Qf LONGHAUL
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Hi Galley Hag,
Conversion from a fixed term contract to a full time permanent position is (and has been) considered external recruitment, when referring to career progression.
(Thank heavens!)
However, in saying that, will 3 year contracts EVER be introduced at all? Lets not forget that doing so won't be as simple as Geoff seems to think.....a bit of media propaganda then POW just hit us with it. I dont think it will be that easy, the Flight Attendants will want to play hard ball, too.
If the company is able to introduce these so called contracts, will these contracts EVER be converted? They may just be rolling contracts up for renewal upon completion. How do the new hires feel about that?
Conversion from a fixed term contract to a full time permanent position is (and has been) considered external recruitment, when referring to career progression.
(Thank heavens!)
However, in saying that, will 3 year contracts EVER be introduced at all? Lets not forget that doing so won't be as simple as Geoff seems to think.....a bit of media propaganda then POW just hit us with it. I dont think it will be that easy, the Flight Attendants will want to play hard ball, too.
If the company is able to introduce these so called contracts, will these contracts EVER be converted? They may just be rolling contracts up for renewal upon completion. How do the new hires feel about that?
Last edited by Qwannas; 12th Jul 2003 at 09:32.
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Mr Seatback 2
I was sticking to the clear facts and the facts were that the FAAA was fully aware of QF's plans in terms of future employment but this information was at no time passed onto EAA crew before voting. EAA used the threat of career progression numbers to get it over the line my point was that EAA crew should have had this information before the vote not 2 days after the EBA was voted up which was the case.
Qwannas
Conversion of fixed term to permanent within QF does not and has not activated career progression just ask anyone at EAA at the top who if that was the case as you say would have been at QF long ago. The document is very clear permanent external recruitment the conversion of fixed term to permanent does not activate progression.
I think we should now get back to the topic of Long Haul.
I was sticking to the clear facts and the facts were that the FAAA was fully aware of QF's plans in terms of future employment but this information was at no time passed onto EAA crew before voting. EAA used the threat of career progression numbers to get it over the line my point was that EAA crew should have had this information before the vote not 2 days after the EBA was voted up which was the case.
Qwannas
Conversion of fixed term to permanent within QF does not and has not activated career progression just ask anyone at EAA at the top who if that was the case as you say would have been at QF long ago. The document is very clear permanent external recruitment the conversion of fixed term to permanent does not activate progression.
I think we should now get back to the topic of Long Haul.
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Galley Hag,
Yes, I have read the Career Progression Document.
Conversion from a contract position to a full time permanent position is definately considered as external employment. It does impact on Progression and has so in the past. Just ask anyone at your local FAAA Office.
A situation was explained to me like this...
For example, when Ansett collapsed, QF did a mass recruitment of Short Haul FA's - all contract. Unfortunately, during that same six months they did not hire any Full Time Permanent's - thus no Career Progression from the Regionals (as per the agreement). When these contracts lapsed, they all lapsed at the same time and were all converted into Full Time Permanent positions - Recruitment HAD occured (at an enormous rate) but all at once and all in the same six months. So therefore, only one ground school (as per the agreement) progressed to Short Haul. It seemed a shame and very frustrating to the Regional Flight Attendants (and quite difficult to follow, due to the delays of the ground schools) - but it was all done by the book! I could go into other exampes of contracts to full time being considered external recruitment, but it is getting off the track of this topic!!
It is just one of the reasons why the FA's at the top of the list for BOTH Eastern and Sunstate are still there.
And yes, agreed - back to the top of the page!
Yes, I have read the Career Progression Document.
Conversion from a contract position to a full time permanent position is definately considered as external employment. It does impact on Progression and has so in the past. Just ask anyone at your local FAAA Office.
A situation was explained to me like this...
For example, when Ansett collapsed, QF did a mass recruitment of Short Haul FA's - all contract. Unfortunately, during that same six months they did not hire any Full Time Permanent's - thus no Career Progression from the Regionals (as per the agreement). When these contracts lapsed, they all lapsed at the same time and were all converted into Full Time Permanent positions - Recruitment HAD occured (at an enormous rate) but all at once and all in the same six months. So therefore, only one ground school (as per the agreement) progressed to Short Haul. It seemed a shame and very frustrating to the Regional Flight Attendants (and quite difficult to follow, due to the delays of the ground schools) - but it was all done by the book! I could go into other exampes of contracts to full time being considered external recruitment, but it is getting off the track of this topic!!
It is just one of the reasons why the FA's at the top of the list for BOTH Eastern and Sunstate are still there.
And yes, agreed - back to the top of the page!
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Just dragging this topic of the track for a brief moment..
Does anyone know how I can get a copy of the CP documentation? Do I contact the FAAA. Or should it be around our crew room some where?
I'd like to read it, so I know what is and what is not correct. It's a topic that so many seem to have so many different ideas on.
If anyone has a copy on mail, just Pm me and I will let you know my email address, so it can be sent to me.
Thanks in advance
Does anyone know how I can get a copy of the CP documentation? Do I contact the FAAA. Or should it be around our crew room some where?I'd like to read it, so I know what is and what is not correct. It's a topic that so many seem to have so many different ideas on.
If anyone has a copy on mail, just Pm me and I will let you know my email address, so it can be sent to me.
Thanks in advance
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Gosh, after reading all of that I've forgotten the main topic!
Trying to get back to it...... apart from QF contacting waitlisters with the 3 yr contract offer will they being doing an external recruitment drive as well?
Plus...one more question.....
if they do.....will QF be dropping the height limit to 160cm as previously mentioned (ages ago on Pprune) and will recruitment be for language speakers only?
Cheers
Trying to get back to it...... apart from QF contacting waitlisters with the 3 yr contract offer will they being doing an external recruitment drive as well?
Plus...one more question.....
if they do.....will QF be dropping the height limit to 160cm as previously mentioned (ages ago on Pprune) and will recruitment be for language speakers only?
Cheers
Last edited by vdd; 13th Jul 2003 at 19:00.
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Errrr.....if the height requirement drops, it drops for EVERYONE. Their reasoning is for safety and that's why it's 163cm.
I can't see it being dropped, would open up a can of worms. What about all thos people rejected purely because of height?
I can't see it being dropped, would open up a can of worms. What about all thos people rejected purely because of height?
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I know fixed term contract longhaul f/a's who lost their jobs at the end of their contracts. I believe there are no fixed term contracts at shorthaul. Casuals seem to be the way Qantas have headed. Qantas are trying to cut 1 billion from the operating costs, I'd be surprised to recruitment this year at mainline. Australian Airlines and Jet Connect will be picking up more work.
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I'd be interested to know the 'source' of the recruitment rumour.
QF have just cancelled all L/H & S/H promotions due to an excess of crew and not enough people taking redundancies.
If no-one goes 'up' and they are still overstaffed: why would they recruit?
Crew are being forced to take their annual leave, long service leave is being assigned, part-time and Leave Without Pay are being allocated to virtually anyone that asks...
Doesn't seem like a prime time to be recruiting to me!
QF have just cancelled all L/H & S/H promotions due to an excess of crew and not enough people taking redundancies.
If no-one goes 'up' and they are still overstaffed: why would they recruit?
Crew are being forced to take their annual leave, long service leave is being assigned, part-time and Leave Without Pay are being allocated to virtually anyone that asks...
Doesn't seem like a prime time to be recruiting to me!
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I dont really know what this means but a friend of mine who has been on the waitlist for over 12 months is being interviewed in Sydney tomorrow. I read his letter which basically said they (QF) wanted to have a general discussion before his waitlist is extended. Im assuming that because he has been on the waitlist for so long that they want to make sure he still fits their requirements before extending his waitlist position.
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Now, just a question....
Without causing an all-out-war guys, I would be very interested to know people's opinions on the matter of current F/A's who may be full-time with an airline (specifically DJ or Impulse) being offered one of these 3 yr contracts with QF LH. Would it in your opinion, be worth giving up these permanent possies for a 3 yr contract with the possibility of permanency, or do they say no thanks to QF and maybe say bye-bye to their shortlisting and to the time and effort they put into the whole interview process????
Mmmmm.....food for thought......
Mmmmm.....food for thought......
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My choice is to stay with any employer that has given me permanent flying.
Who wants to live on the edge for 3 years, not knowing if you will have work after that. I ould not be able to stand the thought of not being able to plan for the future, no morgages, no car loans ect.
My advise is to not take contract work, unless you are fully prepared to be out of work at the end of it. I have seen this happen to many LH FA's.
Who wants to live on the edge for 3 years, not knowing if you will have work after that. I ould not be able to stand the thought of not being able to plan for the future, no morgages, no car loans ect.
My advise is to not take contract work, unless you are fully prepared to be out of work at the end of it. I have seen this happen to many LH FA's.
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Thanks Galleyhag,good to hear that others are also going through same process who are not MAM,easy to get paranoid and read into these things far too much when you don't know what is going on...
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qf stuff
cani just say one thing? without anyone getting all nasty...If QF was to offer you a 3 year contract wouldnt u take it?
Im sure there are plenty of ex ansett flighties that would love the opportunity to fly again. So what if QF are not offering permanent positions, unfortunately its a bad time in aviation. Everyone should feel lucky that they are even going to offer some positions...there are literally 1000's of candidates out there who would jump at the opportunity
just my 2 cents worth, seeing it from a different angle...i dont want to start a war!
cheeersssssss
Im sure there are plenty of ex ansett flighties that would love the opportunity to fly again. So what if QF are not offering permanent positions, unfortunately its a bad time in aviation. Everyone should feel lucky that they are even going to offer some positions...there are literally 1000's of candidates out there who would jump at the opportunity
just my 2 cents worth, seeing it from a different angle...i dont want to start a war!
cheeersssssss
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Nick,
I don't think that the contract is an issue per se if you are no longer employed in aviation - I think the question is rather- would you give up a fulltime position with another carrier, or a QF subsidiary, for the dubious possibility of full time employment at the end of your contract (something which has no guarantees)?
Perhaps better to wait for career progression and retain your years of service for LSL purposes (assuming that is an option).
Certainly if you are in it for a few years of excitement & then on to greener pastures, a contract is the way to go. But, if you want a career, or a mortgage, or security of sorts, then probably it would not suit.
I don't think that the contract is an issue per se if you are no longer employed in aviation - I think the question is rather- would you give up a fulltime position with another carrier, or a QF subsidiary, for the dubious possibility of full time employment at the end of your contract (something which has no guarantees)?
Perhaps better to wait for career progression and retain your years of service for LSL purposes (assuming that is an option).
Certainly if you are in it for a few years of excitement & then on to greener pastures, a contract is the way to go. But, if you want a career, or a mortgage, or security of sorts, then probably it would not suit.
