Jetsgo working conditions?
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Hey guys d ont forget that at JetsGo they give u back the money after 2 years with interest
Anywhere in the world u do not get back your money
So in fact u d ont pay for it BUt it is a way for the Cie to be sure that you will stay there for 2 years
I have seen many pilots in the past joining a Cie to get the JET type then leave some where else a few months after
Anywhere in the world u do not get back your money
So in fact u d ont pay for it BUt it is a way for the Cie to be sure that you will stay there for 2 years
I have seen many pilots in the past joining a Cie to get the JET type then leave some where else a few months after
Anyway...thats a great plan if the company does not fold before your "2 years". However I believe the training bond is useless because in 2 years you won't get enough jet time to be properly marketable and the 'type rating' on a MD88 or F100 is worthless in the industry anyway.
Where else do you find an industry that you have to pay to work?! Pay to work!?! I think it's a sad state of affairs. I believe a hand shake is worth more than a piece of paper. However....I'm a dieing breed I guess.
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To Birdog
I totally agree with u No body should pay for the training. But in Europe , Australia and some Asian Cie it is popular and my point was that Jetgo is better than them because yes if the Cie survive they will get their money back
Been with AT only one year after closure of Nationair and left Canada since 1994
Working in Asia is 100 time better
and I never paid for training except my private and commercial IFR
I totally agree with u No body should pay for the training. But in Europe , Australia and some Asian Cie it is popular and my point was that Jetgo is better than them because yes if the Cie survive they will get their money back
Been with AT only one year after closure of Nationair and left Canada since 1994
Working in Asia is 100 time better
and I never paid for training except my private and commercial IFR
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OK, OK, perhaps I should have used the word "prostitutes" instead of "sluts"....most people get my point.
As for "professionalism" of Canadian pilots....I feel that showing up on your first day of work with a briefcase filled with $30000 damages our "professional" status. I have never seen another industry where people are so quick to bash each other, or step on one another's heads on the way up the ladder. If we stuck together as a group, $30000 training fees wouldn't exist. I understand why people do it...if flying is all you know and you are faced with no other way to feed your family I understand, but Jetsgo is filled with many young kids who's parents pay so they can get their "jet time". The whole thing hurts us all and I think it is too far gone to stop.
BTW, some of you assume too much...just because my handle is c150driver, doesn't mean that I fly one....maybe I fly a C172RG!
As for "professionalism" of Canadian pilots....I feel that showing up on your first day of work with a briefcase filled with $30000 damages our "professional" status. I have never seen another industry where people are so quick to bash each other, or step on one another's heads on the way up the ladder. If we stuck together as a group, $30000 training fees wouldn't exist. I understand why people do it...if flying is all you know and you are faced with no other way to feed your family I understand, but Jetsgo is filled with many young kids who's parents pay so they can get their "jet time". The whole thing hurts us all and I think it is too far gone to stop.
BTW, some of you assume too much...just because my handle is c150driver, doesn't mean that I fly one....maybe I fly a C172RG!
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You know what, I work for Jetsgo, paid my 30K and let me tell you that it was never my plan to pay to get to exercise the pilot's profession. Also, as some have stated above, I am neither a prostitute nor a spoiled kid with rich parents, and I think that after having succesfully completed training in the military and spent 10 years in the Air Force I think I have earned some valuable experience as a pilot and under more normal conditions it is fair to say I could probably have , like a lot of my military friends, landed a job at Air Canada. It was the logical and realistic choice after a career in the Air Force (aka "Air Canada training plan"). But the fact and the matter is one september morning a few years back a couple of guys decided to ram airplanes into buildings and the whole picture changed. If that had not happened chances are I wouldn't be here writing this post.
However, with a family to look after, with a spouse that has a permanent (and non-transferable employment) in Quebec, the only viable option to me one year and a half ago (short of going back in the military) was Jetsgo, 'cause you know I tried everywhere else and somehow I could just not justified to my family going up north flying a twin because that was probaby the only job I could have found post 911, if that.
I would appreciate if the guys on this forum could widen their way of seeing this and not put everybody in the same boat. Have a bigger picture is what I'm trying to say. Sometimes you don't have many choices; it was my case. I am still bitter about it today because my professional pride took a hit the day I gave the money; I've been dedicating myself to aviation for 15 years now and always worked hard at maintaining a high standard; I never thought it would come to this.
I somehow try to see the positive sides of things, as little as they sometimes are. For example, many jobs out there today require a type rating that guys willingly pay, and that costs sometimes up to $30 000. Do you call these guys prostitutes-with-no-pride? Are they destroying our profession? I also was lucky enough to get it the left seat of a 160 pax jet after 6 months as an FO. Not many companies can offer that. 6 months from now I will have all my money back, with interest and roughly 2000 hrs of jet time (from which 1300 or so will be PIC) I didn't have leaving the Air Force (apparently one of the most important thing in an airline pilot resume as I understand since I started my civie- ilot life) So I totally disagree with the person who said an MD83 or Fokker rating is useless. It might not be as sought after as a 737 or Airbus, but certainly not useless. Again, an observation lacking perspective.
Don't think I'm saying Jetsgo is great; it has a long way to go before it can compare to, say, Wesjet. We are below industry average for pay and work conditions for example, but currently are negociating and seeing some improvement. What I'm saying is I will suffer from depression if I don't try and force myself to look at the bright side of things right now.
The pilot profession is in a sad state nowadays, and I somehow just cannot accept that Jetsgo pilots wear this burden of responsibility by having paid 30K. The pilot group did it to itself well before our days. The CEO of Jetsgo in the Royal days for example had guys freshly trained on the A310 leave for Air Canada. Do you think he feels bad today about making pilots pay money to get a position? Hell, even then at one point the company had a few hundred resumes on file. Do you think he has a great deal of respect for pilots now? Have we earned that respect?
Bottom line is Jetsgo is a product of years of pilots always seeking for the greener pastures, coupled with the crisis aviation is trying to emerge from since 911. The pilot group never stood together and I don't think it'll start anytime soon seeing how guys are back-stabbing each other in this forum for example. However, there is a price to pay for such a behavior, and for me that price was $30 000. In the meantime, I have kids to feed and a mortgage to pay, so I did the right thing under the circumstances.
However, with a family to look after, with a spouse that has a permanent (and non-transferable employment) in Quebec, the only viable option to me one year and a half ago (short of going back in the military) was Jetsgo, 'cause you know I tried everywhere else and somehow I could just not justified to my family going up north flying a twin because that was probaby the only job I could have found post 911, if that.
I would appreciate if the guys on this forum could widen their way of seeing this and not put everybody in the same boat. Have a bigger picture is what I'm trying to say. Sometimes you don't have many choices; it was my case. I am still bitter about it today because my professional pride took a hit the day I gave the money; I've been dedicating myself to aviation for 15 years now and always worked hard at maintaining a high standard; I never thought it would come to this.
I somehow try to see the positive sides of things, as little as they sometimes are. For example, many jobs out there today require a type rating that guys willingly pay, and that costs sometimes up to $30 000. Do you call these guys prostitutes-with-no-pride? Are they destroying our profession? I also was lucky enough to get it the left seat of a 160 pax jet after 6 months as an FO. Not many companies can offer that. 6 months from now I will have all my money back, with interest and roughly 2000 hrs of jet time (from which 1300 or so will be PIC) I didn't have leaving the Air Force (apparently one of the most important thing in an airline pilot resume as I understand since I started my civie- ilot life) So I totally disagree with the person who said an MD83 or Fokker rating is useless. It might not be as sought after as a 737 or Airbus, but certainly not useless. Again, an observation lacking perspective.
Don't think I'm saying Jetsgo is great; it has a long way to go before it can compare to, say, Wesjet. We are below industry average for pay and work conditions for example, but currently are negociating and seeing some improvement. What I'm saying is I will suffer from depression if I don't try and force myself to look at the bright side of things right now.
The pilot profession is in a sad state nowadays, and I somehow just cannot accept that Jetsgo pilots wear this burden of responsibility by having paid 30K. The pilot group did it to itself well before our days. The CEO of Jetsgo in the Royal days for example had guys freshly trained on the A310 leave for Air Canada. Do you think he feels bad today about making pilots pay money to get a position? Hell, even then at one point the company had a few hundred resumes on file. Do you think he has a great deal of respect for pilots now? Have we earned that respect?
Bottom line is Jetsgo is a product of years of pilots always seeking for the greener pastures, coupled with the crisis aviation is trying to emerge from since 911. The pilot group never stood together and I don't think it'll start anytime soon seeing how guys are back-stabbing each other in this forum for example. However, there is a price to pay for such a behavior, and for me that price was $30 000. In the meantime, I have kids to feed and a mortgage to pay, so I did the right thing under the circumstances.
Quebecer,
I agree...well said!! The profession is in a pickle down here too. As for the previous comment about the value of MD80 time, you are correct that flight time is flight time and therefore has value. However, in a world where job postings require "...typed, current and XXXX hours in type...", MD80 time isn't nearly as "marketable" as 767/737/A320, etc. Look where the MD80 jobs are...Indonesia, Africa, maybe Taiwan...places you and the family might not want, or be able to go. And, these jobs aren't career positions from the look of them( a career position being everyone's first choice).
I've got 6,000 hours PIC in the MD80 and have been looking for long term employment for over a year....unsuccessfully. This has a bit to do with my ambivalence about overseas employment perhaps but after tracking job postings carefully, the world is, in fact, NOT crying out for MD80 pilots. The airplane is Third World...
I agree...well said!! The profession is in a pickle down here too. As for the previous comment about the value of MD80 time, you are correct that flight time is flight time and therefore has value. However, in a world where job postings require "...typed, current and XXXX hours in type...", MD80 time isn't nearly as "marketable" as 767/737/A320, etc. Look where the MD80 jobs are...Indonesia, Africa, maybe Taiwan...places you and the family might not want, or be able to go. And, these jobs aren't career positions from the look of them( a career position being everyone's first choice).
I've got 6,000 hours PIC in the MD80 and have been looking for long term employment for over a year....unsuccessfully. This has a bit to do with my ambivalence about overseas employment perhaps but after tracking job postings carefully, the world is, in fact, NOT crying out for MD80 pilots. The airplane is Third World...
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johnnyD...why is it so difficult to believe that Jetsgo would quickly upgrade a military pilot with no Jet time...they routinely upgrade Air Georgian B1900 pilots quickly, and they have no jet time.
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why is it so difficult to believe that Jetsgo would quickly upgrade a military pilot with no Jet time...they routinely upgrade Air Georgian B1900 pilots quickly, and they have no jet time.
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I can tell you that the MNTC guys on the line aren't happy with the low time Capt's or F/O's. An ex-colleague of mine in YYZ was telling me he has never done so many hard landing inspections in his career, and he worked on heavies for a while before he worked on SG. These were however on the MD-80, I havn't asked him how the F-100 guys are. Another tech in YUL openly said"it's just a matter of time, that's how they will learn",scary. I hope both these guys are overacting, competion aside I really hope that training and experience are taken into consideration and are carried with vigour. The last thing aviation in Canada needs now is a serious accident or incident.
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While I understand ML's reluctance to train people without an enforceable bond, I think that the manner in which he does it to be completely unacceptable.
Any bank in the country will open an escrow account into which the prospective pilot could put the $ 30 000. The agreement would state the terms under which the money would be paid to Jetsgo. (Pilot leaves of own volition, prorated etc.)
This arrangement would give Jetsgo the protection they need, but with one big difference. If Jetsgo goes "Tango Uniform", the pilot goes to the bank, and picks up the money.
When I proposed this arrangement to them, they declined, saying "that's not the way ML wants to do it".
What are they so afraid of. Makes me think I should be afraid of losing my money.
I sincerely hope that a shortage of experienced pilots with $30000 dries up soon. Maybe they will come to their senses and at least explore the "escrow" option.
Iwould also add that I have a family too, and I think that gambling with $30 000 on a company about which I have NO financial information (private company) would be extremely irresponsible.
Pilots are supposed to exibit responsible behavior, and analyse risks.
Any bank in the country will open an escrow account into which the prospective pilot could put the $ 30 000. The agreement would state the terms under which the money would be paid to Jetsgo. (Pilot leaves of own volition, prorated etc.)
This arrangement would give Jetsgo the protection they need, but with one big difference. If Jetsgo goes "Tango Uniform", the pilot goes to the bank, and picks up the money.
When I proposed this arrangement to them, they declined, saying "that's not the way ML wants to do it".
What are they so afraid of. Makes me think I should be afraid of losing my money.
I sincerely hope that a shortage of experienced pilots with $30000 dries up soon. Maybe they will come to their senses and at least explore the "escrow" option.
Iwould also add that I have a family too, and I think that gambling with $30 000 on a company about which I have NO financial information (private company) would be extremely irresponsible.
Pilots are supposed to exibit responsible behavior, and analyse risks.
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Hey guys what are u talking about
When a pilot is ready to upgrade he has to prove it in the Sim and on the line check
I was upgrade myself as Captain on DC 8 with total jet time of 300 hrs as B737 FO and 300 hrs on DC8
My background was not military and at that time I had about 7000 hours
I really d ont see any problem if the training is done properly
When a pilot is ready to upgrade he has to prove it in the Sim and on the line check
I was upgrade myself as Captain on DC 8 with total jet time of 300 hrs as B737 FO and 300 hrs on DC8
My background was not military and at that time I had about 7000 hours
I really d ont see any problem if the training is done properly
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Has anyone heard the rumours that Jet'sGO will announce flights to Europe this summer. If so I guess we'll see some Beech 1900 guys flying A-310's or 757's real soon. Over an Ocean no less. Scary!
No disrespect to Beech guys but that's one hell of a quick upgrade.
No disrespect to Beech guys but that's one hell of a quick upgrade.
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Quebecer-
Nice speech...but everyone hold on here a frigin' minute. I hate when people use the 'child' card. Guess what...a lot of us have children. A lot of us want to be good parents. A lot of us want to set our children with good examples in life. Also, I hope your excuse to pay 30K was NOT because you got bored with the military?
911 affected us all, my friend. You are no different. I have been displaced from family, friends, and my children...I refuse to pay to work, and where I do work I honour my contract.
When I return home, the values I instill in my children are ones of honour, integrity, loyalty, and the meaning of a promise.
I will not sell out. I will not devalue my principles. That is more important to me and my wife than a trip to McDonald's. Those are the examples we use to make our children better than what we are. Evolution of thought...evolution of people.
As far as M Leblanc being upset about having pilots leave after done their training at Royal...Well a company to pay for it's training of pilots, is the price of doing business!!! Tha excuse that all pilots leave to go to AC after a A310 PPC, yet the salary below anything resembling a third world poverty is shyte...do you wonder why anyone would stay at all?
Heck even you left the military for a reason or another. 15 years was it? You have a good pension my friend...you did not need to contribute to the polluted system that we find our selves in today. You could have waited for the dream job or picked up a turbo prop job in the meantime. Instead I think you went for the 'Big Iron'.
Want to set a good example for your children....don't put them in front of your argument of dire straights.
I am Birddog.
Nice speech...but everyone hold on here a frigin' minute. I hate when people use the 'child' card. Guess what...a lot of us have children. A lot of us want to be good parents. A lot of us want to set our children with good examples in life. Also, I hope your excuse to pay 30K was NOT because you got bored with the military?
911 affected us all, my friend. You are no different. I have been displaced from family, friends, and my children...I refuse to pay to work, and where I do work I honour my contract.
When I return home, the values I instill in my children are ones of honour, integrity, loyalty, and the meaning of a promise.
I will not sell out. I will not devalue my principles. That is more important to me and my wife than a trip to McDonald's. Those are the examples we use to make our children better than what we are. Evolution of thought...evolution of people.
As far as M Leblanc being upset about having pilots leave after done their training at Royal...Well a company to pay for it's training of pilots, is the price of doing business!!! Tha excuse that all pilots leave to go to AC after a A310 PPC, yet the salary below anything resembling a third world poverty is shyte...do you wonder why anyone would stay at all?
Heck even you left the military for a reason or another. 15 years was it? You have a good pension my friend...you did not need to contribute to the polluted system that we find our selves in today. You could have waited for the dream job or picked up a turbo prop job in the meantime. Instead I think you went for the 'Big Iron'.
Want to set a good example for your children....don't put them in front of your argument of dire straights.
I am Birddog.
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bezerker-I wonder how much the 'big picture' will change if AC follows through on it's rumoured plans to blacklist Jetsgo pilots.
I hope not. I don't think that is right. Just as much as WestJet is rumoured to post pilot applicant resumes on a billboard for possible hire or blacklisting for one of the final phases of the process.