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The Virgin Strike Thread II

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The Virgin Strike Thread II

Old 2nd Jan 2008, 15:12
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by red_eye_rat
Open questions to all. What deal is being looked for? And please a little more detail than 'fair', 'just', 'deserved' etc. Lets hear about facts and figures. Reading the posts here and elsewhere on the web give a very confused message.
Unfortunately you won't get an answer to this, because there are no specific demands from the Union to the Company. All they're after is something 'better'. As they can't define what 'better' means, who knows exactly what they would settle for? Remember, they told the members that they'd already got the best deal they could get when they 'strongly recommended' the last offer. As you say, it's a mess!

016FSM Whether anyone has officially said this or not, if sufficient crew email the Union then they will have to take notice. At the very least it may prompt them to re-enter discussions with the Company, which must be a good thing. It's got to be worth a try.
Digitalis is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 16:57
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 12
From a BA dolly..

Best of luck to all at Virgin. Stand up for what you believe you are worth, don't be bullied into submission. Don't prostitute yourselves for sweetners to cross the picket line-you devalue yourselves and those who are fighting for a better future. Yes, you knew what salary you would be paid when you signed up but that does not mean that you can't negotiate a pay rise that is a realistic reflexion of the work that you do, the service you deliver and the repeat business that you bring to Branson.
YONGE is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 17:30
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: row 8
Posts: 127
Look, you guys knew what the pay was when you joined Virgin. If you didn't like the salary, why take the job? Let's be honest, you took the job (and no doubt were delighted to be offered it) because you wanted to work for Virgin and undoubtedly many of you (particularly of the female persuasion) because you hoped to meet Richard .... be honest now.

And if you feel the pay increases have not been sufficient then you have an option. LEAVE!

Striking is a thing of the past ... flat hats, miners, union leaders from up north ... this is 2008, wake up!
wapses is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 17:44
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: 33000ft
Posts: 60
well i certianly didnt apply to work as crew to "meet richard." Ha ha get real,

G.G

(big up the italian stallian and his princess!)
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 19:27
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: manchester
Posts: 3
Wapses, have been an avid follower of this thread and you have managed to turn me into a poster

Joining VAA to meet RB??!!!!

As for your run of the mill comments in the "you knew what the salary was..." vain, may I just reply that yes indeed I did know what the salary was TWELVE years ago when I joined, much like an office junior does, however as an on board "manager" I would expect to be payed like one, much like an office junior who climbs the ranks to office manager!!

Mind you, doesn't look like anyone will take your post seriously, even GG laughing!!
dorisday is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 20:44
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: soon to be grounded
Posts: 28
So what are the Company offering me and what could my first "strike day" be like if I come to work,

I may get in my pocket if I turn up for work on a strike day with
up to 4 crew down a extra 210 once tax and Ni is taken out...!

So what will my day be like........?

A possible bad nights sleep the night before wondering what tomorrow brings ? Do even the company Know.....?
Will I have tension in my shoulders as I put on my uniform ?
Catching the bus and seeing other virgin crew and looking into there faces..? What will they be thinking and will they be frighten just like me..?
What will crew check in be like..........?
What will the breifing be like..............?
Will the flight be crew down....How many.. Flights are full......?Could the flight be delayed or even cancelled..?
Who will I be working with and what dept are they from...?

Just thinking about it sends shivers up my spine, So for me this already sounds like a day from hell and not what normally I would look forward to. This will be a sad day full of stress and thats just the start of it..... got to face my passengers now.....?


I'm staying at home.........!
virgin dolly is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 21:52
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 16
Well it 's another day nearer to that day where we can all decide to come to work or go on the various picket lines that will form around LHR/LGW/MAN.

Virgin Dolly, you say a lot of what people are thinking. It will be daunting to come to work, but remember, any crew that you look at, work with, FSM's in the briefing and anyone that you come into contact with amongst the work place are there because they want to be and they don't want the damage to the company that this stirke will bring.

I predict that anyone working will have a nice day/flight and feel that they are sticking together, the same as people striking will feel the same.

They are also people that want more money and hope for an end to this strike/mess that we are in.

I for one as an FSM will make my briefing as normal, upbeat and fun as it always is. I also know that people will pull together and make this a good day.

I am a person (just in their 40's 016FSM) who respects anyone who makes a decision that they feel is correct. I won't damm someone that strikes, someone that stands on the picket line or someone that may want to call me a scab or through an egg at me (beware I've got muscles and will fight back lol).

What I am trying to say is that I am doing what I feel is the right thing to do on the 9/10th and 16/17th. For me that is going to work and supporting a company that I love working for.

I know that striking will only decrease any pay offer now and in the future that we may get and anyone on here who thinks that this '11th' hour deal is going to come need to think again.

Incentives to fly, cancelling flights on all the strike days, putting up notices on the VS website, re-booking paxs etc is not something a company does who are going to sort this out before the stirke date. This is something that a company does who are going to see this through (whatever the damage) and make drastic changes at the end of it, whenever that will be.

They need to get someone in from the outside who will dicate what will happen. An arbitrator will be the one to end this. How sad that they couldn't do this on their own, however it's not just the management to blame, it's our union. A union who has never asked me what I want, what % payrise I want and what I think is a good offer. Also a union who have never communicated to me over the past few weeks and have had no representation in the crew rooms at all.

I even heard that some of them were trying to swap their flights for days off on the affected days so they don't have to strike, how's that for support.

Whatever you deceide to do good luck to you. I won't ask you a harder question in my briefing for supporting a stirke. What I ask of crew wanting to stirke is you also don't hassle people who are coming to work. We are all trying to do what we think is right, whatever that may be.

People coming to work, don't worry. Picket lines not at the crew rooms and I'm sure there will be support in getting people to work.

People on the line, good luck to you. If that's what you think is right then you are doing the right thing. As we all are.

Take care
x
Virgin89 is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 22:18
  #248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 138
So what are the Company offering me and what could my first "strike day" be like if I come to work,

I may get in my pocket if I turn up for work on a strike day with
up to 4 crew down a extra 210 once tax and Ni is taken out...!

So what will my day be like........?

A possible bad nights sleep the night before wondering what tomorrow brings ? Do even the company Know.....?
Will I have tension in my shoulders as I put on my uniform ?
Catching the bus and seeing other virgin crew and looking into there faces..? What will they be thinking and will they be frighten just like me..?
What will crew check in be like..........?
What will the breifing be like..............?
Will the flight be crew down....How many.. Flights are full......?Could the flight be delayed or even cancelled..?
Who will I be working with and what dept are they from...?

Just thinking about it sends shivers up my spine, So for me this already sounds like a day from hell and not what normally I would look forward to. This will be a sad day full of stress and thats just the start of it..... got to face my passengers now.....?

I'm staying at home.........!
Dolly,

As Virgin89 has said, the people who will be joining you on the flight will be people for whatever reason, want to be there. If you decide to work on a strike day, I suspect the camaraderie onboard will be stronger than usual. It won't be a normal work day, but you will have the support of a team who are 'all in it together'.

Do not worry that you'll be staring into the eyeballs of strikers from the crew bus; Virgin will ensure you anonymity is preserved. And if the flight is crew down, then you'll benefit from additional payments to compensate you for the extra effort you'll be putting in.

Stay at home only if you want to strike; not as a reason to avoid it. Remember, by staying away from work, Virgin will assume you are a striker.
vs_lhr is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 22:26
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 26
True

I think on the days that the strike happen there will be a great atmosphere onboard, you will be working with a team who all enjoy there jobs and want to get on with something they enjoy.

As soon as the aircraft doors are closed and your on your way you can forget about whats happening on the ground, in fact you can wave to your colleagues at Hatton Cross, because they will be the losers!

They will have lost alot of pay thats for sure and you will be the one right fully earning it.

If you wanna go to work then go, once you have checked in it wont be that bad onboard.

Your customers will be so happy that your getting them to there destination.
Virginfun is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 22:32
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London
Posts: 57


I think that was put very nicely Virgin89 and made a lot of sense! By the way, you ARE older than me If you're in your 40's, i've just reached the BIG 4 0!!
I too will be flying on the 9th 10th and will make sure that the crew with whom I'm flying, are given all the support that they need to do their jobs as well as they always do. I feel it's the right choice for ME and I have thought about it very carefully and have spent many hours reading this chat room and cabincrew.com in order to try to make the right decision. I've made it and I feel it's the right one. The company HAVE helped me in times when I really needed help with one thing or another over the years, they have always treated me well and I've had a very happy career flying for Virgin. I'm always skint and my kids shop in Oxfam (yeah right....) but what can I do

I still believe that we should be paid like managers and have a better wage and that our terms and conditions need to be addressed, but I don't think striking is the answer. RB's comments are shameful, they may apply to those who have been in the company only a couple of years, but as Doris Day quite rightly said, when you climb the ladder in a company, you deserve to be paid accordingly.

Having said that, I can't turn my back on a company who have looked after me pretty well for 21 years of my life!!
016FSM is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 22:52
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 26
excellent news 016FSM

Now we can get the strike over and done with and start proper talks in April.

We should start by getting rid of Brian useless Boyd and changing the union. Also some of the VAA reps need to go too!!
Virginfun is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 22:57
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 138
I still believe that we should be paid like managers and have a better wage and that our terms and conditions need to be addressed, but I don't think striking is the answer. RB's comments are shameful, they may apply to those who have been in the company only a couple of years, but as Doris Day quite rightly said, when you climb the ladder in a company, you deserve to be paid accordingly.

Having said that, I can't turn my back on a company who have looked after me pretty well for 21 years of my life!!


Well said. I agree with you 100%.
vs_lhr is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:12
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: crawley
Posts: 22
All those planning to go to work on strike days, the demise of any future terms will solely be down to you. The union will have zero neogtiating power moving forward once YOU demonstrate you have a price.

Your short term gains will be all of our LONG TERM losses.

That is simply what it boil down to. Years to build a union with a good member count and you destroy it overnight.... GO FIGURE !

You tell me how you think the above will not be the case ?
VCCM is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:16
  #254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 138
You tell me how you think the above will not be the case ?
Possibly because the company have already figured out how to run a largely unaffected schedule based on all those that voted to strike not showing up for work.

The support was fragmented to begin with. Rather than blaming others for the lack of negotiating power, why not look to the union, who managed to screw this up royally by not knowing what they were bargaining for.
vs_lhr is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:17
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 24
The UNION has already been destroyed!!! It has no credibility left. Go figure that. If it did we would not be in this position now!!!
magicE is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:19
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 26
VCCM Richard Branson has just said if you want more money go elsewhere!!

GO FIGURE!!! your not gonna get any more money by going on strike, but good luck to you if you think you will still get something.

Ill wave to you on my way to work as I pass the picket line, thats of course if your brave enough to stand at one of them.

Or will you be using the strike as a day off and sitting at home??

Virginfun is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:24
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: crawley
Posts: 22
And so next year if/when virgin reduces trip pay, cuts allowances, lowers pay , but the union no longer has a following because everyone ignores it's advice, what will you say then, " oh well at least I made 200 last year for working on a strike day", And eveyone else suffers.

Granted this could of been handled a lot lot better, but If anyone thinks things are marginally bad now, and treated with no respect wait and see what happens zero representation or a company that no longer fears the weight of a unionised workforce. Ryanair will look like a walk in the park.

As for does the company look likes its preparing to talk, of course it doesnt, you do what you do to try and make the crew back down.

Tell me how you think otherwise regarding spiral reduction in pay and terms in Virgin if we do not stand firmly with the union but sell our souls ?
VCCM is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:30
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: crawley
Posts: 22
Yes virginfun I will be at home, until I hear from the union re picket lines, I dont know how effective they will be if they are miles away from crew entrance areas. I wait for advice.

In a years time when our terms get slashed you will look in the mirror sobbing saying, " b.. buuu..buuuu b...uuut I way loyal, I didnt strike, sob, sob",I dont deserve a pay cut". They wont give a stuff. By not following the union you might as well give half your pay packet back to the "Virgin Management fund Charity" now becasue you are writing off any negotiating power moving forward and probably self fullfilling a pay cut this time next year.

again,tell me your logic to defy this because I havent seen any so far !
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:31
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 138
Tell me how you think otherwise regarding spiral reduction in pay and terms in Virgin if we do not stand firmly with the union but sell our souls ?
The fact is, this is a lost cause before it starts. So make the best of it now and take the money.

Then, at the earliest opportunity, sack Unite and re-group with a better union who know what communication is about and have the balls to ask the management for what you want, not given the company the impression everything is rosy and they have a deal their members will accept (when the haven't asked, and STILL haven't asked, what their members want).

This is now like that final scene in Carry On At Your Convenience. The strike is futile - just get back to the job (presumably you enjoy) and learn from the mistakes this time round. Yes, you lost out on the 4.8%, but that was an error of your own making because some people where under the impression there was more money in the pot without doing the maths.
vs_lhr is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2008, 23:33
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Crawley
Posts: 34
I have resisted posting for a while, mainly because this is a very emotive issue, and the passion we all feel regarding our decisions can lead to things becoming a tad argumentative.

However as a CSS I will be working over the strike days, and have volunteered to help out where I can. I don't like the tone of SRB's letter but perhaps it was the kick we all needed. For far too long we have been told by Cabin Crew Management how fantastic we are - look at any copy of PTT, or correspondance from LM (who I happen to think has done quite a good job since she has been here - regardless of what you think of her, speak to her and she is very crew friendly - but her resources are not limitless). All of them contain some element of how great we are. We only need to look at x-plane or GAP results and in general we are on a downward spiral - look at the service brief sheets - on most routes we are below target. I am not necessarily saying that we are doing a bad job, far from it, but after years of being told how great we are, and that we are the reason people fly Virgin, perhaps a short sharp shock from SRB is called for. I have to say that some of the comments posted on here augment what many of our passengers believe - that they are an inconvenience to the crew.

016FSM - when you first starting posting on here I was a little dismayed at your thought process, but I think it shows real courage to look at things from both sides and make an INFORMED decision. I am really glad that you can see the bigger picture - no pay deal, regardless of company or industry, should be about a quick fix.

Virgin89 - as always a pleasure to read your balanced views, and its good to see someone who can reason maturely about the impending strike without mudslinging.

Monkeybusiness 2 - your post really saddens me, and it is that immature, selfish and misinformed attitude which has resulted in us being at this stage in industrial action. I am your colleague - I respect your right to strike, please do not hurl names around such as "scab" - it is disrespectful and achieves very little.

However as a last point, I would like to say that I am in no way interested in participating in said action. If there was a ballot to demand the resignation of the Union Reps and BB, then I know what I would be voting for. No-one can deny that the company met the requests of the Union - its just a shame that the Union had no knowledge of what the Crew actually wanted, and if I was a Rep, on a professional basis, as well as a personal basis, I would be mortified.

All of the above pales into insignificance when I think of the reasons I was employed - its my job to ensure that I maintain standards ensuring repeat business and that is what I intend to do. I am one of the very few who is actually very happy with my salary and conditions.

Good luck with whatever decisions you all make, but lets not bring this down to an even more base level.
Jcdcon is offline  

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