Training and possibly moving to Canada
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Training and possibly moving to Canada
Hi there,
I'm a student pilot from the UK, currently studying for my PPL with the intention of becoming a commercial pilot. I'm currently looking into all of the possibilities for gaining my licenses, and the one that I am considering the most at the moment is doing my training in the US and ideally to immigrate and there. However, it seems that it is virtually impossible for a Brit to get US Citizenship, so it's out of the question.
So, this brings me to Canada. How difficult would it be for a Brit to do commercial training in Canada, and once completed to gain Canadian citizenship so that I could live and work in Canada. The reason that I would like to work in Canada is that I see that there are many jobs on light aircraft, which is the kind of flying I would like to start my career with.
Also, what's the employment situation like for newly qualified low hours pilots (under 500tt) in Canada atm?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Cheers,
oxeagle
I'm a student pilot from the UK, currently studying for my PPL with the intention of becoming a commercial pilot. I'm currently looking into all of the possibilities for gaining my licenses, and the one that I am considering the most at the moment is doing my training in the US and ideally to immigrate and there. However, it seems that it is virtually impossible for a Brit to get US Citizenship, so it's out of the question.
So, this brings me to Canada. How difficult would it be for a Brit to do commercial training in Canada, and once completed to gain Canadian citizenship so that I could live and work in Canada. The reason that I would like to work in Canada is that I see that there are many jobs on light aircraft, which is the kind of flying I would like to start my career with.
Also, what's the employment situation like for newly qualified low hours pilots (under 500tt) in Canada atm?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Cheers,
oxeagle
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Hi Adrian,
There are many good FTOs to train at in Canada - you'd first want to narrow down which part of the country you want to be in.
Secondly, you need a Student Visa from the Canadian High Commission in London (not diff to get) to study in Canada on any course longer than 6 months.
If you do CPL and then FI rating you are then entitled to remain in Canada temporarily to work as a FI. Following that you may be entitled to apply for permanent residence if you get a full-time instructing job.
[See Citizenship and Immigration Operations Memorandum VEC E08
Effective January 4, 1999, Foreign students who obtain their commercial pilot's license in Canada and receive offers of employment as flight instructors, may train as instructors and work in Canada for up to one year post training.]
Permanent Residence is a completely different application, which according to the currently published statistics from London, can take between 29 and 44 months to process.
If you get a job offer, which has to be confirmed by Human Resources Canada, you can use that as part of your application towards gaining the number of points (currently 67) you need to qualify as a Skilled Worker.
As long as your employer will support your application, you may be able to get a temporary work permit to allow you to work in Canada during the processing period of your residence application.
Currently this application must be made from outside Canada, though this may change with the possible introduction of a new in-Canada process in 2007.
<http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/study/index.html> will give you the info about studying in Canada.
<http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/index.html> will give you information on the Skilled Worker Programme.
Hope this helps.
Andrew
[Dublin-based Canadian PPL]
There are many good FTOs to train at in Canada - you'd first want to narrow down which part of the country you want to be in.
Secondly, you need a Student Visa from the Canadian High Commission in London (not diff to get) to study in Canada on any course longer than 6 months.
If you do CPL and then FI rating you are then entitled to remain in Canada temporarily to work as a FI. Following that you may be entitled to apply for permanent residence if you get a full-time instructing job.
[See Citizenship and Immigration Operations Memorandum VEC E08
Effective January 4, 1999, Foreign students who obtain their commercial pilot's license in Canada and receive offers of employment as flight instructors, may train as instructors and work in Canada for up to one year post training.]
Permanent Residence is a completely different application, which according to the currently published statistics from London, can take between 29 and 44 months to process.
If you get a job offer, which has to be confirmed by Human Resources Canada, you can use that as part of your application towards gaining the number of points (currently 67) you need to qualify as a Skilled Worker.
As long as your employer will support your application, you may be able to get a temporary work permit to allow you to work in Canada during the processing period of your residence application.
Currently this application must be made from outside Canada, though this may change with the possible introduction of a new in-Canada process in 2007.
<http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/study/index.html> will give you the info about studying in Canada.
<http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/index.html> will give you information on the Skilled Worker Programme.
Hope this helps.
Andrew
[Dublin-based Canadian PPL]
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Are you serious? You are thinking that it's a possibility to get a Canadian passport because you have a pilot's license or am I misunderstanding you? Surely you realise that getting a citizenship involves living, working and positively contributing to that country's society along with a lengthy application process???? 
I can assure you that Canada doesn't have passport lying around that they're willing just to toss out to anyone that wants one! It would be nice and probably not so insulting to people if you had said you want a Canadian citizenship because of what Canada can offer you, life style, quality of life, etc and not a backup to not being eligible for an American passport. Give me a break.
And as for job availabilty - you may want to do a little more research because there are countless well qualified pilots with 1000s of hours still flying around on pistons. Getting into light aircraft flying will involve plenty of time on the dock or loading. If you really want to build some hours after you get your license, try Africa. Knew many people who headed there and had some of the best experiences of their lives, built hours, made crap money but had fun doing it - try Botswana.
I can assure you that Canada doesn't have passport lying around that they're willing just to toss out to anyone that wants one! It would be nice and probably not so insulting to people if you had said you want a Canadian citizenship because of what Canada can offer you, life style, quality of life, etc and not a backup to not being eligible for an American passport. Give me a break.And as for job availabilty - you may want to do a little more research because there are countless well qualified pilots with 1000s of hours still flying around on pistons. Getting into light aircraft flying will involve plenty of time on the dock or loading. If you really want to build some hours after you get your license, try Africa. Knew many people who headed there and had some of the best experiences of their lives, built hours, made crap money but had fun doing it - try Botswana.
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yyzdub,
That seems a rather negative way of looking at someone who may be seriously considering immigrating to Canada.
I agree that there are many pilots in Canada, however the job market is opening up and Immigration Minister Joe Vulpe is very keen to make immigration to Canada much easier, less expensive and much faster - hence his new in-Canada process for any skilled worker who has been in the country for 6 months or more (from 2007).
As I said in my reply to Adrian, the CIC memo about FI training shows the CIC (and therefore presumably HRSDC also) has more than a passing interest in encouraging CPL and FI training for foreign students. Surely that counts as "living, working and positively contributing" to Canadian society.
As someone who lives on both sides of the pond, I do agree with you however, that the best approach to a Canadian is not usually "well, I couldn't get into the US so I thought I'd try Canada." However, factually, it is generally easier to gain Canadian citizenship (67 points, the application fee - even without a job offer - and the processing time for a skilled worker application).
I also know from experience that while the possibility of living and working in the US is generally on the radar of consciousness of people in the UK, the same cannot be said for Canada. The gem that forms the upper half of North America is virtually unknown to the British unless they have family there - even though the Queen is Head of State (let's not go there if it's a sensitive topic).
Hopefully Adrian will do some research and see what Canada has to offer in terms of quality of life as well as flight training.
Andrew
That seems a rather negative way of looking at someone who may be seriously considering immigrating to Canada.
I agree that there are many pilots in Canada, however the job market is opening up and Immigration Minister Joe Vulpe is very keen to make immigration to Canada much easier, less expensive and much faster - hence his new in-Canada process for any skilled worker who has been in the country for 6 months or more (from 2007).
As I said in my reply to Adrian, the CIC memo about FI training shows the CIC (and therefore presumably HRSDC also) has more than a passing interest in encouraging CPL and FI training for foreign students. Surely that counts as "living, working and positively contributing" to Canadian society.
As someone who lives on both sides of the pond, I do agree with you however, that the best approach to a Canadian is not usually "well, I couldn't get into the US so I thought I'd try Canada." However, factually, it is generally easier to gain Canadian citizenship (67 points, the application fee - even without a job offer - and the processing time for a skilled worker application).
I also know from experience that while the possibility of living and working in the US is generally on the radar of consciousness of people in the UK, the same cannot be said for Canada. The gem that forms the upper half of North America is virtually unknown to the British unless they have family there - even though the Queen is Head of State (let's not go there if it's a sensitive topic).
Hopefully Adrian will do some research and see what Canada has to offer in terms of quality of life as well as flight training.
Andrew
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If you apply from the UK though be prepared for an extremely lengthy and often irritating process to become a resident through the skilled worker program. The applications are processed through the London office and the backlog is huge. The process is also staggered and your aviation medical does not count as an immigration medical so be prepared for extra costs.
Obtaining the work visa is straightforward enough (if you can get a job beforehand) but the London office is innundated with applications for residency at present and it takes AGES to get through the system.
You can still apply whilst under a work permit...I am still in Toronto on a work visa...although I applied for residency over 2 and a half years ago. I have a job with NAV Canada..I have full security clearance..I had to do my aviation medical before coming over..plus I am married to a Canadian citizen. You would think that this would be a simple tick box case so I could get my residency!!...Nope...still being processed.
PM me Oxeagle if you need any info on the application process. There are also quite afew Brit controllers living here now who went through lengthy immigration procedures hanging around on the controller forum so if you need info about it just ask there.
Good luck
Obtaining the work visa is straightforward enough (if you can get a job beforehand) but the London office is innundated with applications for residency at present and it takes AGES to get through the system.
You can still apply whilst under a work permit...I am still in Toronto on a work visa...although I applied for residency over 2 and a half years ago. I have a job with NAV Canada..I have full security clearance..I had to do my aviation medical before coming over..plus I am married to a Canadian citizen. You would think that this would be a simple tick box case so I could get my residency!!...Nope...still being processed.
PM me Oxeagle if you need any info on the application process. There are also quite afew Brit controllers living here now who went through lengthy immigration procedures hanging around on the controller forum so if you need info about it just ask there.
Good luck
Joe Volpe is no longer the immigration Minister, at least since the last election. The job prospects in europe are much better, unless you want to work the next 3-5 years for starvation wages, until you get to a major, and then 2 years at 35k/yr then stay where you are. I myself am presently converting the other way to JAR license. Maybe after 11 yrs in the industry, I'll get to fly a jet.
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Ok thanks for your input guys yyzdub, I would not consider moving to a country that I wouldn't like to live in. I happen to quite like Canada; the climate suits me perfect, there are some excellent ski slopes, and a lot of the aviation jobs are light SE or ME aircraft, which as I have already stated that I would like to start my career with. Sure, I could try and get a job in the UK flying turboprops or regional jets, but I would much rather fly a C182, Seneca or something more exotic as its more hand-on flying, more fun.
Thanks for all your help,
Oxeagle
yyzdub, I would not consider moving to a country that I wouldn't like to live in. I happen to quite like Canada; the climate suits me perfect, there are some excellent ski slopes, and a lot of the aviation jobs are light SE or ME aircraft, which as I have already stated that I would like to start my career with. Sure, I could try and get a job in the UK flying turboprops or regional jets, but I would much rather fly a C182, Seneca or something more exotic as its more hand-on flying, more fun. Thanks for all your help,
Oxeagle
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NOT a proud canadian
You want to move to canada? Canada is a beautiful country with great people from coast to coast, but if you value money at all, stay away. I was a 330 captain out of Quebec a few years ago but I was forced to leave because I was living pretty close to the poverty line. My 2002 tax slip said I made $120,000cdn and at the end of the year I had less than $40,000 in my pocket. Good luck!!
Good luck!!
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A proud Canadian!!
Well living in the UK I'm sure you are well aware of what paying taxes is like given that the coast of petrol (gas in Canada) is twice what it is here. Not to mention the cost of a house. Come on over Canada is a great place to live although the winters suck skunk ass.
Now Sec 3, dude I know in Quebec taxes are high but $120'000 and you only had $40'000 in pocket??? You have to be divorced for that to be true!! I made about $95'000 last year in Saskatchewan and still had about $65'000 in my pocket before paying for everything else house, insurance, food etc etc..
Now Sec 3, dude I know in Quebec taxes are high but $120'000 and you only had $40'000 in pocket??? You have to be divorced for that to be true!! I made about $95'000 last year in Saskatchewan and still had about $65'000 in my pocket before paying for everything else house, insurance, food etc etc..
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saudipc-9, you hit the nail on the head ! So if I never see the land of the midnite sun ever again, I won't be sad. I don't know how people can sleep at night getting ripped off every day by the system. I sleep soundly every night now, awaiting my retirement in a place where I get to keep the fruits of my labour instead of having it stolen to give to people too lazy to work for a living.( you guessed it ! ex-wife!)
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YYZDUB said
Really? Have you visited Richmond, BC lately?
YYZDUB!...chill the heck out will ya?! Oxeagle - please understand that Canadians are for the most part very warm, friendly and welcoming!
I have done exactly what you are planning to do. Training over here and gaining your CPL/MEIR is certainly better value for money than it is in Europe. What you need to bear in mind is your hiring potential when you graduaute from Flight School with 250 hours (its very tough to walk into a flying job here, much unlike some of the options you may have in Europe with a JAR licence) and also the demography of the industry. You really do have to work your way up the aviation ladder in Canada and the pay is really quite piss poor until the bigger airlines. Same for working conditions and very often the equipment you fly. Expect to do some instructing (or ramp work - although this is becoming an unattractive option) before moving on to a job flying something like a Piper Navajo etc etc. The good news is that the job market here in Canada is starting to move (finally!)
As for chicks here digging European (read British in this case) accents, I would say not really - at least not out here on the left coast.
I can assure you that Canada doesn't have passport lying around that they're willing just to toss out to anyone that wants one!
It would be nice and probably not so insulting to people if you had said you want a Canadian citizenship because of what Canada can offer you, life style, quality of life, etc and not a backup to not being eligible for an American passport. Give me a break.
I have done exactly what you are planning to do. Training over here and gaining your CPL/MEIR is certainly better value for money than it is in Europe. What you need to bear in mind is your hiring potential when you graduaute from Flight School with 250 hours (its very tough to walk into a flying job here, much unlike some of the options you may have in Europe with a JAR licence) and also the demography of the industry. You really do have to work your way up the aviation ladder in Canada and the pay is really quite piss poor until the bigger airlines. Same for working conditions and very often the equipment you fly. Expect to do some instructing (or ramp work - although this is becoming an unattractive option) before moving on to a job flying something like a Piper Navajo etc etc. The good news is that the job market here in Canada is starting to move (finally!)
As for chicks here digging European (read British in this case) accents, I would say not really - at least not out here on the left coast.
