Ansett Australia To Be Born Again ?
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Cabinboy
I totally agree with you re: customer complaints. I don't work for an airline, but it is annoying when you are not working and people are still in you ear about the bad service they received at your workplace. Particularly when you aren't able to obtain both sides of the story. And, I am sorry, but I am not going to accept personal responsibility for something that I have no control over. I will empathise with people and, if possible, i will follow up on the complaint - but I find that most people that "complain" - in the truest sense of the word (whinge, scream, shout, assume feotal position) - don't genuinely want the problem rectified. Rather, they want blood! But, customer feedback is one of the best ways of improving your service (or so the theory goes! )
What I do when someone is really complaining is to just let them rant for as long as it takes them to stop. I furrow my brow in *concern* and occassionally nod my head and thoughtfully say "hmm", "yes", "absolutely", all the while thinking of something totally unrelated (like a beach setting or whether I feel like cold or warm Weet-bix when I get home).
I also think that the name Ansett will not be used - to much baggage for non frequent fliers and non-aviation enthusiasts.
I totally agree with you re: customer complaints. I don't work for an airline, but it is annoying when you are not working and people are still in you ear about the bad service they received at your workplace. Particularly when you aren't able to obtain both sides of the story. And, I am sorry, but I am not going to accept personal responsibility for something that I have no control over. I will empathise with people and, if possible, i will follow up on the complaint - but I find that most people that "complain" - in the truest sense of the word (whinge, scream, shout, assume feotal position) - don't genuinely want the problem rectified. Rather, they want blood! But, customer feedback is one of the best ways of improving your service (or so the theory goes! )
What I do when someone is really complaining is to just let them rant for as long as it takes them to stop. I furrow my brow in *concern* and occassionally nod my head and thoughtfully say "hmm", "yes", "absolutely", all the while thinking of something totally unrelated (like a beach setting or whether I feel like cold or warm Weet-bix when I get home).
I also think that the name Ansett will not be used - to much baggage for non frequent fliers and non-aviation enthusiasts.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Skyflier, as ex-Ansett I really do appreciate your comments and best wishes. I am fortunate enough to be employed again but many of my colleagues and friends are still grieving and suffering both emotional and financial pain. It is nice to know that people out there really do appreciate the effort and determination the staff put into Ansett, despite it's financial woes and managerial bungles!
However, please do fly QF with an open mind - none of us here can speak for QF in regards to the incident you experienced with them on the flight you described. All I can say is that you may be very surprised to find that flying on QF this time may not be as unpleasant as your past experience/s. May I also add that there are many ex-Ansett crew now flying for QF so you might see some familiar faces and smiles!
(btw Sick Squid please pardon the digression, I'll get back to the original topic now <g>)
As for Ansett's revival, for me personally I'd rather see a new airline come in with it's own identity. Ansett has left the aviation industry with dignity and respect and the last thing I want to see is another company attempt to make money by using the Ansett name (it's been tried before, and failed!!!).
I do recall not so long ago that Australia had 4 domestic airlines, not sustainable with our current population but that is not to say another 3rd operator would not be welcome. Just so long as they use their own name, and employ Aussie staff I'll be happy.
SG
However, please do fly QF with an open mind - none of us here can speak for QF in regards to the incident you experienced with them on the flight you described. All I can say is that you may be very surprised to find that flying on QF this time may not be as unpleasant as your past experience/s. May I also add that there are many ex-Ansett crew now flying for QF so you might see some familiar faces and smiles!
(btw Sick Squid please pardon the digression, I'll get back to the original topic now <g>)
As for Ansett's revival, for me personally I'd rather see a new airline come in with it's own identity. Ansett has left the aviation industry with dignity and respect and the last thing I want to see is another company attempt to make money by using the Ansett name (it's been tried before, and failed!!!).
I do recall not so long ago that Australia had 4 domestic airlines, not sustainable with our current population but that is not to say another 3rd operator would not be welcome. Just so long as they use their own name, and employ Aussie staff I'll be happy.
SG
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Ansett was great once
We all loved the Ansetts and Pan Am's of the aviation world.
They did great service but failed when it came to maintance and running a business in changing times. One thing and one thing only dictates market share, PRICE. A customer will drop you for a $50 saving on a return economy ticket. I've been around al ong time as a f/a seen all types of services and crew levels and worked for two airlines. Travelled on 40 or more airlines and seen what they offer as service. All I can say is we can hold our head up 82 years never lost a life and in the top 4 most profitable airlines (Qantas). Ansett was great but underneath they were running a poor business that even lacked basic accounting and reporting procedures (quote from administators letter to f/flyers Jan 2002).
Time to move on everybody and get behind the two we have, many countries only have one domestic airline. The price of a ticket is cheaper today than it was 12 years ago SYD to MEL or SYD to PER. SYD to LHR cheaper than it was 14 years ago, some food for thought.
They did great service but failed when it came to maintance and running a business in changing times. One thing and one thing only dictates market share, PRICE. A customer will drop you for a $50 saving on a return economy ticket. I've been around al ong time as a f/a seen all types of services and crew levels and worked for two airlines. Travelled on 40 or more airlines and seen what they offer as service. All I can say is we can hold our head up 82 years never lost a life and in the top 4 most profitable airlines (Qantas). Ansett was great but underneath they were running a poor business that even lacked basic accounting and reporting procedures (quote from administators letter to f/flyers Jan 2002).
Time to move on everybody and get behind the two we have, many countries only have one domestic airline. The price of a ticket is cheaper today than it was 12 years ago SYD to MEL or SYD to PER. SYD to LHR cheaper than it was 14 years ago, some food for thought.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Peanut Pusher
Thanks for your insight.
You seem to forget that there are thousands of flighties here in Oz who have had their wings clipped. Many would dearly love to fly our beautiful skies again. Be that with another AN or form of.........whatever, its a tiny chance to continue a lifelong dream.
Many have been knocked back by the "two we have" for unacceptable reasons. YOU are lucky...... YOU still have a job. However slim the hope is that they may fly once again is destroyed by pessimists like you. Its obvious there is no 'real' competition to QF. (I'm sure that's who you work for)
Virgin are a bloody circus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just allow some of us to continue for a while untill we know one way or another. Where there is a rough, outside chance that we may yet fly again. I know it may be a 'false hope'; Whether it happens or not, who knows, but we will find out in the not to distant future, and "look out" those who maintain their level of arrogance. For you own sakes, I hope you don't believe in 'Karma'.
When 'Australian' eventually pull your comfortable shag rug from under you you'll be cryin too.
GO SQ!!!!!!!!!! Cant wait........................
Thanks for your insight.
You seem to forget that there are thousands of flighties here in Oz who have had their wings clipped. Many would dearly love to fly our beautiful skies again. Be that with another AN or form of.........whatever, its a tiny chance to continue a lifelong dream.
Many have been knocked back by the "two we have" for unacceptable reasons. YOU are lucky...... YOU still have a job. However slim the hope is that they may fly once again is destroyed by pessimists like you. Its obvious there is no 'real' competition to QF. (I'm sure that's who you work for)
Virgin are a bloody circus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just allow some of us to continue for a while untill we know one way or another. Where there is a rough, outside chance that we may yet fly again. I know it may be a 'false hope'; Whether it happens or not, who knows, but we will find out in the not to distant future, and "look out" those who maintain their level of arrogance. For you own sakes, I hope you don't believe in 'Karma'.
When 'Australian' eventually pull your comfortable shag rug from under you you'll be cryin too.
GO SQ!!!!!!!!!! Cant wait........................
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skystar, you are obviously one of the many who still hasnt regained employment in another airline, and with an attitude like yours, its hardly surprising. I too work for QF and I am not going to apologise for it. as for Virgin, leave them alone as they have a place in our aviation industry for whom ever chooses to fly with them. I really do feel for everyone who lost their jobs with Ansett but am lucky to have met some really wonderful people who have joined us. As for SQ, good luck to them! Oh by the way, Australian certainly will not pull the rug from under us!!
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um tyra...without sounding like a complete idiot here..... what makes u think that from a forum u can tell whether or not someone has a bad attitude.....i thought this forum was for everyone to express their opinion without being jumped on by other prruners! hmmmmmm
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OH MY GOD Sky priceless1...it's a fact
Skystar1....my post has nothing to do with ex Ansett f/a's.
It states facts that are of a nature relating to the current aviation climate and the way Ansett managers hide 4 years of poor management like the managers of Pan Am. I hope you get flying again I really do. Please ease off a bit, at QF we arn't against ex ansett staff we have taken on humdreds, I can tell you if Singapore make a move here and your over 30, over weight, tall, male or don't fit the SQ female mold you can also forget working for a wage anything like you had. Watch your aircraft serviced o/s and all the crew from SQ being brought out for 6mth secondments. Wish you luck in future flying applications, try us again sometimes we have eg.100 excellent people for 50 jobs, somebody has to miss out this time but doesn't mean they will next time. Chill
It states facts that are of a nature relating to the current aviation climate and the way Ansett managers hide 4 years of poor management like the managers of Pan Am. I hope you get flying again I really do. Please ease off a bit, at QF we arn't against ex ansett staff we have taken on humdreds, I can tell you if Singapore make a move here and your over 30, over weight, tall, male or don't fit the SQ female mold you can also forget working for a wage anything like you had. Watch your aircraft serviced o/s and all the crew from SQ being brought out for 6mth secondments. Wish you luck in future flying applications, try us again sometimes we have eg.100 excellent people for 50 jobs, somebody has to miss out this time but doesn't mean they will next time. Chill
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Skystar,
you comments regarding QF arrogance are a bit rough mate !
I for one have helped many ex ansett staff on this forum with QF recruitment info and interview questions/help. I highly doubt that is seen as arrogant to the ex ansett staff I have helped.
Just remember which airline carried 20,000 of your stranded pax home for free when AN went bust this time last year - arrogance ? no........ helping out a mate when in need ? YES
QF and AN had a very good relationship over the years, let's not ruin that on this forum.
Cabinboy
(edited due typo)
you comments regarding QF arrogance are a bit rough mate !
I for one have helped many ex ansett staff on this forum with QF recruitment info and interview questions/help. I highly doubt that is seen as arrogant to the ex ansett staff I have helped.
Just remember which airline carried 20,000 of your stranded pax home for free when AN went bust this time last year - arrogance ? no........ helping out a mate when in need ? YES
QF and AN had a very good relationship over the years, let's not ruin that on this forum.
Cabinboy
(edited due typo)
Last edited by cabinboy; 11th Sep 2002 at 03:54.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I cannot believe the rubbish being written on this forum, when i joined, it was all about helping each other out, but this dribble re: ansett v qantas v virgin blue is just really a waste of time.
I take my hat off to all F/A's, it is not an easy job as some people presume, no matter who you work for.
I have chatted here with many people and helped with interview tips because i got the same help when i needed it and made my dream a reality this year.
I have met some ppruners, have kept in touch and become good friends with many and I now work with some aswell.
Lets not forget what this is all about and continue to help the people who log on here daily, watching and waiting for a bit of help or advice that may get them where they want to go.
Keep going guys, once you reach your goal it will all be worth it, i promise.
On that note, Kendell (now REX) are recruiting for F/A's in Sydney.
Update your CV on cabincrew.staffcv.com and SEND!
Good Luck.
I take my hat off to all F/A's, it is not an easy job as some people presume, no matter who you work for.
I have chatted here with many people and helped with interview tips because i got the same help when i needed it and made my dream a reality this year.
I have met some ppruners, have kept in touch and become good friends with many and I now work with some aswell.
Lets not forget what this is all about and continue to help the people who log on here daily, watching and waiting for a bit of help or advice that may get them where they want to go.
Keep going guys, once you reach your goal it will all be worth it, i promise.
On that note, Kendell (now REX) are recruiting for F/A's in Sydney.
Update your CV on cabincrew.staffcv.com and SEND!
Good Luck.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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hi nickmelb, yeah I know I shouldnt think that about someone I dont know, but I just get a bit upset when people keep on branding QF as arrogant, or whatever and I guess on behalf of all my fellow collegues, I get my back up a bit! Any way, lets get back to the original topic subject regarding Ansett!!
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I still believe some people should scan carrots from a conveyor belt for a while ... just to discover what frustration is all about and help them getting rid of their arrogance... 
So you are ex Ansett... you had your "wings clipped"... and what makes you think you deserve a better chance than anybody else? Your previous experience and "lovely" attitude?
Thankfully I've met ex AN people that think differently: instead of expecting other airlines' compassion and preferential treatment, they are working hard towards getting another honest chance in the industry (pilots included) and they know competition is high. Work on yourself instead of blaming the airlines and criticizing happy QF workers! I'm sure learning another language, applying for other jobs in hospitaliy, applying to smaller airlines, making new friends in the industry, etc. can contribute to your success!
(I can't stress enough about the importance of NETWORKING! )
On the other hand, there are people in this country with great personality, excellent customer service, positive energy, foreign languages, motivation etc. etc. but no previous cabin crew experience. Do you think they get a fair chance? Do you hear them complaining? It is okay to blaim 911 for a while... then AN collapses and they remain on the bottom of the list because there are hundreds of qualified, unemployed ex AN workers to be interviewed and hired before them... still, after a year, half of the people turning up to the interviews I've been to where ex-AN!
I could mention at least 10 names of wannabes I've met through this forum that would be fantastic cabin crew!! They would work for ANY airline, would that be QF, VB, REX or anyone allowing them to realize their dream. They wouldn't complain about the money, roster, allocated base, seniority and all that stuff I hear ex-AN people complaining about, even before they start the job! (I however agree unions are important and the profession wouldn't be what it is today if it wasn't for the energy of many cabin crew fighting for their rights!).
Let's welcome SQ with open arms and hope they'll give us a fair go, by conducting a proper selection process... (to me "us" means ex AN workers, Australian wannabes, Asians, Europeans or Africans... in NO specific order, without discrimination!!)
...and YES, I believe in KARMA...
I invite you, SKYSTAR1, to read something I posted not long ago on this forum, called "Eternal Truths"... Good luck to you!
Mrs. FloatJockey
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick personal notes:
Thanks KSD333 for the info regarding REX. It's people like you that make this forum enjoyable
. (Btw, I hope you got my letter)
Peanut Pusher, I'm leaving around Oct. 20th... I need to check what the sky looks like on the other side... but I'll be back in a couple of years... ready to kick b**** with a bran new and shiny visa!! Uh!
So you are ex Ansett... you had your "wings clipped"... and what makes you think you deserve a better chance than anybody else? Your previous experience and "lovely" attitude?
Thankfully I've met ex AN people that think differently: instead of expecting other airlines' compassion and preferential treatment, they are working hard towards getting another honest chance in the industry (pilots included) and they know competition is high. Work on yourself instead of blaming the airlines and criticizing happy QF workers! I'm sure learning another language, applying for other jobs in hospitaliy, applying to smaller airlines, making new friends in the industry, etc. can contribute to your success!
(I can't stress enough about the importance of NETWORKING!
)On the other hand, there are people in this country with great personality, excellent customer service, positive energy, foreign languages, motivation etc. etc. but no previous cabin crew experience. Do you think they get a fair chance? Do you hear them complaining? It is okay to blaim 911 for a while... then AN collapses and they remain on the bottom of the list because there are hundreds of qualified, unemployed ex AN workers to be interviewed and hired before them... still, after a year, half of the people turning up to the interviews I've been to where ex-AN!
I could mention at least 10 names of wannabes I've met through this forum that would be fantastic cabin crew!! They would work for ANY airline, would that be QF, VB, REX or anyone allowing them to realize their dream. They wouldn't complain about the money, roster, allocated base, seniority and all that stuff I hear ex-AN people complaining about, even before they start the job! (I however agree unions are important and the profession wouldn't be what it is today if it wasn't for the energy of many cabin crew fighting for their rights!).
Let's welcome SQ with open arms and hope they'll give us a fair go, by conducting a proper selection process... (to me "us" means ex AN workers, Australian wannabes, Asians, Europeans or Africans... in NO specific order, without discrimination!!)
...and YES, I believe in KARMA...
I invite you, SKYSTAR1, to read something I posted not long ago on this forum, called "Eternal Truths"... Good luck to you!
Mrs. FloatJockey
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick personal notes:
Thanks KSD333 for the info regarding REX. It's people like you that make this forum enjoyable
. (Btw, I hope you got my letter)Peanut Pusher, I'm leaving around Oct. 20th... I need to check what the sky looks like on the other side... but I'll be back in a couple of years... ready to kick b**** with a bran new and shiny visa!! Uh!
Last edited by FloatJockey; 12th Sep 2002 at 05:23.
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Dont take it out on each other.
While working at the Ansett Headquarters in Melbourne, it was candidly discussed as early as July 2000, that "the business" was being closed down.
At a lunch with several key managers, it was joked to me that "I had better have a strong union in September next year".
I sat on those comments for a year, not believing for a second, that they would ever do it.
But they did!
It was apparently, one of the worst kept secrets in the aviation industry here in Australia as well, according to my sources in QF!
"The Business" was never going to make it out of this mess alive and I'll give you a first hand example of just one of the many contracts that were made by one of the last owners of the airline, before they sold to Air NZ.
While attempting to save costs in our catering, it was discovered that no reduction of the catering budget could be made, as guaranteed for a NINE YEAR period. This ridiculous deal was made to secure the sale of the catering department!
I'm sure that there are many more examples that others could tell about the insincere motivations of the owners of the time.
These "deals" could never be fulfilled as they just added another liability to the airline.
Ansett was correctly described as "asset rich but cash poor."
The assets were sold with a "delicious sense of urgency" by News Corp. because they could.
"Why wreck an airline?.......because it's wreckable!" famously quoted by Gordon Gecko from the movie "Wallstreet". The comments were made about a fictional airline featured in the movie named "Blue Star". This airline also had a large inventory of equipment and real estate, that were worth more seperately than bundled as a brand.
New airline start-ups are usually described as "virtual" for good reason, because they usually only own only the brand and lease everything else.
I realise that everyones coping mechanisms are different and we vent our spleens at inapproriate times.
Lets not blame the wrong people here.
While working at the Ansett Headquarters in Melbourne, it was candidly discussed as early as July 2000, that "the business" was being closed down.
At a lunch with several key managers, it was joked to me that "I had better have a strong union in September next year".
I sat on those comments for a year, not believing for a second, that they would ever do it.
But they did!
It was apparently, one of the worst kept secrets in the aviation industry here in Australia as well, according to my sources in QF!
"The Business" was never going to make it out of this mess alive and I'll give you a first hand example of just one of the many contracts that were made by one of the last owners of the airline, before they sold to Air NZ.
While attempting to save costs in our catering, it was discovered that no reduction of the catering budget could be made, as guaranteed for a NINE YEAR period. This ridiculous deal was made to secure the sale of the catering department!
I'm sure that there are many more examples that others could tell about the insincere motivations of the owners of the time.
These "deals" could never be fulfilled as they just added another liability to the airline.
Ansett was correctly described as "asset rich but cash poor."
The assets were sold with a "delicious sense of urgency" by News Corp. because they could.
"Why wreck an airline?.......because it's wreckable!" famously quoted by Gordon Gecko from the movie "Wallstreet". The comments were made about a fictional airline featured in the movie named "Blue Star". This airline also had a large inventory of equipment and real estate, that were worth more seperately than bundled as a brand.
New airline start-ups are usually described as "virtual" for good reason, because they usually only own only the brand and lease everything else.
I realise that everyones coping mechanisms are different and we vent our spleens at inapproriate times.
Lets not blame the wrong people here.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I guess that is what can happen if a company allows its management at the highest level to be infiltrated by the oppositions management. Lucky buggars - drawing two salaries!.
