Transgendered cabin crew?

[KitKat747]

After a man has had a sex change operation he legally becomes a woman and is able to marry as a woman etc. The birth certificate and passport are changed to recognise the new sex or perhaps the sex the person should have been born in the first place.

Mentioning chromosomes is correct but is surely nit picking and rather unkind to state once a man always a man on the strength of chomosomial existence. The presence of a Y chromosome does not define your sex, the introduction of the first sex tests in the Olympics defined a man as having a Y chromosome. It was quickly apparent that there are a number of fully fertile women in the population who possess a Y chromosome. They are rare - but they do exist. This is evidence that Rainboe's assertion that your sex is simply defined by having either XX (woman) or XY is wrong. Perhaps people need to consider the sex of individulas with XXY or even XYY or simply a single X - all of whom exist in our population.

I see no reason why a transgendered person cannot be a flight attendant providing they are capable of doing their job.

Many years ago I flew with a transexual flight attendant who was previously a man, I was unaware she had been a he until another flight attendant mentioned it.

Today's sex changes are much better and it is usually difficult to spot a transexual, we must be tolerant to mistakes that nature makes . I am glad we live in a time when surgeons can rectify these mistakes (neuro-surgeons cannot)

I fail to see why someone connected this issue with same-sex couples adopting children and endorcing their views with reference to a religion? Religion is a private matter and should be kept that way.

[A and C]

As long as someone works to the required standards of the airline, gender & sexual orientation should not be an issue.

The issue that I have on this is the medieval attitude to people who just have "different" personal lives.

[The Heff]

Right or wrong, Rainboe's comments have at the very least made this thread into a truly interesting read, and at the most an educated and thought-provoking debate.

I work in a call-centre in Northern England, and there's a chap there who has just decided he wants to be a chappesse. He's sparked quite a bit of curiousity amongst us all, but not many welcoming reactions (or none that I've heard of anyway).

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out for him, and whether a call-centre will be as supportive as you cabin-crew seem to be.

[Andrea COLLIAUX]

You're so right, but...

I was supposed to be fired when I had my transition at the age of 35 in Brighton by AF. BUT, the doctor said that as long as I was able to do my job properly, there was no reason to fire me. But believe me, it's a real nightmare to me sometimes to fly with some very racists crews that do not see the difference between being a transgendered person, a transvestite, a gay or a lesbian woman... I do not have any problems with the passengers, but other crew are sometimes very mean...

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Quote
Mac, I'm very disturbed by this: you are giving surgery to otherwise healthy bodies to make them something they are not? Please explain. I know some people don't have normally formed parts, but I know that most of this surgery is on normal bodies to make them something they are not, but what their perverted desire wants them to be? Is that a correct interpretation? We are not talking about simple things like breast augmentation- we are talking about changing nature?

Reply
I agree completely, But at the end of the day - That is THEIR choice if they want to go down that road??

It makes no direct difference in their quality of work, But obviously they will have to expect differing attitudes from differing people.

If they cannot take criticsm or rejection then they may have to go back to their own lifeplan board!!

There's no real answer to the problem??

[Jean-Lill]

If people cannot accept transexual or gay people and have to insult them by joking about them I seriously wonder if those people are really happy with their own sexuality or even gender. If one is happy with their own sexuality why do they have to make fun of others who have not chosen to be in a pridicament they are in?

[8846]

Few are actually READING what Rainboe is writing. He doesn't need my support but..

The science is the science and what anyone might think about it changes nothing. Your opinions are just that..opinions and often ill founded ones at that.

We've all got to try to learn about and people and understand their problems, whatever they are, if we want to be decent human beings - unfortunately not that common a trait in this business..

So...support people who are facing problems and maybe try to understand a little of what they are going through. That's all that can be asked..

[paco]

"Britannia had a FO a few years ago that decided that HE was SHE.
"She" went in to have a chat to the Chief Pilot, and said "In future
I'd like to be known as Christine." The Chief Flugger is supposed
to have replied "In future I think you'll be known as unemployed."
He was last heard of at Orion.(?)."

Actually she wanted to be known as Kristina (second name began with S). There was a spread in the Daily mail I seem to remember. Anyhow, she got fired with a handsome payout from Britannia and went to work for a small airline in Wales, which immediately put her on a sub-contract to Britannia, which caused great amusement in the crew-room.

phil

[Michael Birbeck]

What the hell has gender (or transgender) got to do with anybody's fitness to fly or manage or fly in an aircraft.

Just read this thread and am obviously missing the point!

Since when did sex or gender matter?

[awesomepilot]

I think it is pretty cool. As long as the transgendered person is courteous and clean and professional as a flight attendant it should be ok.

Hopefully he or she will be able to talk to passengers at some stage and describe his or her reasons for becoming a flight attendant and travelling th eworld - this will help promote awareness of diversity.

[Jean-Lill]

It matters not what the chromosome status of a transexual is, it will not be changed from XY (male) to XX (female) but the matter does not stop there. It is what sex the person feels is their's and which sex they feel comfortable in.

On the subject of chromosomes please be aware some people are XXY which is very unusual but they are not bi-sexed in any way, it is not these people who usually wish to transgender and one really should ask what sex these people are if some of the earlier postings on this thread are relevant. These XXY people of course know which sex they are and perfectly happy with their sex and are usually totally unaware they are niether XX or XY. Some pilots and flight attendants (+ anyone else) could well be XXY and will not know that. I do not know of anyone who has had reason to have a chromosome test.

It appears some people prefer to think that transgendered men/women are not really the new sex doctors have surgically made them. Legally they are of the new chosen sex and should be treated that way but yes a transgendered male to female will still have XY chomosome status but why should that bother anyone when some other people have XXY chromosomes?

Transgendered people should be supported and accepted in the occupations they had before, if they could do the job then they probably do it a lot better now because they are more in tune with themselves than they were before.

[Bergerie1]

Let's forget the chromsome issues and focus instead on the person. Back in the 1970s I can remember flying with a steward who used to come to room parties dressed as a girl. He was a good steward and a nice person. I can remember him one evening explaining very lucidly the emotional difficulties of feeling female but trapped in a male body.

Several years later I climbed onto an aircraft leaving Heathrow and this attractive girl came up to me and said; "Hello, xxxx, do you remember me?" Of course, I didn't and then she told me who she had been.

I am glad to say that the company in its wisdom had decided to re-employ her after the operation. She was now a good stewardess, a good crew member and still a very nice person.

I have often thought of the enlightened manager who agreed to all this. I, also, hope that wherever she/he is she is happy and contented with her life.

Can I urge some who have written to PPRUNE to think a little more compassionately about the individual involved.

[Fliegenmong]

This is a guy my dd grew up with...for a while Peter Drouyn...now Westerly Windina

Surfer dude finds peace as a woman - Local News - Gold Coast, QLD, Australia

.....

[Andrea COLLIAUX]

A man will be a man.

Yes, I agree with you, for most of my colleagues, I am the "steward who became an air-hostess". Surgery did it all, it's true, but inside of me I've always been a girl. Sex-change is not an illness, it's just a revange on a life you never wanted. I've had my transition 10 year ago now in Brighton and I was the first flight attendant in France to do so. I opened many opportunities to other persons -not only flight attendants- who felts the same about sex-change.I got married one year ago with a pilot ; I'll never change my mind about what I've done ! My husband is divorced, absolutly "straight" and never saw me before my transition. Of course he knows about my transition : and so what ? That does not make him a gay or a pervert ! He knows, I know, and it's our private life. Now I'm a flight attendant among others, and since I've my husband'name, life is quite easier. And you know what ? the most important thing in life is to do what YOU WANT,and no what other people would like you to do. Think about it...

[demomonkey]

People have done this successfully on both sides of the door;

Sarah's Story

All I can say to those who are dubious about this subject (and judging by this thread they appear to be in the minority) is that if you had known someone with GID you would probably not be so questioning.

[etrang]

Rainbowe, you do know that there are more possible chromosomal combinations than just XX and XY, don't you? Or perhaps you don't.

[Tiramisu]

Akerosid,
I have flown with someone who's had a sex change in BA. This individual is one of the best crew members I have flown with professionally and one of the nicest person I have had the pleasure to work with. This is what matters most to me and many of us in BA.

Andrea,
All the best to you and your husband.

[cavortingcheetah]

Since the procedure became a right, more than 1,000 people have had the surgery, hormone treatment and pyschotherapy required for a sex change operation. Something in the order of 80% of the operations have been male to female. The cost to the NHS over the last decade is something in the order of £10 million for the 1,000 or so transitions performed. In an appeal court verdict in 1999 , health authorities were required to assess the need for treatment for transexuals as though they were suffering from a disease rather than in need of cosmetic surgery. The health authority in the appeal claimed that it was entitled to take into account its own “scarce resources” and to refuse funding for the operations if it meant funding for serious illnesses, such as heart disease, cancer, kidney cases and Aids would suffer.
I don't suffer from gender identity dysphoria and I would want an extraordinary good reason before I had my testicles removed and my penis cut off even under a full anaesthetic. So while I, from an admittedly medically biased position, think that there are far greater priorities for a financially pressed NHS; I am very prepared to believe that there is much more than a cosmetic fetish at stake here for those who agonise over their particular problem.
As for flight crew, what possible difference could a little biological tweak make so long as the individual was competent and happy?

[Mr Optimistic]

Gender Recognition Board

How is it nobody has reference the actual UK law ?

Gender recognition - Ministry of Justice

Better to get the job first, then change. Note no surgery is necessary to swap.

As long as it is recognised as basically a lifestyle choice, I have no problem with it.

[west lakes]

This subject brings up some interesting situations. Though not involved with your industry (see my profile) we actually have 2 transgender employees where I work. To make it more complicated they were father(S) and son(L), which does raise some interesting questions.

Both have the same job titles as myself and both are still carrying out the same duties as before, which in the case of S means out of hours standby (our standby is from normal finishing time at 17:00 until 08:30 or all day Sat & Sun)

What was interesting was the practicalities when S began the process, the problem in the large office she was based in at the time was from female staff who, initially, were uncomfortable with "a bloke wearing a dress" using the female toilets.
I would add that our employer put no difficulties in their way.
The male staff were I would guess bemused.

Some years down the line they are both accepted for who they are and the jobs they do.