Qf LONGHAUL
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Alotta do you mean that you heard they will be calling people from the current wait lists? Or are they going to hold another round of interviews for externals? Do you know if they will be offering permanent positions? Melb, Perth or Syd base?
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Can anyone from Qantas shed a bit more light on this?
Will it be a similar recruitment round as per last Dec 2002 or just bringing in the short listers?
I hope it's both! Would love to have the opportunity to try getting in again .
Will it be a similar recruitment round as per last Dec 2002 or just bringing in the short listers?
I hope it's both! Would love to have the opportunity to try getting in again .
Me thinks it's Alotta bs
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Actually it's ALOTTA truth!! Comes from THE source, believe it, they are recruiting in December, has to advertise internal first and then outside if that is what they are doing.
Not just hearsay folks!!:
Not just hearsay folks!!:
Join Date: Jan 2003
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I have also heard that it will be the end of the year but I highly doubt they will be interviewing internals as the only time they do this is when they have permanent positions available and it has been made VERY VERY clear that there will be no further permanent recruitment at this stage with the company is trying to reduce costs check out the other forum which has the BRW articles on this issue. I heard from a PDM (which you take with a grain of salt I know) that future employment will be via labour hire companies such as MAM and recruitment undertaken through QF.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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3 year contracts
3 year contracts for new starters.
Alotta the source was talking about the recruitment of cabin crew interviewers. This has been on hold since January 2003. We have 400 people on the waiting list, they will be offered contracts like the 1999 recruitment people. They are known as "fixed termers" but will have a 3 year fixed term. I think this is better than nothing.
Alotta the source was talking about the recruitment of cabin crew interviewers. This has been on hold since January 2003. We have 400 people on the waiting list, they will be offered contracts like the 1999 recruitment people. They are known as "fixed termers" but will have a 3 year fixed term. I think this is better than nothing.
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Not if you're already a permanent, full time Flight Attendant with a QF subsidiary (Eastern, Sunnies and the Pulse).
If I were ever asked to become a 3 year fixed termer, I'd politely decline the offer. I don't do 3 year long interviews.
I'll get there by progression if I'm not offered full time - might take me a while, but at least I'd be permanent. No guarantee of that as a fixed termer.
And I should know - we have a few former fixed termers working with us.
If I were ever asked to become a 3 year fixed termer, I'd politely decline the offer. I don't do 3 year long interviews.
I'll get there by progression if I'm not offered full time - might take me a while, but at least I'd be permanent. No guarantee of that as a fixed termer.
And I should know - we have a few former fixed termers working with us.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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3 year contracts? No thankyou. 
I will be staying with Qantaslink and waiting for progression. As Mr Seatback wrote, it may take longer but at least we will be there on a permanent basis, and have 4 or 5 years seniority behind us. And we all know how important seniority is in the real world!
It's really quiet dissapointing that we can not be offered something more stable.
It will be interesting to see how many people actually decline the job offer. I know of about 8 that definatley will.
I will be staying with Qantaslink and waiting for progression. As Mr Seatback wrote, it may take longer but at least we will be there on a permanent basis, and have 4 or 5 years seniority behind us. And we all know how important seniority is in the real world!
It's really quiet dissapointing that we can not be offered something more stable.
It will be interesting to see how many people actually decline the job offer. I know of about 8 that definatley will.
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Peanut Pusher I am within The source too and it was made clear they are recruiting LH Crew. I know how many are on the waiting list and the stage they are at there but I think ANY airline movement is good news. 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I second the comments of cloud 9 and Mr Seatback 2 !
No way are we going to accept cheap and skanky 3 year contracts from an employer that we are trying to make a career with - NO WAY.
Qantaslink staff are the future CSS's and CSM's of the flying kangaroo and there is no way I and I dare say others are going to accept a contract over permanent employment and then be told we are ineligible to apply to become a CSM because we are only contract workers.
No way are we going to accept cheap and skanky 3 year contracts from an employer that we are trying to make a career with - NO WAY.
Qantaslink staff are the future CSS's and CSM's of the flying kangaroo and there is no way I and I dare say others are going to accept a contract over permanent employment and then be told we are ineligible to apply to become a CSM because we are only contract workers.
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I totally agree I wouldnt be leaving the security of a permanent position with QFlink for a 3 year contract.
However, as all QFLink crew SHOULD be aware progression ONLY occurs when x amount of external applicants are recruited into permanent positions.
Progression does not and has not occured when fixed term crew are recruited, furthermore if fixed term crew are converted to permanent positions after their contracts expire which did occur in short haul for some fixed termers this is NOT regarded under the terms of the progression document as external recruitment therefore no progression.
The only time progression will occur is when QF advertise and place people off the street into permanent positions. For example if 50 of the people on the current waitlist are given permanent positions in short haul progression will occur.
Now we all know this is highly unlikely so, you have to think about your future, taking into consideration the current climate at QF in terms of the way people are employed in the future.
If Qantas recruits year in year out and puts people onto contracts NO progression will occur even if after 3 years they convert them to permanent this does not activate progression as stated above. So you maybe at QFLink much longer than the current 4-5 years.
In particular EAA crew should have been made aware by the FAAA that this was the intention of Qantas before they voted for the second time on their EBA with the threat of progression over their head. The FAAA knew full well that this was QF's intention but did not pass this vital piece of information onto you before voting.
I do have a question though how is putting people on 3 year contracts going to be a major cost saving when they work under our EBA you wouldnt think staff travel and the new band payments would make that much difference to the overall cost per crew member or will they be put on contracts through MAM, I am referring to short haul here?
However, as all QFLink crew SHOULD be aware progression ONLY occurs when x amount of external applicants are recruited into permanent positions.
Progression does not and has not occured when fixed term crew are recruited, furthermore if fixed term crew are converted to permanent positions after their contracts expire which did occur in short haul for some fixed termers this is NOT regarded under the terms of the progression document as external recruitment therefore no progression.
The only time progression will occur is when QF advertise and place people off the street into permanent positions. For example if 50 of the people on the current waitlist are given permanent positions in short haul progression will occur.
Now we all know this is highly unlikely so, you have to think about your future, taking into consideration the current climate at QF in terms of the way people are employed in the future.
If Qantas recruits year in year out and puts people onto contracts NO progression will occur even if after 3 years they convert them to permanent this does not activate progression as stated above. So you maybe at QFLink much longer than the current 4-5 years.
In particular EAA crew should have been made aware by the FAAA that this was the intention of Qantas before they voted for the second time on their EBA with the threat of progression over their head. The FAAA knew full well that this was QF's intention but did not pass this vital piece of information onto you before voting.
I do have a question though how is putting people on 3 year contracts going to be a major cost saving when they work under our EBA you wouldnt think staff travel and the new band payments would make that much difference to the overall cost per crew member or will they be put on contracts through MAM, I am referring to short haul here?
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Fixed Term Crew in short haul work under the terms and conditions of our EBA, therefore I cant see where the cost saving is either of course the overall liability is less than permanent crew but still I dont see any major reduction in cost here and as far as I know MAM casuals work under our EBA therefore even if they were employed by MAM still I dont see the cost saving.
If they were employed through Jet Connect NZ and based in Sydney WELL, there is a real cost saving but I dont even think that is possible but who knows.
If they were employed through Jet Connect NZ and based in Sydney WELL, there is a real cost saving but I dont even think that is possible but who knows.
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Getting back to the topic at hand re: long haul contractors...
Irrespective of whether or not QF Link crew may/may not be waiting around for some time under CP, the 3-year carrot thing just doesn't cut it.
I work with some people that the Pulse have hired that were ex Long Haul contractors. All it takes is for a single pax (or in some cases, a crew member) to take issue with you over the smallest thing for a black mark to be put in your record. And in some cases, you may not even know that you've got a black mark until you're given your marching orders. I've seen it time and time again, and it's terrible.
Having your employment rest on a daily opinion of someone who may be having a bad day is just not on - either you're good enough to do the job or you're not. This 'try before you buy for 3 years, and we may or may not keep you on' nonsense only serves to exploit those who really want to make a solid career out of flying.
True, many industries across the world use contracts, and QF's competitors are no different (SQ being one example). In industries such as IT, these are commonplace. However:
a) Contracts are not suited to those individuals who wish to make flying a career with the one airline (this isn't the UK, and this ain't a charter airline)
b) The aspect that you may be offloaded at the end of 3 years (or less) depending on external circumstances is too flexible to forecast appropriately, and
c) The ongoing job opportunities as FA's in Australia are very slim in a permanent, full time sense (including with the regionals). If, for any reason, you were not kept on at the end of your contract, what does one do then? It's back to square one folks, and the interview queue starts two blocks away!
I don't know about any other people here (although I am sure most will agree with me), but it has taken me far too long to get in as a FA with my airline, and had I not been employed immediately prior to the AN collapse, I might still be trying to get in. The stakes for me, personally, are too high for me to throw away on a whim to get into long haul. I want to go internationally, but not at the expense of my job security and ability to plan properly for the future in greater financial terms.
Further to CP, let's not forget that 3 years on a contract is an awfully long time compared with previous contracts that QF have used. Also, the usage of the term 'permanent', in an employment sense, is very flexible (casuals may be deemed permanent employees if given regular shifts).
Galleyhag - I'm sure there's been a lot that has gone on behind the scenes between QF and the FAAA that neither of us (or for that matter, anyone) is aware of regarding the EAA CP and EBA documents. Let's just stick with the clear facts we're all aware of, rather than trying to apportion 'blame' for contracted labour. Better a CP Agreement than none at all, and more importantly - who says that everyone that will be recruited will ALL be 3-year contractors?
In closing ladies and gents, I suggest we all do the following:
a) Wait until we all hear more information, rather than speculating this, that and the other is going to happen
b) Keep doing what we do best
c) Support one another by providing as much information as we can relating to future employment at QF and
d) Remember, an awful lot can happen between now and December. Let's not pin all our hopes on recruiting happening then. At the same time, however, we all know how fast things change - it may happen sooner?!
It is my understanding that additional recruitment will occur towards the later end of the year to replace current shortlist applicants who will be contacted for employment.
Irrespective of whether or not QF Link crew may/may not be waiting around for some time under CP, the 3-year carrot thing just doesn't cut it.
I work with some people that the Pulse have hired that were ex Long Haul contractors. All it takes is for a single pax (or in some cases, a crew member) to take issue with you over the smallest thing for a black mark to be put in your record. And in some cases, you may not even know that you've got a black mark until you're given your marching orders. I've seen it time and time again, and it's terrible.
Having your employment rest on a daily opinion of someone who may be having a bad day is just not on - either you're good enough to do the job or you're not. This 'try before you buy for 3 years, and we may or may not keep you on' nonsense only serves to exploit those who really want to make a solid career out of flying.
True, many industries across the world use contracts, and QF's competitors are no different (SQ being one example). In industries such as IT, these are commonplace. However:
a) Contracts are not suited to those individuals who wish to make flying a career with the one airline (this isn't the UK, and this ain't a charter airline)
b) The aspect that you may be offloaded at the end of 3 years (or less) depending on external circumstances is too flexible to forecast appropriately, and
c) The ongoing job opportunities as FA's in Australia are very slim in a permanent, full time sense (including with the regionals). If, for any reason, you were not kept on at the end of your contract, what does one do then? It's back to square one folks, and the interview queue starts two blocks away!
I don't know about any other people here (although I am sure most will agree with me), but it has taken me far too long to get in as a FA with my airline, and had I not been employed immediately prior to the AN collapse, I might still be trying to get in. The stakes for me, personally, are too high for me to throw away on a whim to get into long haul. I want to go internationally, but not at the expense of my job security and ability to plan properly for the future in greater financial terms.
Further to CP, let's not forget that 3 years on a contract is an awfully long time compared with previous contracts that QF have used. Also, the usage of the term 'permanent', in an employment sense, is very flexible (casuals may be deemed permanent employees if given regular shifts).
Galleyhag - I'm sure there's been a lot that has gone on behind the scenes between QF and the FAAA that neither of us (or for that matter, anyone) is aware of regarding the EAA CP and EBA documents. Let's just stick with the clear facts we're all aware of, rather than trying to apportion 'blame' for contracted labour. Better a CP Agreement than none at all, and more importantly - who says that everyone that will be recruited will ALL be 3-year contractors?
In closing ladies and gents, I suggest we all do the following:
a) Wait until we all hear more information, rather than speculating this, that and the other is going to happen
b) Keep doing what we do best
c) Support one another by providing as much information as we can relating to future employment at QF and
d) Remember, an awful lot can happen between now and December. Let's not pin all our hopes on recruiting happening then. At the same time, however, we all know how fast things change - it may happen sooner?!
It is my understanding that additional recruitment will occur towards the later end of the year to replace current shortlist applicants who will be contacted for employment.