Cabin crew "attitude"
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 304
Likes: 20
From: UK
I'm SLF, an EC Gold with BA and I do about 15 L/Hauls a year with BA, never mind the other airlines. I'm 52, and have been flying since I was about 2 - I still have my BOAC junior jet club logbook - signed by Captain O.P. Jones (never mind - in the days when Pilots were like God, he was "the man").
From Britannias through Comets to 777's BA FA's have looked after me really well. As a child, when I tripped on the top step of the VC 10 stairs as an excited kid coming home for the holidays in BAH - a BA FA caught me headfirst at the bottom and literally saved me from breaking my neck. As a teenager when I checked in (can't remember where) and they saw me chatting admiringly to a beautiful teenager next in line, I somehow ended up in the adjacent seat. As a professional when I was down after a bad business trip in BKK an FA cheered me up. When I had the pre-wedding jitters coming back from BWI one of you calmed me down and talked to me in the small hours.
Whether I have been in 1A or 59K I have - with a few exceptions - recieved incredible service. Yes, there have been a few miserable FA's on a few miserable flights but overall BA have the best, and that is is why I continually defy my company travel policy to fly with you - even if you are not always the cheapest.
I will make two observations. Firstly, the Exectutive Club reward and recognition system from SLF to FA's is not good. I know the thinking behind it (your job is reward enough) and you can e-mail, but I think we should have a more formalised method to say 'thank you' if it was really special. Secondly, I've noticed that its very rare to get a miserable or rude FA in isolation. Generally everyone is efficient, or maybe jokey, but sometimes you get entire crews with a bad attitude - its as if it comes down from the top.
Does that mirror how it is?
Anyhow this is my overdue thank-you note to those BA crews that have made my life bearable in my travels.
Rob - BA 73878354
From Britannias through Comets to 777's BA FA's have looked after me really well. As a child, when I tripped on the top step of the VC 10 stairs as an excited kid coming home for the holidays in BAH - a BA FA caught me headfirst at the bottom and literally saved me from breaking my neck. As a teenager when I checked in (can't remember where) and they saw me chatting admiringly to a beautiful teenager next in line, I somehow ended up in the adjacent seat. As a professional when I was down after a bad business trip in BKK an FA cheered me up. When I had the pre-wedding jitters coming back from BWI one of you calmed me down and talked to me in the small hours.
Whether I have been in 1A or 59K I have - with a few exceptions - recieved incredible service. Yes, there have been a few miserable FA's on a few miserable flights but overall BA have the best, and that is is why I continually defy my company travel policy to fly with you - even if you are not always the cheapest.
I will make two observations. Firstly, the Exectutive Club reward and recognition system from SLF to FA's is not good. I know the thinking behind it (your job is reward enough) and you can e-mail, but I think we should have a more formalised method to say 'thank you' if it was really special. Secondly, I've noticed that its very rare to get a miserable or rude FA in isolation. Generally everyone is efficient, or maybe jokey, but sometimes you get entire crews with a bad attitude - its as if it comes down from the top.
Does that mirror how it is?
Anyhow this is my overdue thank-you note to those BA crews that have made my life bearable in my travels.
Rob - BA 73878354
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 421
Likes: 38
From: London, UK
I think part of the problem for BA crew is that it is a lot harder to be proud these days. Pride leads to enthusiasm, and enthusiasm to quality service. It also gives the insouciance to deal with the occasional whingeing passenger. A lot of it is obviously behind the scenes (eroding terms and conditions), but a lot of it is also visible to the passengers:
Examples:
The all day deli: the staff are embarassed handing it out.
Club Europe Food: its not very special, is it? Pasta on a three hour flight? The cost cutting is very obvious
Limited menu choices: Last four club world flights out of LHR I've been told my first choice is unavailable. Cairo flight has the same menu day in, day out: and as the nice lady said, 'its not good, is it?'
Pointless cut backs: two single malts in a club world drinks trolley
An old one: No complaints form in High Life (I guess too many people used them)
Lack of gates at LHR: 'just like Ryanair, but they don't make you wait for a bus'
Doubts about maintenance: some of the planes are filthy. Too much oil and filth on moving surfaces of wings. Is it me or are there more funny noises than there used to be? If it looks like that on the outside, what does it look like underneath?
Tatty planes: club world product is no longer best in class, and the cabins are very tired. Many short haul planes are just plain (excuse the pun) shabby.
I suspect a lot of BA cabin crew are getting tired of apologising.
In economy, BA does not really differentiate itself short-haul in any meaningful way over Easyjet, and the crew know it and don't like it. Club in Europe is not as good as it ought to be for the price, and the crew don't like that either. Club World is still good, but not as good as it was, and still on a downslope: the crew see it and don't walk tall anymore.
BA makes a lot of its revenue from business travellers who pay a lot of money to fly with them. If I pay £650 pounds for an economy ticket to Rome, it is no good telling me the service is terrible because the person next to me only paid £79: I expect to get what I paid for. And if I don't get it, I'm surly, and the cabin crew, who don't thinks its terribly clever either, get surly, and everyone has slipped one step down the ladder.
Same long haul: if I pay £1,800 to fly Club World to Cairo, and the food is terrible and I don't get my menu choice, and the flaps make a funny grinding noise and are covered in oil, and theres a rubber seal flapping in the breeze, I'm unlikely to smile brightly when the nice lady by the door wishes me a pleasant afternoon. So next time, she doesn't bother, and we all lose.
I like BA, and want them to do well. Whoever started this thread is right, the service ethos that made BA in the late 80s and early 90s is visibly fraying, and the airline will pay a bottom line price for it.
The management have to address the terms and conditions issues (and the efficiency issues on the ground) at BA, and that is obviously going to have an effect on the staff. But to simultaneously downgrade service levels to try and compete with people who have a lower cost base than you is commercial suicide.
Examples:
The all day deli: the staff are embarassed handing it out.
Club Europe Food: its not very special, is it? Pasta on a three hour flight? The cost cutting is very obvious
Limited menu choices: Last four club world flights out of LHR I've been told my first choice is unavailable. Cairo flight has the same menu day in, day out: and as the nice lady said, 'its not good, is it?'
Pointless cut backs: two single malts in a club world drinks trolley
An old one: No complaints form in High Life (I guess too many people used them)
Lack of gates at LHR: 'just like Ryanair, but they don't make you wait for a bus'
Doubts about maintenance: some of the planes are filthy. Too much oil and filth on moving surfaces of wings. Is it me or are there more funny noises than there used to be? If it looks like that on the outside, what does it look like underneath?
Tatty planes: club world product is no longer best in class, and the cabins are very tired. Many short haul planes are just plain (excuse the pun) shabby.
I suspect a lot of BA cabin crew are getting tired of apologising.
In economy, BA does not really differentiate itself short-haul in any meaningful way over Easyjet, and the crew know it and don't like it. Club in Europe is not as good as it ought to be for the price, and the crew don't like that either. Club World is still good, but not as good as it was, and still on a downslope: the crew see it and don't walk tall anymore.
BA makes a lot of its revenue from business travellers who pay a lot of money to fly with them. If I pay £650 pounds for an economy ticket to Rome, it is no good telling me the service is terrible because the person next to me only paid £79: I expect to get what I paid for. And if I don't get it, I'm surly, and the cabin crew, who don't thinks its terribly clever either, get surly, and everyone has slipped one step down the ladder.
Same long haul: if I pay £1,800 to fly Club World to Cairo, and the food is terrible and I don't get my menu choice, and the flaps make a funny grinding noise and are covered in oil, and theres a rubber seal flapping in the breeze, I'm unlikely to smile brightly when the nice lady by the door wishes me a pleasant afternoon. So next time, she doesn't bother, and we all lose.
I like BA, and want them to do well. Whoever started this thread is right, the service ethos that made BA in the late 80s and early 90s is visibly fraying, and the airline will pay a bottom line price for it.
The management have to address the terms and conditions issues (and the efficiency issues on the ground) at BA, and that is obviously going to have an effect on the staff. But to simultaneously downgrade service levels to try and compete with people who have a lower cost base than you is commercial suicide.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
From: london
"Secondly, I've noticed that its very rare to get a miserable or rude FA in isolation. Generally everyone is efficient, or maybe jokey, but sometimes you get entire crews with a bad attitude - its as if it comes down from the top.
Does that mirror how it is?"
Spot on Pinkman. The large majority of CSD's are great to work with and really know how to motivate their crew. There are a small minority that are the total opposite though, every one hates working with them and they put a general 'downer' on the whole trip. You will notice this most if you are unlucky enough to be sat in the cabin nearest the CSD's office.
SLF 3, you are also right in many of your comments. BA does need to pay more attention to the general presentation and cleanliness of their aircraft. As with most things cleaning is 'out sourced' and rarely seems to be audited by BA. As with most other departments within BA, our engineering department (which mend most of the small cabin issues such as lose seals or broken armrests/lights etc) have faced numerous culls and there just don't seem to be the numbers anymore to tend to all these presentation issues.
I've also noticed that whenever it is 'announced' something new will replace something old (for example the IFE), in the interim until the new equipment arrives, the exisiting equipment is rarely fixed when it breaks down (IFE screens etc).
As for steps off the aircraft instead of jetties. This is nothing new and something BA has little control over. Stands are allocated by Heathrow Airport Limited (HAL) and around 15-20% of our flights on a daily basis are allocated 'off pier' stands. Even when we move to T5 this will not be remidied until 'T5C' will not open until 2011. T5A (main Bldg) and T5B (initial satellite) will be used from 2008. Something that DOES embarass us with off pier arrivals though, is the often long wait for busses @ LHR.
In terms of a long haul Club passenger not receiving their first meal choice, yes, I do find it embarassing having to let them down. I don't think any airline caters 100% for every meal choice (say we have 4 options and 50 passengers in club...would equal 200 meals, 150 of which would be wasted) but I certainly agree that passengers not getting their first request happens all too often and some extra buffers certainly wouldn't go astray. The absolute MOST embarassing scenario (which SHOULDN't happen but occassionally does) is when neither the passengers first, or second preference is available.
As for shourt-haul, I think what is offered is still fairly good. I think it is just as good, or in most cases better, than the other european 'flag' carriers. I use my staff travel a fair bit to go and visit friends around europe and often fly some of the other european carriers (and are often lucky enough to be upgraded). I must say, I think BA are streets ahead of the last two competitors I used (KLM and Iberia). On the other hand I flew Olympic to Athens (which I was dreading) and they turned out to be amazing!
In short, the best thing you can to as SLF (especially if a frequent flyer) is to ask the CSD for a 'GPM' (those surveys that most people hate completing). Or alternatively, a 'comments card'. Sometimes when passengers to complain about the state of the aircraft or catering, i actively encourage them to complete one. BA DOES log the stats of what comes back on those forms, both positive and negative. So, next time you are on a filfthy flight, put pen to GPM and tell them just how dirty or tatty you think those aircraft are!
PS. Club World will be receiving a complete new cabin as well as new seats and galleys this summer. IFE will be new (AVOD) thru-out the aircraft. Maybe they can re-do the loos and carpets down the back as well! (fingers crossed)
Does that mirror how it is?"
Spot on Pinkman. The large majority of CSD's are great to work with and really know how to motivate their crew. There are a small minority that are the total opposite though, every one hates working with them and they put a general 'downer' on the whole trip. You will notice this most if you are unlucky enough to be sat in the cabin nearest the CSD's office.
SLF 3, you are also right in many of your comments. BA does need to pay more attention to the general presentation and cleanliness of their aircraft. As with most things cleaning is 'out sourced' and rarely seems to be audited by BA. As with most other departments within BA, our engineering department (which mend most of the small cabin issues such as lose seals or broken armrests/lights etc) have faced numerous culls and there just don't seem to be the numbers anymore to tend to all these presentation issues.
I've also noticed that whenever it is 'announced' something new will replace something old (for example the IFE), in the interim until the new equipment arrives, the exisiting equipment is rarely fixed when it breaks down (IFE screens etc).
As for steps off the aircraft instead of jetties. This is nothing new and something BA has little control over. Stands are allocated by Heathrow Airport Limited (HAL) and around 15-20% of our flights on a daily basis are allocated 'off pier' stands. Even when we move to T5 this will not be remidied until 'T5C' will not open until 2011. T5A (main Bldg) and T5B (initial satellite) will be used from 2008. Something that DOES embarass us with off pier arrivals though, is the often long wait for busses @ LHR.
In terms of a long haul Club passenger not receiving their first meal choice, yes, I do find it embarassing having to let them down. I don't think any airline caters 100% for every meal choice (say we have 4 options and 50 passengers in club...would equal 200 meals, 150 of which would be wasted) but I certainly agree that passengers not getting their first request happens all too often and some extra buffers certainly wouldn't go astray. The absolute MOST embarassing scenario (which SHOULDN't happen but occassionally does) is when neither the passengers first, or second preference is available.
As for shourt-haul, I think what is offered is still fairly good. I think it is just as good, or in most cases better, than the other european 'flag' carriers. I use my staff travel a fair bit to go and visit friends around europe and often fly some of the other european carriers (and are often lucky enough to be upgraded). I must say, I think BA are streets ahead of the last two competitors I used (KLM and Iberia). On the other hand I flew Olympic to Athens (which I was dreading) and they turned out to be amazing!
In short, the best thing you can to as SLF (especially if a frequent flyer) is to ask the CSD for a 'GPM' (those surveys that most people hate completing). Or alternatively, a 'comments card'. Sometimes when passengers to complain about the state of the aircraft or catering, i actively encourage them to complete one. BA DOES log the stats of what comes back on those forms, both positive and negative. So, next time you are on a filfthy flight, put pen to GPM and tell them just how dirty or tatty you think those aircraft are!
PS. Club World will be receiving a complete new cabin as well as new seats and galleys this summer. IFE will be new (AVOD) thru-out the aircraft. Maybe they can re-do the loos and carpets down the back as well! (fingers crossed)
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: cheshire
In response to pinkman, I am of similar age and have similar travelling experience, but I am not London based, therefore BA is just another airline and I do not have rose coloured spectacles, therefore I can be more objective.
I too could state that I have travelled in ambassadors, DC3s, Tridents, VC10s etc, but that was a different age. I have travelled on numerous airlines also, from the tiny princeair in the caribbean, Branniff, Laker, TWA and hundreds of other mostly forgotton airlines.
As i mentioned previously, BA has provided some of the best and worst aircrew, but it is difficult to judge some airlines. For example, the staff on Oman Air were O.K., but then again how do you deal with almost the whole flight grabbing their overhead baggage the second the aircraft has touched down on the tarmac, I was amazed and shocked at the danger, but its issues like these that BA staff fortunately do not have to deal with.
In the late 70s and on a small seaplane, there were no smoking signs everywhere, yet the pilot saunders on with a cigarette loosely hanging from his lips. To be fair, I believe that it was to create an impact with the PAX, but otherwise the service was excellent.
Its difficult to compare as in many cases it is like mixing apples & pears and everyone can have an off day, but the BA of today is a different animal than its predecesors of 30-40 years ago. I only fly them at most once or twice a year now as there is no need to interline through LGW or LHR anymore, so my recent experiences are limited, but I believe my views are still justified.
However, all cabin & flight crew do an excellent job and I don't envy those who work very hard on charter flights to say Tenerife in the middle of the night where they get no break at all.
I too could state that I have travelled in ambassadors, DC3s, Tridents, VC10s etc, but that was a different age. I have travelled on numerous airlines also, from the tiny princeair in the caribbean, Branniff, Laker, TWA and hundreds of other mostly forgotton airlines.
As i mentioned previously, BA has provided some of the best and worst aircrew, but it is difficult to judge some airlines. For example, the staff on Oman Air were O.K., but then again how do you deal with almost the whole flight grabbing their overhead baggage the second the aircraft has touched down on the tarmac, I was amazed and shocked at the danger, but its issues like these that BA staff fortunately do not have to deal with.
In the late 70s and on a small seaplane, there were no smoking signs everywhere, yet the pilot saunders on with a cigarette loosely hanging from his lips. To be fair, I believe that it was to create an impact with the PAX, but otherwise the service was excellent.
Its difficult to compare as in many cases it is like mixing apples & pears and everyone can have an off day, but the BA of today is a different animal than its predecesors of 30-40 years ago. I only fly them at most once or twice a year now as there is no need to interline through LGW or LHR anymore, so my recent experiences are limited, but I believe my views are still justified.
However, all cabin & flight crew do an excellent job and I don't envy those who work very hard on charter flights to say Tenerife in the middle of the night where they get no break at all.
Aluminum Tubing Inspector
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,000
Likes: 0
From: Costa Geriatrica
Having just returned from a week overseas and now in USA, I travelled 4 different airlines and saw many examples of crew attitude!
Turkish Airlines: Extremely friendly
Singapore: IST DXB Superb
Singapore: DXB SIN Indifferent
Emirates: SIN DXB So rude it was unbeliveable except for one crew member who epitomised the EK of old...and I told her
Emirates: DXB LGW Extremely new team with some old heads thrown in so over zealousness coupled with a personal touch...good in some ways but inconsistent
Virgin: LHR BOS Good but one crew member saw my call bell light on and asked me if I had pressed it..I hadn't, my fellow pax did...so she just gave a smirk and said "Well, perhaps you pressed it by accicent, hmmph!" and walked off! Then maintained the attitude the entire flight!
So, as mentioned above in another post, it is not just BA although I flew with them to IST and back recently and the outbound was awful, but the inbound cheerful!
My tuppence worth.
Cheers
HR
Turkish Airlines: Extremely friendly
Singapore: IST DXB Superb
Singapore: DXB SIN Indifferent
Emirates: SIN DXB So rude it was unbeliveable except for one crew member who epitomised the EK of old...and I told her
Emirates: DXB LGW Extremely new team with some old heads thrown in so over zealousness coupled with a personal touch...good in some ways but inconsistent
Virgin: LHR BOS Good but one crew member saw my call bell light on and asked me if I had pressed it..I hadn't, my fellow pax did...so she just gave a smirk and said "Well, perhaps you pressed it by accicent, hmmph!" and walked off! Then maintained the attitude the entire flight!
So, as mentioned above in another post, it is not just BA although I flew with them to IST and back recently and the outbound was awful, but the inbound cheerful!
My tuppence worth.
Cheers
HR
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Darkest Surrey
Originally Posted by flyblue
I have flown 4 times with BA in the last months (and many times in the past years) and I was always amazed by the quality of their CC. I won't get into the details, but I always got off the plane with an very good impression, both safety and commercial wise.
I think you have been quite unlucky miche2, and met the inevitable bad apples
I think you have been quite unlucky miche2, and met the inevitable bad apples
As far as the awful (esp. in the days of the -200, with Abu Dhabi refuelling stops and 18-hour flights) LHR-SIN legs, BA crew were always v. professional, but I recall that the reception was not always the most cordial, and sometimes fairly surly. Especially compared to Qantas. Nothing breathtaking of course, just the usual "sit down, shut up and don't bother me!" brusqueness you'd expect in cattle class.
But it seems to me like BA's service has substantially improved since the 80s/90s rather than the other way around. I certainly wouldn't put them below VS, let alone the very occasional "domestic" LCC (ATA, Southwest...US Airways(!)) I've flown. Food and service are now much better than I remember and as good as anyone else's. I wonder if that's the sector, though? Maybe they are still grim-faced (probably dog tired) on the far east flights?
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Strasbourg
Agree with Norihaga, anyone who remembers BA from the 1980's in a positive fashion is looking through rose tinted spectacles.
I'm a very frequent business traveller and rude cabin staff are so rare I think I can remember every single occasion when its happened. That said I'm always polite and don't make unreasonable demands. BA CC are fine, generally very professional and efficient and I value this higher than some of the beautific but empty smiles you get on some airlines. I have come across the odd prima donna on BA (and AF as well) and if they are rude then I'll speak to the number one and if that doesn't work then to the Captain when the aeroplane lands.
Being CC is harder than most people imagine and it shouldn't be forgotten that their customer service role is actually their secondary function. Also, I've forgotten the number of occasions I've seen them deal with complete and utter idiots in a far more doplomatic way than I ever could
I'm a very frequent business traveller and rude cabin staff are so rare I think I can remember every single occasion when its happened. That said I'm always polite and don't make unreasonable demands. BA CC are fine, generally very professional and efficient and I value this higher than some of the beautific but empty smiles you get on some airlines. I have come across the odd prima donna on BA (and AF as well) and if they are rude then I'll speak to the number one and if that doesn't work then to the Captain when the aeroplane lands.
Being CC is harder than most people imagine and it shouldn't be forgotten that their customer service role is actually their secondary function. Also, I've forgotten the number of occasions I've seen them deal with complete and utter idiots in a far more doplomatic way than I ever could
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: SURREY
[quote=SuperBoy]I hate to say this but the 'irony' seems to be that you seem slightly bitter.
Your generalising. There are thousands of cabin crew who work for BA and as many who have applied to BA and failed will tell you it's not every tom, dick and harry who get in.
I for one am offended by your comment. (And no I'm not being sensitive and no I don't have a face that says:'how dare you ask for a drink')
Yes, one or two people might've had a bad day. We all have atleast one of them in a lifetime. As a 'gorgeous' ex-hostie you should know better.
This is all kinda worrying as i have an assessment day on the 4th of July!
By the way, i don't suppose you have any advice on the day itself do you. Just a bit nervous...
Your generalising. There are thousands of cabin crew who work for BA and as many who have applied to BA and failed will tell you it's not every tom, dick and harry who get in.
I for one am offended by your comment. (And no I'm not being sensitive and no I don't have a face that says:'how dare you ask for a drink')
Yes, one or two people might've had a bad day. We all have atleast one of them in a lifetime. As a 'gorgeous' ex-hostie you should know better.
This is all kinda worrying as i have an assessment day on the 4th of July!
By the way, i don't suppose you have any advice on the day itself do you. Just a bit nervous...
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 421
Likes: 38
From: London, UK
Originally Posted by amtba
BA has won numerous awards including best Business class 2006, check it out before your wild and untrue remarks www.worldairlineawards.com
