Facebook - Virgin Crew
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Virginia
And whilst you may be able to speak several languages, and have a degree, sadly there are a lot of cabin crew who are not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer which are the ones I was thinking of when I was typing. Unfortunately I am guilty of doing something we all do from time to time, stereotyping people just as flapsforty has done in his/her reply.
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No doubt the same virgin facebook groups where the girls all show off their stocking stops, very professional.
HTC
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Personally I think this is the tip of the iceberg.
I can see it coming when employers will ban any mention of their company name on these social networking sites. What may seem like innocent comments between employees can be taken out of context when read by people who may have little understanding of the terminology used or humour shared.
That said, this particular case would appear foolish at the very least.
6
I can see it coming when employers will ban any mention of their company name on these social networking sites. What may seem like innocent comments between employees can be taken out of context when read by people who may have little understanding of the terminology used or humour shared.
That said, this particular case would appear foolish at the very least.
6
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No doubt this group must've been the invite-only group, or at least that's what one would've expected. Leaving a 'staff-only' group open to non-staff is a recipe for disaster. And Facebook... let's not get started on their safety options.
All that aside - I would've loved to have seen some of the comments... :-)
S.
All that aside - I would've loved to have seen some of the comments... :-)
S.
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Virginia
I take offence to Leezyjet's remarks implying that cabin crew are dim-quote: "Pretty stupid thing to do if you ask me - but then they are cabin crew !!"
As cabin crew myself I have a 2:1 degree and also speak several languages.
As cabin crew myself I have a 2:1 degree and also speak several languages.
Just wondering if when you did your degree and got a 2:1 and studied several languages, you came across the word hypocrasy?
I ask this because just before reading your post about how offended you are about any suggestion that CC might be thick, I was reading a post on a thread called "thick passenger comments". You will not believe who had posted on there... someone by the name of Virginia!
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you came across the word hypocrasy?
hypocrasy
A comic misspelling of "hypocrisy" as defined by butthurt forum-goers trying to insult other members. Can be the source of multiple lulz and simultaneous embarrassment by the user trying to appear smart for using a four-syllable word.
"...personally I call that "hypocrasy". Look it up."
"Haha, I can't look it up if it is not spelled right."
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Virgin Cabin crew sacked for insulting airline on face book
Saw the below article
Virgin Atlantic has sacked 13 cabin crew staff after they criticised the airline's safety standards and insulted passengers on a social networking website, it has been revealed. Skip related content
The airline said the employees' behaviour was "totally inappropriate" and "brought the company into disrepute".
In a statement, the airline said: "Virgin Atlantic can confirm that 13 members of its cabin crew will be leaving the company after breaking staff policies due to totally inappropriate behaviour.
"Following a thorough investigation, it was found that all 13 staff participated in a discussion on the networking site Facebook, which brought the company into disrepute and insulted some of our passengers.
"It is impossible for these cabin crew members to uphold the high standards of customer service that Virgin Atlantic is renowned for if they hold these views."
A spokesman for the airline said: "There is a time and a place for Facebook. But there is no justification for it to be used as a sounding board for staff of any company to criticise the very passengers who ultimately pay their salaries.
"Virgin Atlantic staff are known for their world-class customer service and there is no place in our business for anyone who behaves otherwise.
"We have numerous internal channels for our staff to feed back legitimate and appropriate issues relating to the company."
Virgin Atlantic has sacked 13 cabin crew staff after they criticised the airline's safety standards and insulted passengers on a social networking website, it has been revealed. Skip related content
The airline said the employees' behaviour was "totally inappropriate" and "brought the company into disrepute".
In a statement, the airline said: "Virgin Atlantic can confirm that 13 members of its cabin crew will be leaving the company after breaking staff policies due to totally inappropriate behaviour.
"Following a thorough investigation, it was found that all 13 staff participated in a discussion on the networking site Facebook, which brought the company into disrepute and insulted some of our passengers.
"It is impossible for these cabin crew members to uphold the high standards of customer service that Virgin Atlantic is renowned for if they hold these views."
A spokesman for the airline said: "There is a time and a place for Facebook. But there is no justification for it to be used as a sounding board for staff of any company to criticise the very passengers who ultimately pay their salaries.
"Virgin Atlantic staff are known for their world-class customer service and there is no place in our business for anyone who behaves otherwise.
"We have numerous internal channels for our staff to feed back legitimate and appropriate issues relating to the company."
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Do not know the details but see both sides.
Stock markets can rise and fall on mere rumours, so staff opinions can also have a real and direct impact to business. We all have a choice who we work for and I personally believe we are paid not just to do the hours we are paid for, but represent the interests of that company (at the times we choose to be associated with it). Our home time is nothing to do with the company we work for and not any of their business, but when you post messages and declare yourself an employee there is a difference. Others might disagree?
On the other side I love the posts telling us what we all imagine about Celebrity X 'Flew with us the other day and is an absolute star, whilst Y is the biggest assh+le I've ever met'.
With regard to pprune I think most are sensible and professional. Many points of safety are debated here. ALL of the most interesting, contentious and serious issues are debated here. I would not want to be without pprune.
Now a precedent has been set however. I don't want any of the debates on pprune to be responsible for anybody losing their job. Peoples personal opinions should be respected. I guess with much of the content we have already posted, some lawyers could have a field day if they so chose.
Am sure we are protected by cyberspace in some way (?) but the facebook incident has set a precedent. Can there be a disclaimer on entry to the pprune site that will maintain the anonimity of the often very frank discussions held here?
I personally do not want to lose pprune. The idiots that post garbage always get shot down in flames within a few posts from our many knowledgable and respected colleagues. It is very very effective self censorship. That does not exist on the likes of facebook.
Organisations spend huge sums of money to impart knowledge, awareness, attention to detail, experience and other information to their staff whilst pprune does all of this for free (to them).
In the UK, the standard police caution declares "Anything you do say may be given in evidence".
Can the entry screen to pprune have the statement "Anything you do say may NOT be given in evidence".
If that is not a possibilty then all posters need to consider the messages they post. If companies in our industry take comments on facebook so seriously, then make no mistake, they are looking here too. pprune has a history of accuracy.
Part of me thinks that immunity will make pprune worse. Frankness is welcomed but if totally immune I fear we don't see every disgruntled employee posting garbage about every tunround. How their boss annoyed them. When they forgot their pass. A pilot that didn't make selection. A bumpy flight. Cold food last Tuesday. Bad crew rostering last Thursday. We would have 300'000 garbage posts a day!
Comments all?
Stock markets can rise and fall on mere rumours, so staff opinions can also have a real and direct impact to business. We all have a choice who we work for and I personally believe we are paid not just to do the hours we are paid for, but represent the interests of that company (at the times we choose to be associated with it). Our home time is nothing to do with the company we work for and not any of their business, but when you post messages and declare yourself an employee there is a difference. Others might disagree?
On the other side I love the posts telling us what we all imagine about Celebrity X 'Flew with us the other day and is an absolute star, whilst Y is the biggest assh+le I've ever met'.
With regard to pprune I think most are sensible and professional. Many points of safety are debated here. ALL of the most interesting, contentious and serious issues are debated here. I would not want to be without pprune.
Now a precedent has been set however. I don't want any of the debates on pprune to be responsible for anybody losing their job. Peoples personal opinions should be respected. I guess with much of the content we have already posted, some lawyers could have a field day if they so chose.
Am sure we are protected by cyberspace in some way (?) but the facebook incident has set a precedent. Can there be a disclaimer on entry to the pprune site that will maintain the anonimity of the often very frank discussions held here?
I personally do not want to lose pprune. The idiots that post garbage always get shot down in flames within a few posts from our many knowledgable and respected colleagues. It is very very effective self censorship. That does not exist on the likes of facebook.
Organisations spend huge sums of money to impart knowledge, awareness, attention to detail, experience and other information to their staff whilst pprune does all of this for free (to them).
In the UK, the standard police caution declares "Anything you do say may be given in evidence".
Can the entry screen to pprune have the statement "Anything you do say may NOT be given in evidence".
If that is not a possibilty then all posters need to consider the messages they post. If companies in our industry take comments on facebook so seriously, then make no mistake, they are looking here too. pprune has a history of accuracy.
Part of me thinks that immunity will make pprune worse. Frankness is welcomed but if totally immune I fear we don't see every disgruntled employee posting garbage about every tunround. How their boss annoyed them. When they forgot their pass. A pilot that didn't make selection. A bumpy flight. Cold food last Tuesday. Bad crew rostering last Thursday. We would have 300'000 garbage posts a day!
Comments all?
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Big difference - PPrune is anonymous, Facebook is very clearly not anonymous, and these people displayed their names and the company they were discussing very prominently. I can understand Virgin Atlantic's point on this.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Can there be a disclaimer on entry to the pprune site that will maintain the anonimity of the often very frank discussions held here?
Bold lettering is mine to emphasise the point
Although this PPRuNe does not and cannot review the messages posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we at PPRuNe reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless PPRuNe, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited (the makers of the bulletin board software), and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). We at
PPRuNe
also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.
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Your quote was quicker than I expected...and of course I did tick the box.
So now we all have clarification fellow posters.
P.S. Man U are still ****e...and Alex looks like a ghost!
Mrs. Rooney?....no I don't dare.
So now we all have clarification fellow posters.
P.S. Man U are still ****e...and Alex looks like a ghost!
Mrs. Rooney?....no I don't dare.
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Of course you ticked the box - we all did. If we didn't, then we wouldn't be here. West lakes actually asked "you did read them before ticking the box, didnt you?"
I don't know both sides of the story either, however I'm afraid I agree with the motion that this is what they deserved. You can't slag your employer and your customers (who pay your wages) off on an international website where all you say is linked to your name (therefore identifying yourself) and expect to get away with it. There is a time and a place for expressing grievances... In my experience, its down the pub with your mates...
I don't know both sides of the story either, however I'm afraid I agree with the motion that this is what they deserved. You can't slag your employer and your customers (who pay your wages) off on an international website where all you say is linked to your name (therefore identifying yourself) and expect to get away with it. There is a time and a place for expressing grievances... In my experience, its down the pub with your mates...
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Well, the topic title is a bit misleading since it was not the airline who was insulted, but rather its customers. The airline was brought into disrepute, which is somewhat different.
The brouhaha would not be an issue if the Facebook group this occurred on was private (i.e. invite only). But since we don't know about those circumstances, we can't speculate. Clearly VS feels very strongly about its perceived reputation, especially where 'lacking' service is concerned.
Oh well.
S.
The brouhaha would not be an issue if the Facebook group this occurred on was private (i.e. invite only). But since we don't know about those circumstances, we can't speculate. Clearly VS feels very strongly about its perceived reputation, especially where 'lacking' service is concerned.
Oh well.
S.
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re sacked cabin crew
Let us also not forget that the actions of these idiots would have made things very uncomfortable for crews who had to work on flights following the media reporting , what where these guys thinking ? ! that its ok to make outrageous allegations and claims , to insult the people who provide them with their income ?
Even now there are people who are defending what they did and are sad and upset that they have been sacked, they brought it upon themselves .
Even now there are people who are defending what they did and are sad and upset that they have been sacked, they brought it upon themselves .
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Confidentiality
Most companies, and I presume Virgin included, will often have a confidentiality clause in the employees' contract of employment saying something along the lines of the 'company's affairs remain private and should not be discussed elsewhere, especially with third parties'.
The Virgin employees have 'gobbed' off, be it a whinge or a moan. Unfortunately for them, they do so in writing which provides ample hard evidence in any disciplinary hearing of any alleged misdemeanour. If it was a conversation which was overheard, they could have argued that it was misinterpreted, hearsey, etc, and possibly got a severe reprimand. Not knowing the inner workings of Facebook, I can only assume they didn't cover their tracks too well with regard to their real identities.
Moral of the story, especially in the current economic climate, keep your mouth shut and be careful where you vent your feelings.
The Virgin employees have 'gobbed' off, be it a whinge or a moan. Unfortunately for them, they do so in writing which provides ample hard evidence in any disciplinary hearing of any alleged misdemeanour. If it was a conversation which was overheard, they could have argued that it was misinterpreted, hearsey, etc, and possibly got a severe reprimand. Not knowing the inner workings of Facebook, I can only assume they didn't cover their tracks too well with regard to their real identities.
Moral of the story, especially in the current economic climate, keep your mouth shut and be careful where you vent your feelings.
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Good
[Assuming that this is being reported correctly and the Facebook page did indeed contain the comments attributed to VS staff]
Sorry to be harsh but, speaking as a humble SLF who has flown many, many times with Virgin, and generally enjoyed it hugely
people like that have no place in a service industry.
There is only one thing worse than staff publicly dissing their company and that is staff dissing their customers. It's totally out of order and completely unforgivable. To do both is just [career] suicide.
My one and only 'flight from hell' on Virgin was crewed by just these kind of muppets. Who started off by treating all those pax within earshot of the rear galley/crew seats to a long and obscenity-ridden discussion about their Ts&Cs
And, if it were possible, (it was !!!) their behaviour ensured that things went downhill from there.
I do not for one second want to see the fear/guilt/grassing-on-colleagues culture that seems to be encouraged / prevalant amongst CC in certain non-European airlines, and certainly not where CC are constantly in fear of their jobs for fear of breathing. That is not the way things should be going.
At the same time though, CC are the very public face of an airline, whether on the aircraft or via the internet. They have a duty and a responsibility to uphold and maintain the public face of their employer so in this instance I think VS are more than justified in their response to what their staff have done.
CS
Sorry to be harsh but, speaking as a humble SLF who has flown many, many times with Virgin, and generally enjoyed it hugely
people like that have no place in a service industry.There is only one thing worse than staff publicly dissing their company and that is staff dissing their customers. It's totally out of order and completely unforgivable. To do both is just [career] suicide.
My one and only 'flight from hell' on Virgin was crewed by just these kind of muppets. Who started off by treating all those pax within earshot of the rear galley/crew seats to a long and obscenity-ridden discussion about their Ts&Cs
And, if it were possible, (it was !!!) their behaviour ensured that things went downhill from there.I do not for one second want to see the fear/guilt/grassing-on-colleagues culture that seems to be encouraged / prevalant amongst CC in certain non-European airlines, and certainly not where CC are constantly in fear of their jobs for fear of breathing. That is not the way things should be going.
At the same time though, CC are the very public face of an airline, whether on the aircraft or via the internet. They have a duty and a responsibility to uphold and maintain the public face of their employer so in this instance I think VS are more than justified in their response to what their staff have done.
CS
cheerful pessimist
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For a soupcon of an idea about what they may have said on Facebook, you can look at this article in the Sun.
Virgin Atlantic launch investigation after crew members brand passengers "chavs" and insult aircraft on a Facebook group | The Sun |News
Silly billies if they really did talk about such things like that.
Virgin Atlantic launch investigation after crew members brand passengers "chavs" and insult aircraft on a Facebook group | The Sun |News
Silly billies if they really did talk about such things like that.
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For a soupcon of an idea about what they may have said on Facebook, you can look at this article in the Sun.
Virgin Atlantic launch investigation after crew members brand passengers "chavs" and insult aircraft on a Facebook group | The Sun |News
Silly billies if they really did talk about such things like that.
Virgin Atlantic launch investigation after crew members brand passengers "chavs" and insult aircraft on a Facebook group | The Sun |News
Silly billies if they really did talk about such things like that.