Wow - I Flew Emirates Yesterday
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Wow - I Flew Emirates Yesterday
As a 32 year flight attendant in the US, I was amazed yesterday flying as a passenger on the Emirates A380 in Economy Class from London to Dubai. The crew was fantastic, each passenger special request was met with lots of charm and professionalism. Along with the great crew, I was impressed with the great catering, comfort of the aircraft, and amount of supplies that the crew had to work with. My hats off to you all !! 
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and all it took was massive subsidy...
Care to back that up with actual facts? Let's say in comparison to BA since...hmmm let me think, how about since purchasing Concorde for £1.00 per piece
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Lucky draw
Wow I sure hope that I will be one of the winners for the lucky draw
at KL for the grand prize for a flight to DUB from KUL.
Its so huge isnt it?
How I wish that Emirates will give special rates to ATCO's.
at KL for the grand prize for a flight to DUB from KUL.
Its so huge isnt it?
How I wish that Emirates will give special rates to ATCO's.
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haughtney1, not sure what you´d consider facts, but the respected Canadian journalist David Akin airs both points of view on his blog here.
It is by any means an interesting read.
Since nobody here has brought up BA, nor does anybody appear to work for BA, I can´t see what relevance your Concorde remark has?
Jetlagged Purser, LOVE your username!
Good to read that you enjoyed your trip; a smooth operation is a thing of beauty from a pax point of view.
At the same time, with everything I have read about the working conditions and the type of management our colleagues at that airline are subject to, as an FA I find it hard to rejoice about very much going on there.
It is by any means an interesting read.
Since nobody here has brought up BA, nor does anybody appear to work for BA, I can´t see what relevance your Concorde remark has?
Jetlagged Purser, LOVE your username!
Good to read that you enjoyed your trip; a smooth operation is a thing of beauty from a pax point of view.
At the same time, with everything I have read about the working conditions and the type of management our colleagues at that airline are subject to, as an FA I find it hard to rejoice about very much going on there.
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Judd, with the greatest of respect, I'm not sure that you could find an impartial view from a political hack based in Ottawa, particularly given the prickly nature of the present relationship between the UAE and Ottawa.
But back to the questions of a subsidy...Wikipedia defines it as (yes I know Wikipedia...but it's a comprehensive definition)
Based on those terms, one could hardly argue that EK receives ANY form of subsidy, moreover, the terminology and ideological framework of such an environment is based around the premise of....wait for it....protectionism.
Now if you can sell that one to me about EK and it's operations in Dubai, then I'm all ears.
Similar arguments have been levelled previously i.e. They don't pay for fuel, they get handling for free etc etc etc. But the fact is none of that has any basis in reality.
The reality is that EK operate in a regulatory environment that is aviation friendly, compare that to how long T5 took at LHR..or the shenanigans over the 3rd non-runway.
There is very little if any corporation tax to pay in the UAE, and yet EK paid 35% of its profits to the government (tell me how a subsidised airline would manage that?)
Many commentators have made the argument that due to EK being based in a favourable regulatory environment, it effectively receives an indirect subsidy which again is demonstrably misleading....ANYONE can operate into and out of UAE as it operates and open skies policy, hardly a subsidised business environment.
I'd love to go far more into the detail of why Tightslot's comment was both wrong and ignorant of many facts....but alas I think it would be lost in the background noise.
But back to the questions of a subsidy...Wikipedia defines it as (yes I know Wikipedia...but it's a comprehensive definition)
A subsidy (also known as a Render) is an assistance paid to a business or economic sector. Most subsidies are made by the government to producers or distributed as subventions in an industry to prevent the decline of that industry (e.g., as a result of continuous unprofitable operations) or an increase in the prices of its products or simply to encourage it to hire more labor (as in the case of a wage subsidy). Examples are subsidies to encourage the sale of exports; subsidies on some foods to keep down the cost of living, especially in urban areas; and subsidies to encourage the expansion of farm production and achieve self-reliance in food production.
[1]
Subsidies can be regarded as a form of protectionism or trade barrier by making domestic goods and services artificially competitive against imports. Subsidies may distort markets, and can impose large economic costs.
[2] Financial assistance in the form of a subsidy may come from one's government, but the term subsidy may also refer to assistance granted by others, such as individuals or non-governmental institutions
[1]
Subsidies can be regarded as a form of protectionism or trade barrier by making domestic goods and services artificially competitive against imports. Subsidies may distort markets, and can impose large economic costs.
[2] Financial assistance in the form of a subsidy may come from one's government, but the term subsidy may also refer to assistance granted by others, such as individuals or non-governmental institutions
Now if you can sell that one to me about EK and it's operations in Dubai, then I'm all ears.
Similar arguments have been levelled previously i.e. They don't pay for fuel, they get handling for free etc etc etc. But the fact is none of that has any basis in reality.
The reality is that EK operate in a regulatory environment that is aviation friendly, compare that to how long T5 took at LHR..or the shenanigans over the 3rd non-runway.
There is very little if any corporation tax to pay in the UAE, and yet EK paid 35% of its profits to the government (tell me how a subsidised airline would manage that?)
Many commentators have made the argument that due to EK being based in a favourable regulatory environment, it effectively receives an indirect subsidy which again is demonstrably misleading....ANYONE can operate into and out of UAE as it operates and open skies policy, hardly a subsidised business environment.
I'd love to go far more into the detail of why Tightslot's comment was both wrong and ignorant of many facts....but alas I think it would be lost in the background noise.
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Well, avoiding the detail 
As a general rule, I don't approve of subsidy of any kind - ever - of anything. Government money consistently distorts markets and props up the otherwise unsupportable. That includes BA. However that's by-the-by.
Your view is contentious in that there are many that disagree (avoiding the detail) as there are many that agree. Neither side has a monopoly of truth. I suspect that as always, the truth lies somewhere in between: Neither as much nor as little as is claimed by the partisans.
The ME may enjoy an aviation friendly environment, and the rest of the world may not. The rest of the world has unionised workforces and all the complications of hiring mature, thinking humans with sophisticated expectations and behavioural patterns that make life complicated for both airline managements and sometimes customers. That's because they are an integral part of the societies that they operate within. The rules and regs, airport and transport infrastructure and social practises are the result of long and hard-earned experience and money.
From a customer perspective, the success of the ME airlines is simply the market demonstrating its' power: They offer a good product at a competitive price and that is impossible to argue against. However, customers need to be aware of the effect of their decisions. The global dominance of the big 3 comes at a price: Freedom is not Free. If we choose to outsource our airlines to a society that criminalises homosexuality, promotes slave labour, restricts Trade Union membership and promotes Nepotism and Graft then that is our choice - just as it is their choice to create a society of their own model. Their airlines are putting ours out of business: That's the market at work, but lets at least be fully aware of what it is that we are buying.
As a general rule, I don't approve of subsidy of any kind - ever - of anything. Government money consistently distorts markets and props up the otherwise unsupportable. That includes BA. However that's by-the-by.
Your view is contentious in that there are many that disagree (avoiding the detail) as there are many that agree. Neither side has a monopoly of truth. I suspect that as always, the truth lies somewhere in between: Neither as much nor as little as is claimed by the partisans.
The ME may enjoy an aviation friendly environment, and the rest of the world may not. The rest of the world has unionised workforces and all the complications of hiring mature, thinking humans with sophisticated expectations and behavioural patterns that make life complicated for both airline managements and sometimes customers. That's because they are an integral part of the societies that they operate within. The rules and regs, airport and transport infrastructure and social practises are the result of long and hard-earned experience and money.
From a customer perspective, the success of the ME airlines is simply the market demonstrating its' power: They offer a good product at a competitive price and that is impossible to argue against. However, customers need to be aware of the effect of their decisions. The global dominance of the big 3 comes at a price: Freedom is not Free. If we choose to outsource our airlines to a society that criminalises homosexuality, promotes slave labour, restricts Trade Union membership and promotes Nepotism and Graft then that is our choice - just as it is their choice to create a society of their own model. Their airlines are putting ours out of business: That's the market at work, but lets at least be fully aware of what it is that we are buying.
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Thank you!
I am a cabin crew for EK (and, what a surprise - also a mature, thinking human with sophisticated expectations and behavioural patterns). For me it is nothing but nice to hear a compliment from a customer, even more so from an industry- experienced person (you understand like no other what it is like to do our job). A simple thank you for taking your time to write this down!
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.... customers need to be aware of the effect of their decisions. The global dominance of the big 3 comes at a price: Freedom is not Free. If we choose to outsource our airlines to a society that criminalises homosexuality, promotes slave labour, restricts Trade Union membership and promotes Nepotism and Graft then that is our choice
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EK
Of ALL the airlines I fly with, KLM/ AF/ Emirates and BA normally, EK have by FAR the best crews, in my humble opinion. When they are goo, they are excellent, normally DXB- Far East but when thy are not, they can be mediocre at best (invariably DXB to and from the UK).
I am MORE than happy to tell them so whem they have done well, and let EK know who their stars are.
Compared to the "Blue Meanies" on KLM, the distinctly dissinterested AF crews, and those of BA, "the Worlds surliest airline" as we used to call it, EK are streets ahead.
Ooops, better shut up now, flying BA on Friday !
I am MORE than happy to tell them so whem they have done well, and let EK know who their stars are.
Compared to the "Blue Meanies" on KLM, the distinctly dissinterested AF crews, and those of BA, "the Worlds surliest airline" as we used to call it, EK are streets ahead.
Ooops, better shut up now, flying BA on Friday !
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Would echo Tezzers comments, always found EK crews to be very professonal in their dealings with clients. They have a largly new fleet and fly from where I want to, and the change in DXB has yet to cause me any issues. Hope all goes well tonight having said, that as I am outbound with them !.
However Tightslot has a valued point about the UAE in that the rules there are not like those applied in the West (I have worked there in the past and still do on ocasions so have first hand experiance of this). But you should bare in mind that until recently if you were born in Western Europe , North America, Australasia, Japan you were born with a relative silver spoon in the mouth. The rest of the world has not been fortunate enough to have stable political and economic growth and the social and legal concepts that have come with this. This is changing as other areas take up the Western capatalist free market way of business but they have yet to graft on the social and legal issues which go along with this, as this takes time (look at UK during industrial revolution). Until these occur you will always have the issues raised re wages,labour relations,law of contract etc as currently they do not look at the world in the same way as those who have grown up in western stile democracy, and you have to remember this when dealing with them or trying to understand their view of the world. I should say that this is not just a UAE issue and I find it in most emerging markets in which I travel and work. I am sure it will change in these areas but it will take time.
However Tightslot has a valued point about the UAE in that the rules there are not like those applied in the West (I have worked there in the past and still do on ocasions so have first hand experiance of this). But you should bare in mind that until recently if you were born in Western Europe , North America, Australasia, Japan you were born with a relative silver spoon in the mouth. The rest of the world has not been fortunate enough to have stable political and economic growth and the social and legal concepts that have come with this. This is changing as other areas take up the Western capatalist free market way of business but they have yet to graft on the social and legal issues which go along with this, as this takes time (look at UK during industrial revolution). Until these occur you will always have the issues raised re wages,labour relations,law of contract etc as currently they do not look at the world in the same way as those who have grown up in western stile democracy, and you have to remember this when dealing with them or trying to understand their view of the world. I should say that this is not just a UAE issue and I find it in most emerging markets in which I travel and work. I am sure it will change in these areas but it will take time.
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I fly for a Hong Kong Carrier but any chance I get to fly EK in First or Business I take. I've even chosen paying for EK over our own company Business Class that costs me almost nothing.
EK have a great product.
EK have a great product.
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I think there is a lot of sour grapes whenever Emirates are discussed.
Of course there are good, bad and plain disinterested cabin crew with any airline, but by far the EK crew stand out for their friendly, courteous service. If they have such bad T&Cs and are badly treated, they sure know how to hide it.
Of course there are good, bad and plain disinterested cabin crew with any airline, but by far the EK crew stand out for their friendly, courteous service. If they have such bad T&Cs and are badly treated, they sure know how to hide it.
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I had the pleasure of flying EK when it was brand new - 1988 or so. They had only 1 or 2 leased A300s.
My impression of the CC was disbelief. The only mental model I could conjur was a EK VP must have ridden a bunch of the better carriers, noted the best FA's on each leg, and offered them jobs on the spot. Not a slacker nor a loser in the lot.
Haven't had the good fortune to fly EK recently, but they're obviously maintaining a high standard.
My impression of the CC was disbelief. The only mental model I could conjur was a EK VP must have ridden a bunch of the better carriers, noted the best FA's on each leg, and offered them jobs on the spot. Not a slacker nor a loser in the lot.
Haven't had the good fortune to fly EK recently, but they're obviously maintaining a high standard.
Considering they have a very wide variety of nationalities (recent flight had 21 spoken languages; many from the West; their heavily attended "job fairs"; the number of applicants far exceeding the openings; and the consistently high level of service leads me to believe they offer a competitive and rewarding workplace and opportunities. Is Dubai, and by extension EK, like the "West"? Of course not. Neither is China or India or about 75% of the globe.
The Aussie EK F/A I spoke with thought I was a fair deal, especially given the tax environment in Oz. As did several others that work in the flight ops office.
GF
The Aussie EK F/A I spoke with thought I was a fair deal, especially given the tax environment in Oz. As did several others that work in the flight ops office.
GF
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EK have too many A380s for this flyer. I risk being in a bird that is, as of 2012, still largely untested.
Sure they have a bunch of 777s but the real problem is that they are not a member of any alliance. Why is that?
They obviously want independence. This undoubtedly ha many benefits.
But I feel better knowing that airlines I fly are members of a group that have audits and labor standards like those available to workers in the early 20th Century. There are some parts of the world (I am not necessarily talking about UAE or only about UAE) I would not want surgery done, would not want to try my luck in their court system, nor would I wish to be flown by a pilot based there. And if you have a problem with any of these things, and need redress trying your luck in their court system would be a less than familiar experience. Even in Europe it's not that great. Sure, they dress like we do in the English speaking world, but they don't think like we do - I am talking about countries like France. So whether you are battling a doctor, an airline, baggage, a dentist or anyone else who has done you wrong, you may end up getting nowhere with your "ideals" about "rights".
I appreciate that there are a lot of good foreign pilots and ground crew there at EK and that everyone is well intentioned, but I do wonder what opportunity they get to stand up to their employer in the interests of their (and pax) safety.
I think that AA will regret the day they bought into the Airbus philosophy because Joe Public has the Google and Joe Public has an internet connection and is starting to see and read about QF72 and AF447 and all of the other hijinks. Despite EK's best intentions, and there is no doubt they are good, any airline that proudly boasts about a largely untested piece of tech (ie not yet in operation for more than x1000 cycles) that is responsible for carrying hundreds of pax is probably jumping the gun.
Sure they have a bunch of 777s but the real problem is that they are not a member of any alliance. Why is that?
They obviously want independence. This undoubtedly ha many benefits.
But I feel better knowing that airlines I fly are members of a group that have audits and labor standards like those available to workers in the early 20th Century. There are some parts of the world (I am not necessarily talking about UAE or only about UAE) I would not want surgery done, would not want to try my luck in their court system, nor would I wish to be flown by a pilot based there. And if you have a problem with any of these things, and need redress trying your luck in their court system would be a less than familiar experience. Even in Europe it's not that great. Sure, they dress like we do in the English speaking world, but they don't think like we do - I am talking about countries like France. So whether you are battling a doctor, an airline, baggage, a dentist or anyone else who has done you wrong, you may end up getting nowhere with your "ideals" about "rights".
I appreciate that there are a lot of good foreign pilots and ground crew there at EK and that everyone is well intentioned, but I do wonder what opportunity they get to stand up to their employer in the interests of their (and pax) safety.
I think that AA will regret the day they bought into the Airbus philosophy because Joe Public has the Google and Joe Public has an internet connection and is starting to see and read about QF72 and AF447 and all of the other hijinks. Despite EK's best intentions, and there is no doubt they are good, any airline that proudly boasts about a largely untested piece of tech (ie not yet in operation for more than x1000 cycles) that is responsible for carrying hundreds of pax is probably jumping the gun.