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Considering all the above and the fact that our superannuation is calculated from our base salary and not our total income, do the 10 extra days off per year really warrant a 'yes' vote?? |
realistic
what you or i individually think as realistic is academic
what matters is what we as a group think is realistic a collective vote decides majority rules IR law makers handed over the decision to each workforce to make final decision on whether work agreements up for offer are accepted or not so it comes down to a collective decision best our workgroup is surveyed accurately and fairly then :p otherwise people department will never know what we as a collective will and wont accept as a fair go fairness might start with 28 day rosters equalling maximum of 130 ordinary hours -ordinary hrs as per FAAA AVL notice- gives them 25 extra hrs a year which when costed out is worth approx $500 average per cc pa a fair go would have to include backpay to september because we have worked hard to keep company up there since our last payrise the lesser of two evils would be lower pay for newbies but AVL rates should be same for every cc and same for every cs and based on the higher rate so that newbies not overused as cheaper inhumane option thats at least worth 3.6% right there and no more if they still want us to have a mix of flying and AVL they have to give us 10 days off each roster anyway its not a bonus or a valid vote buyer |
Duty Hour Penalty
If they want us to work more hours, fine, but there needs to be more incentive to do so.
I came accross this in the Qantas Domestic pty ltd agreement. For those not familiar, Qantas Domestic pty ltd is the new company that Qantas has established to employ Flight Attendants on lesser wages etc that it's current staff employed directly through the airline. If they can manage to have somehthing like the following, surely we can. Something like this would make me look twice at what they're currently offering. Duty hour penalty (DHP) 20.5.1. In addition to the base salary, flight attendants must be paid the following duty hour penalty (DHP) per hour, in accordance with the following fomula, depending on the time and day of their dty. The amount is calculated by multiplying the dollar value for a point by the number of points. TIME MON TUE WED THUR FRI PH/SA SUN 0001 – 0500 6 6 6 6 6 9 9 0501 – 1500 1 1 1 1 1 7 7 1501 – 1900 5 5 5 5 5 7 7 1901 – 2200 5 5 5 5 7 9 9 2201 – 2400 6 6 6 6 9 9 9 20.5.2. Points are allocated to bands for duty to achieve a special payment scheme for unsociable hours, weekend days, and Company approved public holidays. 1 point is equal to $1. |
Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd was not made to cheapen the Qantas Short Haul work force. If you actually compared the Qantas Short Haul EBA7 and the Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd, its very similar and you'll see that the base pay of Qantas Domestic cabin crew is actually significantly higher than EBA7 crew. The reason why Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd was created was to create a more flexible workforce which suits the business and the employee through the potential uncertain economic conditions.
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Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd was not made to cheapen the Qantas Short Haul work force. If you actually compared the Qantas Short Haul EBA7 and the Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd, its very similar and you'll see that the base pay of Qantas Domestic cabin crew is actually significantly higher than EBA7 crew. The reason why Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd was created was to create a more flexible workforce which suits the business and the employee through the potential uncertain economic conditions. |
But, taking into account the QD basic pay is a lot less than DJ basic pay, right??? 35k vs what, 40 or 45???
Plus we don't get paid for every hour on reserve, it's a 1 in 4 unless called out in which case you get paid for each hour actually worked. |
But, taking into account the QD basic pay is a lot less than DJ basic pay, right??? 35k vs what, 40 or 45??? Plus we don't get paid for every hour on reserve, it's a 1 in 4 unless called out in which case you get paid for each hour actually worked I was putting forward what I thought was a good idea that Virgin Blue should be considering as part of the current EBA proposals, which as it stands is all take and not a lot of give. Which is why I think a Duty Hour Penalty would be a way for them to give us something, in return of us giving them more hours and flexibility etc etc. |
Duty hour penalty (DHP)
i called for a price check on this item
we have penalty for this in our salary already :bored: our base salary is $35611 thats around $3500 pa approximately it could work in both our favours to switch to DHP |
we have penalty for this in our salary already http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/wbored.gif our base salary is $35611 thats around $3500 pa approximately it could work in both our favours to switch to DHP The Duty Hour Penaly (DHP) is another payment for working unsociable hours, weekends etc. So you would receive this depending on the times of your duties, i.e earlies, lates, BOC etc... |
Just spoke to two mates from Virgin Blue, and they, like myself, seem to think the base is around the $46000 mark? The EBA that states our base is $36000 is the 2002 EBA. For example. the salary in 2005 was around $43000 but now its around $46000 and was proposed to be up around $48000 at the roadshows was it not? If the base is, as you say, around $35000, then I for one am making nearly $30000 per annum in allowances (including monthly commission payments)! Of course we could be wrong as we could be reading it all incorrectly (eg: it does include allowances in this sum so perhaps some people exclude this in their reading) but clarification for all would be awesome. In addition for QD being not cheaper than existing staff at QF and having a higher base pay, they do not receive certain allowances so wouldn't this effect this difference? I guess this will sort itself out once the wages come through the bank! Apart from the obvious flaws (flexibility), the money side of this deal doesn't sound bad at all... considering some of QF's latest offerings. |
These are current salary figures as taken from the roadshow:
CC1 Base: 34,461 DTA: 6,435 Grooming: 1,290 Misc Expenses: 3,102 Total: 45,788 CC2 Base: 35,611 DTA: 6,435 Grooming: 1,290 Misc Expenses: 3,102 Total: 46, 438 CS Base: 43,368 DTA: 6,435 Grooming: 1,290 Misc Expenses: 3,102 Total: 54,195 Super is only paid on the base salary, not on the total. The rest of our income consists of untaxed overnight allowances, overtime paid for any duty extending beyond 9 hours per day, income for AVL days, catering commission, draft payments and supp payments for missed breaks - which many of us do not receive. Currently, the overtime, overnight allowance, AVL and draft income is at risk. Currently, crewing do not have a huge choice of crew to utilise on APT and AVL during disruptions. The restructure would give them greater choice and they will be calling crew with the lowest hours to avoid paying more than necessary. Do not be fooled into thinking otherwise as crewing have KPIs to meet as well. Consider the saving and productivity gain by removing L2X, the countless hours of unpaid supp payments that the company is currently saving due to the supp forms that aren't submitted or are rejected that we can't track. Using a VERY conservative estimate of just 2 hours of unpaid supp payments per crew member, per week: 2hrs * 46 wks * 1,500 crew * $10.60 = $1,462,800 That is already a $1.46 million dollar amount that is already been saved on unpaid supp payments! This amount of free-labour isn't currently being considered as part of their wage expense but they neglect to mention this in any of their figures. Have they looked at the over-inflated micro-management structure consisting of development managers, cabin crew operational support, service-flow analysts and review teams? Have they considered moving some of these resources back into flying? Have they considered negotiating the current AVL structure with the Union and possibly offering a salary increase and only paying overtime rates after a minimum amount of rostered hours have been worked and allowing us the choice to decline the overtime after another limit? This is more aligned with the concept of bargaining than what is currently being offered. We do not have an obligation to vote away current conditions simply because other airlines are offering their crew less than what we are currently earning. Read the emails from the FAAA posted in this thread regarding the management spin and AVL days and why the current structure was negotiated, do the sums and make an informed decision. DO NOT feel guilty for valuing your exchange of labour at the current salary level, after all, they thought we were worth this much 7 years ago - why do they think we're worth less now? := |
DJCCGuy
times your base set out in vb_girls figures by 10% this is the price of your current DHP or ILS CC2 = $3,561.10 to get DHP we might have to bargain one against the other thats apparently what was done to get DHP aka band payments clever because that way those who do the unsociables get the reward theres more incentive for turning up to shifts when your friends are out smart bidding options steer the unsociables to those who want them thats the way most companies operate Duty Hour Shift Penalties not In Lieu of Shift penalties vb should seriously consider in their proposal |
Currently, crewing do not have a huge choice of crew to utilise on APT and AVL during disruptions. The restructure would give them greater choice and they will be calling crew with the lowest hours to avoid paying more than necessary. Do not be fooled into thinking otherwise as crewing have KPIs to meet as well. Remember 28 day rosters are coming regardless of this EBA outcome. I heard it at the roadshow and its on the intranet, as a statement, in the 'questions and answers' section under the EBA section. We do not have an obligation to vote away current conditions simply because other airlines are offering their crew less than what we are currently earning. Thanks for clearing the base pay question. Good posts everyone :ok: |
Firstly we get paid, inclusive "a 10% payment in lieu of shift penalty 14 (e)" from the current EBA. Now this compared to guest services penalties of different shifts, days of the week, and public holidays isnt that much. I would hazard a guess and say the true rate should be more like 25% at minimum. It would also be a nightmare to keep track of personally and people would probably still end up missing out on payments.
-- Remember 28 day rosters are coming regardless of this EBA outcome. I heard it at the roadshow and its on the intranet, as a statement, in the 'questions and answers' section under the EBA section. -- Superannuation is covered by the Federal Govt. 9% is the current amount that has to be paid by VB. They dont pay super on overnights but I am sure they would have to pay it on everything else. Will check my payslip. -- BG was issued 331,661 fully paid shares late last year as a bonus 2007/08 current value over $100,000. He performance for 08/09 could see a maximum of 1,600,000 shares provided he meets his targets. He currently holds nearly 30,000,000 shares in VBA. Current value $9.3 mill. I wonder what sort of a pay rise that was for him. If he earns $2mill a year then it was 5%. Where is our payrise? -- I encourage everyone to join the FAAA. At least we will show them we are united. Last EBA membership was over 80% this time lets get it to 90% so if the company want to "bring it on" then we will be together. |
railroading survey...
best our workgroup is surveyed accurately and fairly then EBA Survey #2 - Post EBA Roadshow Page 1 EBA Survey Page 1 of 3 This EBA Survey is anonymous. It is important we develop a new Agreement through a process which ensures that your views are accurately represented so your honest feedback is appreciated. In the EBA Roadshow you heard about the proposed new agreement including proposed changes and benefits. In particular, we discussed 3 options. This survey focuses primarily on Options B & C as Option A does not fulfill the double digit productivity we require as we covered off in the roadshow. At the end of this survey, there is a free text field so you can provide any additional comments. *1. Please select your base --Please Select-- Melbourne Brisbane Sydney *2. Please select your workgroup --Please Select-- Cabin Crew Cabin Supervisor *3. Please select your type of work --Please Select-- Full Time Part Time Please select the statement for each of the questions below that best reflects your opinion *4. Under Option B, it is proposed we move to maximum daily hours of 10h15min in a 28 day roster period with an average of 140 hours in a roster period
I would prefer rostered maximum daily hours of:
*9. Under the proposed changes to available days you will only be paid EXTRA monies for time worked on available days where you have worked over 140 hours in a roster period
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Survey Cont....(pages 2 and 3.)
Page 2 EBA Survey
Page 2 of 3 *16. It is proposed to reduce sick leave for new starters only in year 1 from 26 to 21 days (This only applies to crew who join Virgin Blue after the new EBA is implemented) I would be willing to accept this option I would not be willing to accept this option *17. It is proposed to reduce sick leave with all days cumulative (no differentiation between sick day and URTI day). Please select your preferred option. I would be willing to accept a reduction in sick leave to 16 days I would be willing to accept a reduction in sick leave to 17 days I would be willing to accept a reduction in sick leave to 18 days I would not be willing to accept a reduction in sick leave *18. If sick leave is reduced, it is proposed to change the requirement for a medical certificate ie you will only require a medical certificate for absences over 1 day I am willing to accept this change I am not willing to accept this change *19. After hearing about the proposed changes to available day payments, which of the following statements supports your views on makeup of rosters? (Note: bids for days off, early starts and late starts will still apply) I would like rosters made up of a mixture of flying, airport reserve and available days I would prefer a full standby roster (full standby roster comprises airport reserve and available days) *20. I would be prepared to work an 11 hour day with 11 days off... If my pay was increased by 4% If my pay was increased by 4.5% If my pay was increased by 5% I would not be prepared to work an 11 hour day with 11 days off *21. I would be prepared to accept a pay rise of only 2% - 2.5% if I could keep my maximum daily hours at 9hrs 45mins and my rostered hours at 140hrs with 9.2 days off in a 28 day roster Yes No 22. If you are currently Part Time or interested in taking up Part Time in the next 3 years select the Part Time rostering arrangement that would best suit your needs A range of hours eg between 70 and 84 hours A range of days eg between 8 and 12 days 23. Please select the maximum number of days in a 28 day roster that you want to work under a Part Time arrangement (you will still need to fulfil 70 hours duty) 8 days 9 days 10 days 11 days More than 11 days *24. It is proposed we replace the overnight allowance with a Trip Allowance of between $3.00 - $3.30. The allowance would be payable from sign on in home base to sign off in home base and on both day trips and overnights. The Trip allowance would continue to be tax free on overnights. I would be willing to accept this option I would not be willing to accept this option I would prefer to stay with the current overnight allowance *25. Would you be willing to accept a trip allowance higher than the proposed $3.00 - $3.30 if it was ONLY paid on overnights and not on day trips I would be willing to accept a higher trip allowance if it was paid ONLY on overnights I would be willing to accept a trip allowance if it wasn't paid on day trips just a note on these two options- isn't a and b the same answer essentially, there fore no real choice??? .. as with most of the q. in this survey. how about a 3rd option that says I would be willing to accept a trip allowance if it was higher- at a rate at least fair, ie $4.50+ and paid on all duty".... or a forth option... "NO." oh and FYI you have to select an option to be able to move on to the next question!! *26. It is proposed to increase unpaid parental leave up to 18 months (currently 12) with the added ability to return to work as Part Time crew for up to 3 months. Does this have value to you? Yes, I would be interested in returning to work as Part Time crew for up to 3 months No, I would not be interested in the Part Time option when I return to work This does not affect me *27. If the agreement was based on Option C as presented in the EBA Roadshow eg 28 day roster, average of 150 hours, maximum daily hours of 11hrs and 11 days off), how would you vote? Yes No ......BIG NO:= *28. If the agreement was based on Option B as presented in the EBA Roadshow eg 28 day roster, average of 140 hours, maximum daily hours of 10hrs15mins and 10 days off), how would you vote? Yes No .....BIG FAT NO:= *29. Of the following proposed changes please select the change that is MOST important to you: --Please Select-- Roster period -Roster hours Daily hours -Available Days -Overtime -Rest- Sick Leave -Standby rosters 30. Please provide reason for your answer above *31. Of the following proposed changes please select the change that is LEAST important to you: --Please Select-- Roster period -Roster hours Daily hours -Available Days -Overtime -Rest- Sick Leave -Standby rosters 32. Please provide reason for your answer above (comment box... one of these should be attached to every set of anwers, so you can wirte your own instead of forcefully selecting an option of the lesser evil to be able to move on the next next question.) *and* for the record it's all important to me. *33. Of the following proposed benefits please select the benefit that is MOST important to you --Please Select-- More Days Off -Part Time -Trip Allowance -No Drafting -Increase in salary 34. Please provide reason for your answer above (comment box) *35. Of the following proposed benefits please select the benefit that is LEAST important to you: --Please Select-- More Days Off -Part Time- Trip Allowance- No Drafting- Increase in salary 36. Please provide reason for your answer above 37. Please provide any additional comments you have here about the information you learnt in the EBA Roadshow This survey is powered by Survey Software - Online Survey Software ? Web Survey Software Certified Anonymous Survey - Learn More SurveyMethods.com Certified Anonymous Survey. What is a SurveyMethods.com Certified Anonymous Survey? This means that your email id and IP address associated with your survey response are not visible to the administrator of this survey. Can the survey administrator revert this survey to a non-anonymous survey? No. Once a survey is set to be anonymous it can not be reverted to a non-anonymous survey, hence protecting the anonymity of survey respondents Hope this is useful for everyone on this forum - please keep up the feedback so those out there who don't fully understand the changes demanded in the proposed EBA can gain general insight to the matter. And so management and FAAA can gauge what we really want, or more so what we really dont want! |
Keep in mind that Virgin is not the 'budget' airline it was last time the EBA was negotiated.
Every day they introduce a new 'initiative'. Think of all the extra work you personally have to do in relation to Live2Air, Premium Economy, and Velocity golds, and the removal of L2X. Those few moments of peace you had in the past have been stolen, and replaced with time spent dealing with extra complaints and problem televisions, or providing extra service and attention to the folk the airline is relying on to help it ride the economic storm (golds and premium). You ARE working harder, you ARE working more, and all this is within the constraints of the current EBA. |
"*25. Would you be willing to accept a trip allowance higher than the proposed $3.00 - $3.30 if it was ONLY paid on overnights and not on day trips
I would be willing to accept a higher trip allowance if it was paid ONLY on overnights I would be willing to accept a trip allowance if it wasn't paid on day trips just a note on these two options- isn't a and b the same answer essentially, there fore no real choice??? .. as with most of the q. in this survey. how about a 3rd option that says I would be willing to accept a trip allowance if it was higher- at a rate at least fair, ie $4.50+ and paid on all duty".... or a forth option... "NO." oh and FYI you have to select an option to be able to move on to the next question!!" EBA babylon I couldnt agree more, that is exactly what i thought when filling this out. The survey is rigged, we are forced to choose an answer where they can now go and say "look crew all agreed to accept a trip allowance only on o/n not on day trips".... ONLY because we didn't have any other damned option!!!!! :ugh: This makes me really angry, why should we give up our current conditions for NO real benefits. :ugh: |
That survey is so biased....!
All I can suggest is you copy the sections which force an undesirable answer into the final comments box and tell them what you REALLY think :E Or is there a limit on number of characters???? |
All crew members should band together and not bother to respond to the survey. What has been offered is an absolute insult to all VB cabin crew. It's all take and no give. If they do not get any response, they might finally get the impression we are not interested in their ludicrous proposals!:eek:
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