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ozskipper,
I know what you mean with the Australian mentality but in this case I think there is a difference.
Just about all Australians with the exception of the corporate sector and those in the business owners association are extremely worried about the ramifications of the new IR laws.
By highlighting the efforts the company is going to with these changes and the impact they will have on other jobs if QF is successfull a heck of a lot of people will listen.If enough people start asking questions then politicians start to think and you have started something.
The demise of Ansett was as you pointed out at a very turbulent time in the aviation business for a number of reasons and I think does not apply here.
We can this one of two ways....
We do nothing and ....If we do nothing and just approach the company and say well we could give you this and that ,we will get eaten alive by them.
We try to put the heat on the company and take the fight to them..
By doing nothing we will probably get nothing but if we try a few ideas maybe we will do a little better...what have we got to lose
I know what you mean with the Australian mentality but in this case I think there is a difference.
Just about all Australians with the exception of the corporate sector and those in the business owners association are extremely worried about the ramifications of the new IR laws.
By highlighting the efforts the company is going to with these changes and the impact they will have on other jobs if QF is successfull a heck of a lot of people will listen.If enough people start asking questions then politicians start to think and you have started something.
The demise of Ansett was as you pointed out at a very turbulent time in the aviation business for a number of reasons and I think does not apply here.
We can this one of two ways....
We do nothing and ....If we do nothing and just approach the company and say well we could give you this and that ,we will get eaten alive by them.
We try to put the heat on the company and take the fight to them..
By doing nothing we will probably get nothing but if we try a few ideas maybe we will do a little better...what have we got to lose
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I think the demise of Ansett highlighted that - admittedly there were other news stories at the time that took precedence, but really, with the introduction of Virgin and Jetstar, people just moved carriers and forgot about Ansett.
Ozskipper...Me thinks you've been walking thru Strawberry Fields to come up with a statement like that one.
Sep 11 attack is THE BIGGEST news story of the 21st Century. It happened 3 days prior to the Ansett collapse.
Thats why the media was preoccupied!!!!!
The ACE CARD for the media assault is our very own President of the FAAA. He is articulate, intelligent and when fired up is a sight to behold.
I agree with Lowerlobe.
We have nofing to lose.
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........other news stories that took precedence....what tha!!!
Ozskipper...Me thinks you've been walking thru Strawberry Fields to come up with a statement like that one.
Sep 11 attack is THE BIGGEST news story of the 21st Century. It happened 3 days prior to the Ansett collapse.
Thats why the media was preoccupied!!!!!
Ozskipper...Me thinks you've been walking thru Strawberry Fields to come up with a statement like that one.
Sep 11 attack is THE BIGGEST news story of the 21st Century. It happened 3 days prior to the Ansett collapse.
Thats why the media was preoccupied!!!!!
I'm painfully aware of the events before the Ansett collapse so I don't need any reminding as to what the media was covering thanks.
My point is that I don't think that the general public really cared that Ansett was gone (regardless of other preoccuping media stories), as long as there was an alternative that provided cheap air fares (its a personal view of course).
I'm not opposed to a media campaign - I'm just saying that historically Aussies are a complacent bunch unless it's really going to directly affect them.
Although, you raise a very salient point Lowelobe and I really hope you're right.
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ozskipper and stubby jumbo,
Although it is obvious that the FAAA cannot and will not announce any plans they have before they are enabled especially in a public forum ,I hope that they will at least tell us that they are considering these ideas.
A media campaign concept was raised at the meeting I was at and it looked as though it was a thought they would consider especially when the idea to move 300 more jobs to India was in the press
Although it is obvious that the FAAA cannot and will not announce any plans they have before they are enabled especially in a public forum ,I hope that they will at least tell us that they are considering these ideas.
A media campaign concept was raised at the meeting I was at and it looked as though it was a thought they would consider especially when the idea to move 300 more jobs to India was in the press
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ozskipper....
you are correct in you comments about the Australian Publics view.
Look at the setup of Jet* and how that sent the lines crashing down in order to get a cheap ticket.
Cheap tickets is all they are after, then the Aussies will complain once they get on board.
The only thing that "may" upset the Australian public is the fact that we have not employed full time cabin crew in the long haul division for years, and then the only reason they would get upset is that this action may affect one of the employment prospects of their children.
As long as Australians get a long weekend and a dose of the footy on the weekend and they are able to live in their "dream" MCmansions they could not give a rats what happens to anyone Else's employment conditions.
you are correct in you comments about the Australian Publics view.
Look at the setup of Jet* and how that sent the lines crashing down in order to get a cheap ticket.
Cheap tickets is all they are after, then the Aussies will complain once they get on board.
The only thing that "may" upset the Australian public is the fact that we have not employed full time cabin crew in the long haul division for years, and then the only reason they would get upset is that this action may affect one of the employment prospects of their children.
As long as Australians get a long weekend and a dose of the footy on the weekend and they are able to live in their "dream" MCmansions they could not give a rats what happens to anyone Else's employment conditions.
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When the media get QF's side of the story, expect our usual remuneration figures to be quoted, those same figures that some who post on here are scared to even have posted.
GD's argument will be "their remuneration is generous and all we wanted was an increase in productivity, which they refuse to negotiate, so we have no other option".
While I do believe the public need to know what QF is doing, it is no different to what Joe Blow working in any major corporation is already experiencing except that no compulsory redundancies have occurred to date with us, meaning no-one has actually lost their job as QF CC because of it.
Arguing that someone may not being able to get a job as CC is not really something that will make a good news story, especially when unemployment in general is at an all time low.
GD's argument will be "their remuneration is generous and all we wanted was an increase in productivity, which they refuse to negotiate, so we have no other option".
While I do believe the public need to know what QF is doing, it is no different to what Joe Blow working in any major corporation is already experiencing except that no compulsory redundancies have occurred to date with us, meaning no-one has actually lost their job as QF CC because of it.
Arguing that someone may not being able to get a job as CC is not really something that will make a good news story, especially when unemployment in general is at an all time low.
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If the company wants to post pay figures then we can play that game as well. I am certainly not scared to have pay figures mentioned as long as we have a right of reply to show how absurd their pay and bonuses are.
Darth and the rest of the board have a lot more to be embarrassed about regarding remuneration than we do and we should be more than willing to point that out to every Joe Blow
I never said that we would not negotiate only that we have to put the heat back on the company or we will get nowhere in out negotiations. You can only negotiate from a position of strength and if you have no ammunition in your argument then the company will have you for breakfast.
Certainly there should be give and take in any negotiation but in Darths mind he only wants to take and have us do all the giving. Unfortunately there are some here that are more than willing to just roll over and give in just to keep their jobs and are embarrassed with their pay packets.
If some here think they are over paid then you are more than capable of signing your own AWA and negotiate your own T&C’s
As far as your argument regarding redundancy is concerned you must have a short term memory problem. The last redundancy offered might have been called VR by the company but was structured as CR for various reasons.
Additionally we can point out that although the company has and is hiring overseas crew for L/H they have not done so for quite some time in Australia and therefore Australians are losing jobs because they are going offshore and therefore the end result is the same as CR…so much for the spirit of Australia and that is certainly what Joe Blow is interested in hearing.
Only time will tell if the union is interested in this approach but there is one thing for sure and that the next 12 or so months will not be boring.
Darth and the rest of the board have a lot more to be embarrassed about regarding remuneration than we do and we should be more than willing to point that out to every Joe Blow
I never said that we would not negotiate only that we have to put the heat back on the company or we will get nowhere in out negotiations. You can only negotiate from a position of strength and if you have no ammunition in your argument then the company will have you for breakfast.
Certainly there should be give and take in any negotiation but in Darths mind he only wants to take and have us do all the giving. Unfortunately there are some here that are more than willing to just roll over and give in just to keep their jobs and are embarrassed with their pay packets.
If some here think they are over paid then you are more than capable of signing your own AWA and negotiate your own T&C’s
As far as your argument regarding redundancy is concerned you must have a short term memory problem. The last redundancy offered might have been called VR by the company but was structured as CR for various reasons.
Additionally we can point out that although the company has and is hiring overseas crew for L/H they have not done so for quite some time in Australia and therefore Australians are losing jobs because they are going offshore and therefore the end result is the same as CR…so much for the spirit of Australia and that is certainly what Joe Blow is interested in hearing.
Only time will tell if the union is interested in this approach but there is one thing for sure and that the next 12 or so months will not be boring.
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Who wants to go to Sapporo this winter?
According to the QF schedules, QF will be operating flights to Sapporo from MEL in Jan and Feb. (Not Jet* or AO)
A nice Xmas gift for some crew in S/H or L/H in MEL perhaps?
A nice Xmas gift for some crew in S/H or L/H in MEL perhaps?
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Not to mention.....
7 Day Frankfurts.
Are these guys kidding.!?
The current CC News has a small note about how to prevent fatigue.
It doesnt mention building patterns with HUMAN factors built in.
Are these guys kidding.!?
The current CC News has a small note about how to prevent fatigue.
It doesnt mention building patterns with HUMAN factors built in.
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I think the reason why LH / SH will be operating it is because they will be deploying the A330-300 on it. Not the 767. Otherwise, I'm sure they would have kept AO operating it.
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RaverFlaver,
"I think the reason why LH / SH will be operating it is because they will be deploying the A330-300 on it. Not the 767. OTHERWISE,I'M SURE THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT AO OPERATING IT."
Just a little bit defensive and sensitive are you not?
Nobody suggested a reason for the change ,only that it was there!!! Darths divide and conquer tactic is obviously working well.
On that subject Twiggs and Defcon ,where did you get this info as I could not find the new patterns on the CC site as of yesterday arvo.
Lurker ,yeah your right and they will be also singing "I don't call Australia home" and throwing the meat pie away at the same time...and calling themselves the 'FLYING VINDALOO' instead of the 'FLYING KANGAROO'
"I think the reason why LH / SH will be operating it is because they will be deploying the A330-300 on it. Not the 767. OTHERWISE,I'M SURE THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT AO OPERATING IT."
Just a little bit defensive and sensitive are you not?
Nobody suggested a reason for the change ,only that it was there!!! Darths divide and conquer tactic is obviously working well.
On that subject Twiggs and Defcon ,where did you get this info as I could not find the new patterns on the CC site as of yesterday arvo.
Lurker ,yeah your right and they will be also singing "I don't call Australia home" and throwing the meat pie away at the same time...and calling themselves the 'FLYING VINDALOO' instead of the 'FLYING KANGAROO'
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DefCon,
Thanks for the info on the standing bids but I don't think a QF travel center would know what crew are operating the flights or that we do 7 day Fra's
Thanks for the info on the standing bids but I don't think a QF travel center would know what crew are operating the flights or that we do 7 day Fra's
Sapporo is being opperated by a 763 but not by AO. (even though the aircaft is routed MEL/CNS/CTS) The crew in Cairns thought it funny that they no longer operated the Singapore flights when it all changed to Qantas - now that route has gone to JQ. Is Qantas just "babysitting" the CTS route until JQI can take it over???
Last edited by flitegirl; 17th Oct 2006 at 00:22. Reason: grammar
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the FRA07 in our standing bids could also be for another base as the FRA 08 are still in there.
SO..................Mr Raver! how does it feel to see flying given over to another division!
Now you may have some sort of understanding what we feel about our work being dished out to the "others" that are willing to undercut us.
Can you finally realise what it feel like.
Can you now see why people used to and still do get upset on this forum about it.
SO..................Mr Raver! how does it feel to see flying given over to another division!
Now you may have some sort of understanding what we feel about our work being dished out to the "others" that are willing to undercut us.
Can you finally realise what it feel like.
Can you now see why people used to and still do get upset on this forum about it.
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That info can also be found on the QF website in the schedules section.
Don't get ahead of yourself guys and girls before any patterns are out.
Like I said, the only way they can give Aust base crew 7 day FRA trips is if we pax all the way to or from FRA, which is not a trip not many people would have a problem with.
They probably inserted that standing bid to use at a time when they need such a pattern.
The reason they would do so is not even worth speculating about now.
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Twiggs,
The point I was trying to make is that the travel center might know whether the aircraft is operated by AO or QF but they would not know whether it is L/H or S/H Qf crew.
I don't know about you but I don't really go to the QF site for entertainment and check out schedules ,there are a lot of other web sites that are more interesting.
Quote "if we pax all the way to or from FRA, which is not a trip not many people would have a problem with"
As far as paxing to or from FRA or anywhere for that matter ,it depends on where you are sitting when paxing that is my concern.I would rather work than sit down at 60K.
Flitegirl,
I don't think we are babysitting anything until J* take over as it would be cheaper for AO to operate this sector or maybe it is because it originates in MEL and Carmen is just doing it this way.I learnt a long time ago it is a waste of time trying to see any logic in QF ops and most of the time if you find a logical and pragmatic solution then you take the complete opposite tact and that is what the company will do.
Mostie,I'm not sure but I don't think AO gets allowances in hand either but all I do know is that the beer and skiing is excellent up there.I wonder if that restaurant is still open that had all the red wine you could drink for 1000 yen MMMMmmmmmm
The point I was trying to make is that the travel center might know whether the aircraft is operated by AO or QF but they would not know whether it is L/H or S/H Qf crew.
I don't know about you but I don't really go to the QF site for entertainment and check out schedules ,there are a lot of other web sites that are more interesting.
Quote "if we pax all the way to or from FRA, which is not a trip not many people would have a problem with"
As far as paxing to or from FRA or anywhere for that matter ,it depends on where you are sitting when paxing that is my concern.I would rather work than sit down at 60K.
Flitegirl,
I don't think we are babysitting anything until J* take over as it would be cheaper for AO to operate this sector or maybe it is because it originates in MEL and Carmen is just doing it this way.I learnt a long time ago it is a waste of time trying to see any logic in QF ops and most of the time if you find a logical and pragmatic solution then you take the complete opposite tact and that is what the company will do.
Mostie,I'm not sure but I don't think AO gets allowances in hand either but all I do know is that the beer and skiing is excellent up there.I wonder if that restaurant is still open that had all the red wine you could drink for 1000 yen MMMMmmmmmm
Last edited by RedTBar; 17th Oct 2006 at 01:37.