The Virgin Strike Thread (Merged)
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oh but hang on thats unfair dismissal if the company hasnt taken reasonable steps to settle the dispute, so, in short we keep on striking and any dismissal is unfair until the company takes reasonable steps.
VS have made every effort to meet the demands of the cabin crew, hence why the union have been recommending their offers.
The law does not require Virgin to make any further offers. They can show that they have already negotiated with the union.
oh but hang on thats unfair dismissal if the company hasnt taken reasonable steps to settle the dispute, so, in short we keep on striking and any dismissal is unfair until the company takes reasonable steps.
VS have made every effort to meet the demands of the cabin crew, hence why the union have been recommending their offers.
The law does not require Virgin to make any further offers. They can show that they have already negotiated with the union.
Why choose eight weeks? I think that the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Mr. Chidgey) and some Conservative Members asked that question on Second Reading. We want to set a period that allows reasonable time for parties to resolve their dispute and so avoid dismissals. In our judgment, eight weeks gives enough time for detailed and serious discussions to occur, possibly involving third parties such as the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service.
Some employers might not use the eight-week period to try to find a settlement. They might sit on their hands and do nothing. Workers must have redress in those circumstances, so clause 15 also gives employees a right to claim unfair dismissal if they have been dismissed after the eight-week period and employers have not engaged in procedures to resolve the dispute.
Those new protections will apply only to industrial action that is official and lawfully organised. We will therefore create a dual set of obligations on the parties. Unions must organise the action in accordance with the law, including the detailed provisions concerning notice and ballots. If they do not, the rights will not apply, which means that employer scan, without the fear of tribunals against them, dismiss those taking unofficial action. Employers are obliged to begin serious negotiations with the union before they can fairly dismiss.
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This makes a good read too
http://www.erylmcnallymep.org.uk/int...ation_of_f.htm
this bit, for those worried
[QUOTE]Ballots for industrial action have changed so that a union will no longer have to provide an employer with a list of names and addresses of employees being balloted. Ballot procedures have been simplified.[/QUOTE]
http://www.erylmcnallymep.org.uk/int...ation_of_f.htm
this bit, for those worried
[QUOTE]Ballots for industrial action have changed so that a union will no longer have to provide an employer with a list of names and addresses of employees being balloted. Ballot procedures have been simplified.[/QUOTE]
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Spot on Scooby.
Well found.
Some people on here think that just because they have nicknames which suggest pilot or engineer that they have an opinion which might not be challenged by lowley cabin crew.
Some of the postees wil do well to remember that a large chunk of our crew have had more education and in some cases are more qualified than some of our pilots and grease monkeys.
Just to point out, the grease monkeys are as we speak negotiating through Brian Boyd and Unite the union to have recognition in their depatrment.
The reason they haven't had it before now is that they accepted a cash bonus a few years ago with a stipulation that they would not look for union recognition.
Quit moaning like bitches and leave this to our unionised department. Come back when you can actually have a say in the running of your depatrment instead of recieving a very long lenght everytime the company feel like it.
Well found.
Some people on here think that just because they have nicknames which suggest pilot or engineer that they have an opinion which might not be challenged by lowley cabin crew.
Some of the postees wil do well to remember that a large chunk of our crew have had more education and in some cases are more qualified than some of our pilots and grease monkeys.
Just to point out, the grease monkeys are as we speak negotiating through Brian Boyd and Unite the union to have recognition in their depatrment.
The reason they haven't had it before now is that they accepted a cash bonus a few years ago with a stipulation that they would not look for union recognition.
Quit moaning like bitches and leave this to our unionised department. Come back when you can actually have a say in the running of your depatrment instead of recieving a very long lenght everytime the company feel like it.
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Can I just ask, what EXACTLY do we want. You can mention more money and better conditions all you like, but what I need is for someone to tell me what precise % or conditions everyone is striking for? This is the one question without which no one can present a united front. The union recommends an offer and then when it get rejected, it recommends a strike, without guidelines of the strike aims. This makes no sense.
I am sure I will get shot down for asking this, but until I have this clear I can't make any sort of decision to even consider striking.
I am sure I will get shot down for asking this, but until I have this clear I can't make any sort of decision to even consider striking.
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To Scooby and Company
What you are all missing is the uncertainty that your actions have created not just within the airline but with business customers who fly in your J class class cabin which is also where you make most of your money. Money you need to invest in with more innovative ideas to keep your airline ahead of the competition. Money you need for new aircraft. Money you need for new routes. Money you need to improve your fleet, services as your competitors close the gap.
You should also be looking ahead to March when Open Skies hits LHR and you will be competing against CO and DL on your key US routes that you need to be profitable. You will have more carriers in a market which is where you need the loyalty of your customers.
As it is you are hell bent on driving us away by expending your energy in a public slanging match with your ground based staff. This is short sighted and shows a lack of respect for your fellow employees.
We would all like more money. I can understand the grief that you all feel but now is not the best time for your Company to have a strike with so much at stake.
What you are all missing is the uncertainty that your actions have created not just within the airline but with business customers who fly in your J class class cabin which is also where you make most of your money. Money you need to invest in with more innovative ideas to keep your airline ahead of the competition. Money you need for new aircraft. Money you need for new routes. Money you need to improve your fleet, services as your competitors close the gap.
You should also be looking ahead to March when Open Skies hits LHR and you will be competing against CO and DL on your key US routes that you need to be profitable. You will have more carriers in a market which is where you need the loyalty of your customers.
As it is you are hell bent on driving us away by expending your energy in a public slanging match with your ground based staff. This is short sighted and shows a lack of respect for your fellow employees.
We would all like more money. I can understand the grief that you all feel but now is not the best time for your Company to have a strike with so much at stake.
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very fair question in my book, everyone wants something different and I hope that most have communicated their requirements to the union by some means or another, for me it was a chin wag and mail to BB who welcomes all phone calls.
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here here vsfsm, well said, so u engineers who are slagging us off now, ur now trying to get a union eh? and how long till u ask for more( which is reasonable) so please dont slag us off, and true what u said, i for 1 have 1 degree, speak 3 languages and have small business , so please stop that " get urself more educated" crap, cause I AM educated, but for the hard work that do onboard i want to be recognised, and like i said i¨ve been too many years now, putting up with virgin saying " NO MONEY SORRY, BUT HEY WE ARE THROWING A PARTY FOR YOU GUYS ISNT THAT ENOUGH" well actually NO!!!!!
I am sorry if i sound agressive in my coments but i really have had it with VS!!!
I am sorry if i sound agressive in my coments but i really have had it with VS!!!
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DA87
I dont think I have been rude at any point throughtout entire debate (except once when I got my feathers ruffled, for which I appologised).
Yes, open skies is coming, but not just to virgin, like sickness it is something every airline does & will have to deal with, if we do not address our issues now it will just be another excuse used at the next negotiations as to why we are not offered a reasonable deal.
As it is you are hell bent on driving us away by expending your energy in a public slanging match with your ground based staff. This is short sighted and shows a lack of respect for your fellow employees
Yes, open skies is coming, but not just to virgin, like sickness it is something every airline does & will have to deal with, if we do not address our issues now it will just be another excuse used at the next negotiations as to why we are not offered a reasonable deal.
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To Dan Air, But when is a good time to ask for more money?
When i started " OR WE ARE SUCH A SMALL COMPANY WE CANT AFFORD" ok
years later, "MMMM GULF WAR, SORRY DIFFICULT TIMES" OK
YEARS ON MASSIVE PROFITS " SORRY HAVE TO INVEST FUTURE" OK
YEARS ON " SORRY 9/11 REALLLLLLY TOUGH NOW" OK!
YEARS ON " OPEN SKY SORRY" well actually NOT OK
ITs excuse after excuse, they can invest on new planes, base, clubhouse, terminal etc, EXCEPT guess what ...... STAFF
well great strategy guys, but dont expect all to follow like sheep!!
When i started " OR WE ARE SUCH A SMALL COMPANY WE CANT AFFORD" ok
years later, "MMMM GULF WAR, SORRY DIFFICULT TIMES" OK
YEARS ON MASSIVE PROFITS " SORRY HAVE TO INVEST FUTURE" OK
YEARS ON " SORRY 9/11 REALLLLLLY TOUGH NOW" OK!
YEARS ON " OPEN SKY SORRY" well actually NOT OK
ITs excuse after excuse, they can invest on new planes, base, clubhouse, terminal etc, EXCEPT guess what ...... STAFF
well great strategy guys, but dont expect all to follow like sheep!!
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vs-lhr, I suppose so, but you (we) probably couldnt afford the insurance so no point 
. As for different reason, no 2 people are the same and all that, everyone has different personal circumstances, I'm sure there is a TOP 10 though.
On the first day of Christmas my union rep said to me...
... more crew down payments, no more standby, hire more staff and a review of alllowannnncees (all to the tune)
on the second day of....
etc etc
. As for different reason, no 2 people are the same and all that, everyone has different personal circumstances, I'm sure there is a TOP 10 though.On the first day of Christmas my union rep said to me...
... more crew down payments, no more standby, hire more staff and a review of alllowannnncees (all to the tune)
on the second day of....
etc etc
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As a pilot with a crew member wife, I fully support the cabin crew along with a vast-vast majority of my collegues.
Virgin will NOT go under, don't believe everything you hear from the management. Just now there will be a propaganda campaign & every department will be looking after their own interests.
There is clearly something fundamentally wrong when such a large proportion of the customer facing staff are so disgruntled.
Hate to say it, but it has been a long time coming. How the management have not recognised this is beyond me!
Virgin will NOT go under, don't believe everything you hear from the management. Just now there will be a propaganda campaign & every department will be looking after their own interests.
There is clearly something fundamentally wrong when such a large proportion of the customer facing staff are so disgruntled.
Hate to say it, but it has been a long time coming. How the management have not recognised this is beyond me!
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Thank you space cadet, someone that supports us, it really is incredible that VS has not realized that all this was coming! they have been deluded for so long thinking we were stupid trolly dollies, who would never stand up for themselves, well FINALLY, ( and im so pround that we have) we have and i hope we will stand and let VS know that we no longer accept excuses and empty promises!!
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"There is clearly something fundamentally wrong when such a large proportion of the customer facing staff are so disgruntled.
Hate to say it, but it has been a long time coming. How the management have not recognised this is beyond me!"
Very well and politely said. But it seems it's not just customer facing staff that are disgruntled. The whole company has changed vastly over the last 3 or 4 years, grown in size and has lost that personal touch. I doubt anyone expects to be greeted by SRB each day, but maybe it's time Senior Management took a little step back and looked at the situation, which may come off the back of what has happened with cabin crew. So please, people like Strike1 - there's no need to slag off other staff and call them naive, and that they have no pride in themselves. Rather rude I thought
After all, we're just trying to do our jobs, and do them well. People on the ground are concerned at what is happening but we all still have to work together to keep this show on the road each day.
Hate to say it, but it has been a long time coming. How the management have not recognised this is beyond me!"
Very well and politely said. But it seems it's not just customer facing staff that are disgruntled. The whole company has changed vastly over the last 3 or 4 years, grown in size and has lost that personal touch. I doubt anyone expects to be greeted by SRB each day, but maybe it's time Senior Management took a little step back and looked at the situation, which may come off the back of what has happened with cabin crew. So please, people like Strike1 - there's no need to slag off other staff and call them naive, and that they have no pride in themselves. Rather rude I thought
After all, we're just trying to do our jobs, and do them well. People on the ground are concerned at what is happening but we all still have to work together to keep this show on the road each day.
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I apologise if i offended any collegues ofcourse, but some of the comments here, just make me want to shout " WAKE UP PEOPLE" cause some comments are really naive to say the least. I get along great with ground staff and mechanics and i would support u 100% if u went on strike, so why not u on us!!!!! if we were all 1 block it would be great, VS would listen all the time, but thats too much of a wish, so now VS is trying to pitch all of us against eachother.
The fact is that airlines are lying thru their teeth, they are posting huge profits, BA 585 million, Air France/ KLM 1 billion Euros, United which was in bankrupcy 2 years ago has had their 3rd ever largest profit in history at 900 million pounds,even Iberia and Alitalia, so pleaseeeeeeeeeeee dont tell me that VS is not making alot but alot of money, when everytime i get onboard J, W are full, I AM NOT A STUPID TROLLY ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!
The fact is that airlines are lying thru their teeth, they are posting huge profits, BA 585 million, Air France/ KLM 1 billion Euros, United which was in bankrupcy 2 years ago has had their 3rd ever largest profit in history at 900 million pounds,even Iberia and Alitalia, so pleaseeeeeeeeeeee dont tell me that VS is not making alot but alot of money, when everytime i get onboard J, W are full, I AM NOT A STUPID TROLLY ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dear Strike1,
As an outsider looking in on what has happened, I find it amazing that VS management has not seen the strike ballot coming.
VS laud, quite rightly, the standard of srvice onboard, provided I might add by the best cabin crew of any airline I have flown on.
Despite this they pay relatively less and less, expecting the crew to work harder and harder, (many up to the legal maximum) and then offer a below inflation payrise which would have been more than covered by taking one of the crew off, thus saving in the region of 8% of wage costs!
VS cabin crew are not a militant group, but when their union twice recommends wage agreements that are voted down there is something terribly wrong.
For those withoutthe data, the CAA list the average crew earning for each airline they are:-
BMI 12.9K VS 13.3K XL 15.1K Thomas Cook 15.4K Monarch 15.5K Thompson 15.7K My travel 16.5K ist Choice 18.7 K Easyet 19.3K and......................B.A. 27.9K !!!
As you can see, VS crew (with the exception of BMI) are under paid by at least 2.0K per year.
I hope that you get the pay and conditions that your dedicated excellent service deserves. If Virgin can lose 29 Million on Virgin Nigeria they can afford to pay you what you deserve.
Regards,
As an outsider looking in on what has happened, I find it amazing that VS management has not seen the strike ballot coming.
VS laud, quite rightly, the standard of srvice onboard, provided I might add by the best cabin crew of any airline I have flown on.
Despite this they pay relatively less and less, expecting the crew to work harder and harder, (many up to the legal maximum) and then offer a below inflation payrise which would have been more than covered by taking one of the crew off, thus saving in the region of 8% of wage costs!
VS cabin crew are not a militant group, but when their union twice recommends wage agreements that are voted down there is something terribly wrong.
For those withoutthe data, the CAA list the average crew earning for each airline they are:-
BMI 12.9K VS 13.3K XL 15.1K Thomas Cook 15.4K Monarch 15.5K Thompson 15.7K My travel 16.5K ist Choice 18.7 K Easyet 19.3K and......................B.A. 27.9K !!!
As you can see, VS crew (with the exception of BMI) are under paid by at least 2.0K per year.
I hope that you get the pay and conditions that your dedicated excellent service deserves. If Virgin can lose 29 Million on Virgin Nigeria they can afford to pay you what you deserve.
Regards,
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Ok Everyone. Just Been On To Phone To A Union Rep And He Makes It All Very Clear.
We All Must Now Stand Strong And Strike No Matter How You Voted Last Time Round, And Even If You Did Not Return Ballot.
At The Moment All The Hard Work That Has Been Done Since Unionisation Back In 01 And Any Well Deserved Pay Increase We Are Due Is In Jeopardy Unless We All Stand Together And Then The Company Will Realise We Are Not A Bunch Of " Only Cabin Crew " And Start Paying The Going Rate...... Dont Know About You Guys But Im Sick To Death Of Hearing About How Well Vs Crew Do In Avaition Awards And How Its Always Jam Tomorrow.
Enough Is Enough...pay Up ...
We All Must Now Stand Strong And Strike No Matter How You Voted Last Time Round, And Even If You Did Not Return Ballot.
At The Moment All The Hard Work That Has Been Done Since Unionisation Back In 01 And Any Well Deserved Pay Increase We Are Due Is In Jeopardy Unless We All Stand Together And Then The Company Will Realise We Are Not A Bunch Of " Only Cabin Crew " And Start Paying The Going Rate...... Dont Know About You Guys But Im Sick To Death Of Hearing About How Well Vs Crew Do In Avaition Awards And How Its Always Jam Tomorrow.
Enough Is Enough...pay Up ...