The Virgin Strike Thread (Merged)
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Just to point out, the grease monkeys are as we speak negotiating through Brian Boyd and Unite the union to have recognition in their depatrment.
here here vsfsm, well said, so u engineers who are slagging us off now, ur now trying to get a union eh? and how long till u ask for more( which is reasonable) so please dont slag us off.
That is amazing! The best bit of B*****ks we've heard yet. I've just had a straw poll of the whole nightshift, including the supervisor, and they are not aware of it. Our Staff Committe have told us nothing of it, nor have we requested them to look into joining a union.
Looking at the way Unite have acted with you guys, what even makes you think we'd want to join them. My colleague just added that he wouldn't p**s on Boyd if he was on fire (direct quotation).
No I'm sorry VSFSM, I think you need to very quickly state your source of this information please, as I'd say that LGW for sure is not aware of this. In fact a quick review of the Staff Committe Notes on our notice board show no reference to this.
If you are trying to belittle your engineering department and the views of its members by stating lies as facts, then not only are you very misguided, but very stupid.
Think carefully of your answer, you very much need to clarify the allegations you made in your post.
here here vsfsm, well said, so u engineers who are slagging us off now, ur now trying to get a union eh? and how long till u ask for more( which is reasonable) so please dont slag us off.
That is amazing! The best bit of B*****ks we've heard yet. I've just had a straw poll of the whole nightshift, including the supervisor, and they are not aware of it. Our Staff Committe have told us nothing of it, nor have we requested them to look into joining a union.
Looking at the way Unite have acted with you guys, what even makes you think we'd want to join them. My colleague just added that he wouldn't p**s on Boyd if he was on fire (direct quotation).
No I'm sorry VSFSM, I think you need to very quickly state your source of this information please, as I'd say that LGW for sure is not aware of this. In fact a quick review of the Staff Committe Notes on our notice board show no reference to this.
If you are trying to belittle your engineering department and the views of its members by stating lies as facts, then not only are you very misguided, but very stupid.
Think carefully of your answer, you very much need to clarify the allegations you made in your post.
Last edited by Fournier Boy; 22nd Dec 2007 at 00:18. Reason: to make easier to read
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Virign Atlantic Cabin Crew vote to strike in January 2008
Apparently the Virgin Atlantic dollies are downing tools in January. I wonder what Sir Dickie will do about this? I think the management will capitulate as they're well know to have poor pay when compared to other UK crew. I believe they're planning two 48 hour actions.
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Guys, I wish you all the best with your action to receive a liveable london wage.
At BA we have decent pay and good conditions. But this isn't because BA is a fantastic employer that wants to throw money at us to retain us. It is down to ONE issue: the strength of our union. And the strength of our union is down to the percentage of members that are part of it.
The best thing any of you at Virgin can do is to motivate ALL the crew to join the union. I think at BA about 92% of us are in BASSA. At our last vote for industrial action, 96.1% of BASSA members voted for industrial action - on an eighty something percent return.
In other words, a strike would have completely grounded the airline.
A friend of mine has a flight booked with Virgin for January to NYC. He received an email today basically saying that nearly all flights would still operate on the strike dates. I think there was literally 4 or 5 cancellations listed.
I guess unfortunately for you guys striking, Virgin will still be able to maintain a decent operation due to the amount of crew who are not in a union and are not legally entitled to strike.
At BA we have decent pay and good conditions. But this isn't because BA is a fantastic employer that wants to throw money at us to retain us. It is down to ONE issue: the strength of our union. And the strength of our union is down to the percentage of members that are part of it.
The best thing any of you at Virgin can do is to motivate ALL the crew to join the union. I think at BA about 92% of us are in BASSA. At our last vote for industrial action, 96.1% of BASSA members voted for industrial action - on an eighty something percent return.
In other words, a strike would have completely grounded the airline.
A friend of mine has a flight booked with Virgin for January to NYC. He received an email today basically saying that nearly all flights would still operate on the strike dates. I think there was literally 4 or 5 cancellations listed.
I guess unfortunately for you guys striking, Virgin will still be able to maintain a decent operation due to the amount of crew who are not in a union and are not legally entitled to strike.
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There are 3100+ Unite members, who have all been called to back the action, regardless of how they voted.
If people who carry out this action increase the company's offer, will those people who do not back the strike, surrender any increase over 2%?
If people who carry out this action increase the company's offer, will those people who do not back the strike, surrender any increase over 2%?
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Why has nobody replied to MakingaSplash regarding his/her question. It seems to me to be the best post in the whole thread.
What do you want, does anybody know. What did the union ask for on your behalf. I can understand industrial action if the company offered jack s%*t in comparison but if the union asked for a 4.8% increase than whats all the fuss about.
If the problem lies with the added conditions such as extra standby etc, you have to see it from the other point of view. Ok, we can all say that the company is going to try and give the least possible, i'd be worried if they were not, but in order to give you what you want(again does anybody actually know)there must be some sacrifice. Crew down is a major problem and must be sorted out and its not just a case of employing more staff, as somebody said earlier, there are already more crew than required IF there was a normal amount of sickness. ( I must say if i was crew and i knew of people constantly taking time off when they were not actually ill, i would have serious words with them, because at the end of the day it is them that are for one, making you work harder (no crewrest) and two, effectively taking money away from the company that could go in your pocket in one way or another(Airshare, payrise etc...))
Also, why did your union first support the offer made and then change its mind(do they know what you want)? To me they seem totally incapable of what you pay them to do and would seriously think about writing some strong letters to them to tell them to sort thier act out.
Lastly i would say this. Personally i dont think you made the right choice, you would have done better to accept this offer then fight for your conditions at a later date, because now you will recieve the same 2% that everyone got because the impact this will have on the company is negligable. I do think that your are under paid but feel that alot you forget that if you include all those allowances(yes i know they are going down before anyone gripes) then it is NOT THAT BAD. Again i will say you are underpaid and think you should get more but 4.8% is pretty good in my book. Keep getting that every 2 years or so and you'll have all the flight deck swapping jobs, i daresay alot of you could do theirs.
I also know that i'm now going to be told that when it comes down to mortgages etc... its the basic that counts and what you can get with a basic of £11,000 is the best part of bugger all. But am i right in saying that now you can include your allowances for this type of stuff and wasn't that part of th deal (please correct me if i'm wrong, i'm not totally sure about this).
You know what, i'm gonna carry on as i'm on a roll.
If this is all correct, if 4.8% is good enough on the Pay increase, Basic and trip pay etc.... the problem must lie with the conditions that are included with it.
Can some one list these so that i can understand better. What is the problem with standby????
This is the last bit, honestly. I think that this whole affair has aready done so much damage to our business, not publically or monitary but from within and to its own staff and i mean everyone. Unfortunately there are quite a few people especially on this site that dont think before they say or write things and when it come to peoples livelyhood they should. Alot of people are calling these select few people CREW as a whole and the whole crew will suffer as a result.
(Sorry if that does not make any sense, i've been up all night and i'm tired).
And finally as spacecadet put it, the mangement should never have left it to get to this point. If only they had tried to speak to you properly and understand and not throw their handbag out of the pram
and slip in a dig at the end of each letter they write to you, then i feel this could have all been avoided and i could be asleep by now.
Again please correct me if i am wrong regarding anything and probably everything i have said.
Good afternoon, good evening and GOODNIGHT
What do you want, does anybody know. What did the union ask for on your behalf. I can understand industrial action if the company offered jack s%*t in comparison but if the union asked for a 4.8% increase than whats all the fuss about.
If the problem lies with the added conditions such as extra standby etc, you have to see it from the other point of view. Ok, we can all say that the company is going to try and give the least possible, i'd be worried if they were not, but in order to give you what you want(again does anybody actually know)there must be some sacrifice. Crew down is a major problem and must be sorted out and its not just a case of employing more staff, as somebody said earlier, there are already more crew than required IF there was a normal amount of sickness. ( I must say if i was crew and i knew of people constantly taking time off when they were not actually ill, i would have serious words with them, because at the end of the day it is them that are for one, making you work harder (no crewrest) and two, effectively taking money away from the company that could go in your pocket in one way or another(Airshare, payrise etc...))
Also, why did your union first support the offer made and then change its mind(do they know what you want)? To me they seem totally incapable of what you pay them to do and would seriously think about writing some strong letters to them to tell them to sort thier act out.
Lastly i would say this. Personally i dont think you made the right choice, you would have done better to accept this offer then fight for your conditions at a later date, because now you will recieve the same 2% that everyone got because the impact this will have on the company is negligable. I do think that your are under paid but feel that alot you forget that if you include all those allowances(yes i know they are going down before anyone gripes) then it is NOT THAT BAD. Again i will say you are underpaid and think you should get more but 4.8% is pretty good in my book. Keep getting that every 2 years or so and you'll have all the flight deck swapping jobs, i daresay alot of you could do theirs.
I also know that i'm now going to be told that when it comes down to mortgages etc... its the basic that counts and what you can get with a basic of £11,000 is the best part of bugger all. But am i right in saying that now you can include your allowances for this type of stuff and wasn't that part of th deal (please correct me if i'm wrong, i'm not totally sure about this).
You know what, i'm gonna carry on as i'm on a roll.
If this is all correct, if 4.8% is good enough on the Pay increase, Basic and trip pay etc.... the problem must lie with the conditions that are included with it.
Can some one list these so that i can understand better. What is the problem with standby????
This is the last bit, honestly. I think that this whole affair has aready done so much damage to our business, not publically or monitary but from within and to its own staff and i mean everyone. Unfortunately there are quite a few people especially on this site that dont think before they say or write things and when it come to peoples livelyhood they should. Alot of people are calling these select few people CREW as a whole and the whole crew will suffer as a result.
(Sorry if that does not make any sense, i've been up all night and i'm tired).
And finally as spacecadet put it, the mangement should never have left it to get to this point. If only they had tried to speak to you properly and understand and not throw their handbag out of the pram
and slip in a dig at the end of each letter they write to you, then i feel this could have all been avoided and i could be asleep by now.Again please correct me if i am wrong regarding anything and probably everything i have said.
Good afternoon, good evening and GOODNIGHT
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If people who carry out this action increase the company's offer, will those people who do not back the strike, surrender any increase over 2%?
From the BBC News this morning;
Thousands of workers are being short-changed by firms who refuse to pay the national minimum wage, a survey for union organisation the TUC found.
Around 150,000 staff are being denied rate of £5.52 an hour for adults and £4.60 for 18 to 21-year-olds, it says.
Those in restaurants, hotels, cleaning, hairdressing and childcare were said to be the most likely to be underpaid.
Around 150,000 staff are being denied rate of £5.52 an hour for adults and £4.60 for 18 to 21-year-olds, it says.
Those in restaurants, hotels, cleaning, hairdressing and childcare were said to be the most likely to be underpaid.
For those withoutthe data, the CAA list the average crew earning for each airline they are:-
BMI 12.9K VS 13.3K XL 15.1K Thomas Cook 15.4K Monarch 15.5K Thompson 15.7K My travel 16.5K ist Choice 18.7 K Easyet 19.3K and......................B.A. 27.9K !!!
BMI 12.9K VS 13.3K XL 15.1K Thomas Cook 15.4K Monarch 15.5K Thompson 15.7K My travel 16.5K ist Choice 18.7 K Easyet 19.3K and......................B.A. 27.9K !!!
Nobody denies that BA crew earn more; and few would deny that VS crew deserve more. I really do support the crew's desire to earn something closer to the BA rates. However, I also think the increments should be in manageable steps, and that some compromise needs to be made by crew to allow for the increase in salaries. Standby has to change - if for no other reason because of the hideous amount of sickness in crew, and that's a problem of your own making. Benefits will also have to be looked at. It's a simple case of not having your cake and eating it.
The situation we're in now, however, is that greed has pushed everyone in the company into a difficult and dangerous position. Not only will Airshare be in jeopardy, but also other peoples salaries and indeed jobs if the strike bites too hard. The most ludicrous situation is that there still is no clear indication of what the crew demand actually is. Until the crew can say, with one clear voice, exactly what they want, we're in the same situation as the previous negotiation rounds where the union and the company both thought they had agreement.
Now it has reached this stage, neither side can afford to blink first. If the crew give in, then the company know their future negotiations will be powerless. If the company give in, then staff know all they have to do is threaten strikes and that'll cripple the company eventually. Both sides have much to lose, but my guess is the company can ride this out far longer than the crew. Are you ready for the long haul? Pun intended.
Apparently the Virgin Atlantic dollies are downing tools in January. I wonder what Sir Dickie will do about this? I think the management will capitulate as they're well know to have poor pay when compared to other UK crew. I believe they're planning two 48 hour actions.
