Do BA Cabin Crew pull their weight?
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But 175 hrs duty is a longway short of 50-60hrs a week too! 40 in fact. Shorthaul LHR is massively innefficient for CC (its not cc's fault before i get jumped on) LGW get much more work done in far fewer duty hours for comparable sectors.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: leafy suburbs
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If all of BA's cabin crew can take a step back for a moment and assess themselves - realistically - then alot of the comments on this thread are true. I do quite a bit of duty travel on BA and I know when I have a good crew, not so good crew and crew that should have stayed at home. While your main task is to ensure the safety of passengers, the inflight service is the thing that passengers remember!
In this current catering crisis - on short haul - am I offered 1 or 2 cups of tea during the flight? Only once has this happened to me, and the second cup was welcomed
When full catering is back on short haul, I think some of the cabin crew will be out of recencey
In this current catering crisis - on short haul - am I offered 1 or 2 cups of tea during the flight? Only once has this happened to me, and the second cup was welcomed
When full catering is back on short haul, I think some of the cabin crew will be out of recencey
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear Anti-ice, I'm afraid you are the one talking out of the proverbial posterior once again!
200 minutes in Compass (mandatory briefing). Well that'll be 10 briefings all month then. Then you really try to convince us that in a whole month you've spent just 40 minutes in Compass and 75 minutes in CAT? Well there's two things wrong there - the first being that if you only had 40 minutes in CCO you should have been in CAT anyway, and the second is that to have just one visit to CCO and CAT apiece in a month means you've only done two 3 sector days in the whole month. I know your inefficient but even that is going too far! Evidently you only lke doing 2 sector there and backs, those CDG returns with 7 crew on a 321 are particularly gruelling.
You also seem to have forgotten the minimum 1hr per day you'll waste sitting on a bus on a typical cabin crew roster, so lets knock five hours per week off your actual 'work'. Why don't you tell us how many hours you actually spend flying these months and how many sectors that was then we can work out how much time you actually spend working and how many hours you spend sitting in CCO/CAT/on a bus reading 'Hello'.
And if you really want to talk about reading newspapers, remember we have a camera and can see you reading the papers at 1L, which is something you seem to do an awful lot of given that the only work on board for you is doling out tea, coffee or tap water. Funny how you seem to think that you know what goes on in the flight deck even though you are only there for about 10 minutes each flight as a SCCM and not at all as a junior. I guess BASSA must have told you.
well once again cm , you are talking out of your a**e, as in that month , i have spent 200 mins in compass (mandatory briefing) 40 mins in compass (on 1 turnaround) ,and 75 mins in CAT , which equals 5hrs15 mins versus the 175 hours duty .
The briefings cannot be treated as 'nothing'
The briefings cannot be treated as 'nothing'
You also seem to have forgotten the minimum 1hr per day you'll waste sitting on a bus on a typical cabin crew roster, so lets knock five hours per week off your actual 'work'. Why don't you tell us how many hours you actually spend flying these months and how many sectors that was then we can work out how much time you actually spend working and how many hours you spend sitting in CCO/CAT/on a bus reading 'Hello'.
And if you really want to talk about reading newspapers, remember we have a camera and can see you reading the papers at 1L, which is something you seem to do an awful lot of given that the only work on board for you is doling out tea, coffee or tap water. Funny how you seem to think that you know what goes on in the flight deck even though you are only there for about 10 minutes each flight as a SCCM and not at all as a junior. I guess BASSA must have told you.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: london
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carnage, you are right in saying that LHR EF crew are not working to their most efficient and I don't think anyone realistically is going to dispute that.
Rightly or wrongly, but understandable if you are eurofleet cabin crew, the system is set up that way to protect the cabin crews terms and conditions.
Now in any industry, be it an airline, bank, insurance company or refuse collection, you are not going to put your conditions in the line of fire. OK, maybe if the company was going down the road of Aer Lingus you would think maybe it's time to change. But I guess when you are at the top of the profitability league in your industry you can afford to hang out a little longer.
Nobody disputes that when T5 opens that things won't change. It's reaching a reasonable compromise that is important.
I really think your comments about reading newspapers are unfair. Also 7 cabin crew on a A321 for a CDG.
AF are required to have 8 CC on their A321 when on a sector under 1hr20min.
I realise that it seems ridiculous to have 7 crew on an aircraft while there is no catering onboard. But add 49 Club Passengers into the equation with a full meal service, as well as 'down the back' full, also with a sandwich/drink service, then I would love to see anyone sitting in the galley reading the paper.
I think it is a little bit like saying to you guys up front: 'don't read your paper, just look at your instruments'. Even though there is nothing really to look at. You get my point? On a flight with 7 CC and no catering (or just tea and coffee) it would have pointless to have 7 cabin crew wondering up and down the cabin or fiddling with in the galley trying to look busy. Especially on the longer routes.
There is also another issue here. The catering dispute is lowering moral. Crew are literally fed up with having to apologise for there being no catering.
We feel ridiculous saying to a Club Passenger in the process of ripping our head off "yes, I know this flight is two hours long, and you paid a full fare Club ticket, and the 'dispute' happened three months ago, and we don't have any food or even bottled water to give you. And yes, we are running an hour late".
This isn't on the odd occasion, it is every single flight (especially the bands 2/3) to every second passenger on that flight.
Reckon we will ever see a hotline ticket that our ground and ramp collegues (some of who walked out on th ejob a couple months ago) received during the last debacle?
Rightly or wrongly, but understandable if you are eurofleet cabin crew, the system is set up that way to protect the cabin crews terms and conditions.
Now in any industry, be it an airline, bank, insurance company or refuse collection, you are not going to put your conditions in the line of fire. OK, maybe if the company was going down the road of Aer Lingus you would think maybe it's time to change. But I guess when you are at the top of the profitability league in your industry you can afford to hang out a little longer.
Nobody disputes that when T5 opens that things won't change. It's reaching a reasonable compromise that is important.
I really think your comments about reading newspapers are unfair. Also 7 cabin crew on a A321 for a CDG.
AF are required to have 8 CC on their A321 when on a sector under 1hr20min.
I realise that it seems ridiculous to have 7 crew on an aircraft while there is no catering onboard. But add 49 Club Passengers into the equation with a full meal service, as well as 'down the back' full, also with a sandwich/drink service, then I would love to see anyone sitting in the galley reading the paper.
I think it is a little bit like saying to you guys up front: 'don't read your paper, just look at your instruments'. Even though there is nothing really to look at. You get my point? On a flight with 7 CC and no catering (or just tea and coffee) it would have pointless to have 7 cabin crew wondering up and down the cabin or fiddling with in the galley trying to look busy. Especially on the longer routes.
There is also another issue here. The catering dispute is lowering moral. Crew are literally fed up with having to apologise for there being no catering.
We feel ridiculous saying to a Club Passenger in the process of ripping our head off "yes, I know this flight is two hours long, and you paid a full fare Club ticket, and the 'dispute' happened three months ago, and we don't have any food or even bottled water to give you. And yes, we are running an hour late".
This isn't on the odd occasion, it is every single flight (especially the bands 2/3) to every second passenger on that flight.
Reckon we will ever see a hotline ticket that our ground and ramp collegues (some of who walked out on th ejob a couple months ago) received during the last debacle?
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heres a question for you then. You turn up at an A321 with with only 6 crew and the matrix says you need 7, even though there's still no catering. Are you gonna go with six, or are you going to delat the floight and wait for the seventh? My moneys on the latter.
We're still working to ridiculous crewing levels, and have been for three months, even though there is no justification for them. I bet theres still 6 crew on an A319 to AMS. Thats one passenger seat blocked out and about 20 passengers per crew member to serve drinks too!
IIRC keeperboy you are a fairly new joiner to BA which is probably why you have a realistic idea about what hard work and efficiency in this industry really is. What gets my goat is people like Anti-ice trotting out the BASSA line of 'working' 60 hours per week when we all know that a huge part of that is sitting around on the ground drinking coffee on a union sponsored turnaround.
We're still working to ridiculous crewing levels, and have been for three months, even though there is no justification for them. I bet theres still 6 crew on an A319 to AMS. Thats one passenger seat blocked out and about 20 passengers per crew member to serve drinks too!
IIRC keeperboy you are a fairly new joiner to BA which is probably why you have a realistic idea about what hard work and efficiency in this industry really is. What gets my goat is people like Anti-ice trotting out the BASSA line of 'working' 60 hours per week when we all know that a huge part of that is sitting around on the ground drinking coffee on a union sponsored turnaround.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
zzzzzzzzzzzz 
you can't help yourself can you........
We work damn hard when there is catering onboard - perhaps you want even more crew removed and have to go-around everyday?
As for the fact that they have retained the crew matrix during the gate gourmet situation - its down to crewing and perhaps salary protection - if you had minimum crew every day ,some crew would lose 30-40% of their allowances ,as 50% of eurofleet are on £10k basic a year , that doesn't make things easy.
it is in no way our fault that there is no catering - that was bought upon us by a team of professionals...
and if it makes you feel any better,we only get paid £4.37 if we work between 1300 and 2000.
And ive worked plenty of flights with lower than normal levels recently, OF COURSE we wouldnt delay the flight for extra crew - thats plain rubbish.
You really dont know what you are talking about carnage,
if we DO have a turnaround break it is normally 40 mins - YOU are sat down all day , and we frequently do 11hr+ with no break.
And i'm not 'trotting' out anything... i can add up the hours on my roster ,and now ive fully accounted for my hours , how about you do the same for us to demonstrate your credibility ?
You probably dont like it because you are now working the way we always have....
You have a dreadful approach towards your fellow crew (which is unusual and worrying) , so i suspect that at some point you have been turned down by some object of your affection within the company....
Now go try and make yourself happy, your bank balance will swell considerably in 10 days time, whereas the crew you so love to mock's won't , so instead of printing rubbish on here , go and treat yourself
you can't help yourself can you........
We work damn hard when there is catering onboard - perhaps you want even more crew removed and have to go-around everyday?
As for the fact that they have retained the crew matrix during the gate gourmet situation - its down to crewing and perhaps salary protection - if you had minimum crew every day ,some crew would lose 30-40% of their allowances ,as 50% of eurofleet are on £10k basic a year , that doesn't make things easy.
it is in no way our fault that there is no catering - that was bought upon us by a team of professionals...
and if it makes you feel any better,we only get paid £4.37 if we work between 1300 and 2000.
And ive worked plenty of flights with lower than normal levels recently, OF COURSE we wouldnt delay the flight for extra crew - thats plain rubbish.
You really dont know what you are talking about carnage,
if we DO have a turnaround break it is normally 40 mins - YOU are sat down all day , and we frequently do 11hr+ with no break.And i'm not 'trotting' out anything... i can add up the hours on my roster ,and now ive fully accounted for my hours , how about you do the same for us to demonstrate your credibility ?
You probably dont like it because you are now working the way we always have....
You have a dreadful approach towards your fellow crew (which is unusual and worrying) , so i suspect that at some point you have been turned down by some object of your affection within the company....
Now go try and make yourself happy, your bank balance will swell considerably in 10 days time, whereas the crew you so love to mock's won't , so instead of printing rubbish on here , go and treat yourself
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets analyse that shall we:
No it doesn't, but I presume you overlook the basic pay you'll be earning that day? Or is that just a retainer for your services?
Well its nice to see somebody making a sacrifice now that you've so little to do on board. Of course once the grubs back it'll be back to square one again, delaying flights for an extra crew member cos you've got one too many Club pax.
Many years LHR shorthaul says I do.
40 minutes! Are you trying to tell me you get a CAT everyday? There are plenty of 2-3 hr turnarounds in CCO every day. Perhaps you only do there and backs?
Kind of hard to fly the aircraft standing up.
Lets see, 1hr25 report, 45 mins clear, 45 min turnaround that leaves about 8 hours for flying. So unless you do an awful lot of DME, IST, LED, ATH, and LCA there and backs then you don't frequently do 11hr+ without a break. Given the frequency that we fly to those destinations compared to AMS, CDG, BRU, DUS, etc etc, all of which involve either a nightstop or rotation through LHR and by definition a break, I'd say your statement was wholly innaccurate.
So tell us, how many hours on duty this month and how many hours actually flying. Let us know how many sectors that involves and we can calculate how much working as opposed to wasting your doing!
Oh thats the best one yet! When I can have 2 hours off between flights, sit about in Compass all day wasting time, have a 2 sector 3 day HEL trip, get 18 hours off downroute as a right because I spent more than 12 hours at work, get £35 for reducing my turnaround time, get to walk ff an aircraft because its a minute beyond my industrial agreement, then I'll be ''working' like you always have.
if it makes you feel any better,we only get paid £4.37 if we work between 1300 and 2000.
ive worked plenty of flights with lower than normal levels recently, OF COURSE we wouldnt delay the flight for extra crew
You really dont know what you are talking about carnage
if we DO have a turnaround break it is normally 40 mins -
YOU are sat down all day
and we frequently do 11hr+ with no break.
i can add up the hours on my roster ,and now ive fully accounted for my hours
You probably dont like it because you are now working the way we always have
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your ignorance is almost breathtaking
As for the 'info' you choose to print on hear about your colleagues it is an absolute load of rubbish.
You have more hot air than a whole room full of Richard Bransons...
Perhaps you should've been a politician.
You should sit down with some of your colleagues you hold in such deep contempt, and find out what their lives are really like.
As i stated before , i have spent 1hr15mins in a whole month on these so called turnarounds that you state waste so much company time, and that is for 22 days work. Most people have that in one day , and you spend all day sat down.
If you are so keen to paint such an inaccurate picture, then i suggest you should go to a 'chip on your shoulder' removal specialist , and then try and find some happiness....
As for the 'info' you choose to print on hear about your colleagues it is an absolute load of rubbish.
You have more hot air than a whole room full of Richard Bransons...
Perhaps you should've been a politician.
You should sit down with some of your colleagues you hold in such deep contempt, and find out what their lives are really like.
As i stated before , i have spent 1hr15mins in a whole month on these so called turnarounds that you state waste so much company time, and that is for 22 days work. Most people have that in one day , and you spend all day sat down.
If you are so keen to paint such an inaccurate picture, then i suggest you should go to a 'chip on your shoulder' removal specialist , and then try and find some happiness....
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps you're a bit slow in the uptake here Anti-ice, but if you want to convince people you need to post facts and not personal insults. If my ignorance is so breathtaking then perhaps you could explain which of my statements is factually incorrect and why?
If you have spent 1hr 15 minutes on CAT/CCO turnarounds in a whole month then you have either done one double or one rotation through LHR. 1hr 15 minutes is one LHR turnaround, so the remaining 20 days of your working month have been single sector days or two sector there and backs. Not exactly a typical EF roster, is it?
By the way, if you're working 170 hours per month as you claim then you're averaging under 8 hours per day, not quit the dramatic 11+ hours you claim.
Oh and I really don't know why you're so obsessed with the idea that pilots sit down all day (which is incorrect). It would seem that you think it's impossible to be working unless your standing up. Very peculiar.
Now have another go and see if you can be more convincing this time.
If you have spent 1hr 15 minutes on CAT/CCO turnarounds in a whole month then you have either done one double or one rotation through LHR. 1hr 15 minutes is one LHR turnaround, so the remaining 20 days of your working month have been single sector days or two sector there and backs. Not exactly a typical EF roster, is it?
By the way, if you're working 170 hours per month as you claim then you're averaging under 8 hours per day, not quit the dramatic 11+ hours you claim.
Oh and I really don't know why you're so obsessed with the idea that pilots sit down all day (which is incorrect). It would seem that you think it's impossible to be working unless your standing up. Very peculiar.
Now have another go and see if you can be more convincing this time.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LHR 27R
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How would it be possible to only have 115mins turn around time in a month.23 x 5 = 115 mins so that would be 23 flights over 22 days and that would mean each turn around would be only 5 mins.Ive never seen a turnaround done in 5 mins. The problem here is Carnage see your hours as Flying Hours and you see your hours from Sign on to sign off.Personally I see hours worked for myself as the moment signed on to the moment signed off.
However what I find totally shocking is the apparent attitudes expressed by both CC & FD too each other when you all allsupposed to be working as one big team.I find it unbelieveable that neither party has any appreciation for what the other roles do.I guess theres no chance of what happens at Virgin with CC sleeping with FD all the time if you dont even like each other professionally at BA.
Also why arent BA sorted out with the catering.2 months later and there is still no catering on board.Why are people still flying and paying full price if this is the case?Why is Gate Gourmet still your caterer?(I think we know why that is)Any other other company and GG would have been sacked by now.
Unbelieveable it really is.
However what I find totally shocking is the apparent attitudes expressed by both CC & FD too each other when you all allsupposed to be working as one big team.I find it unbelieveable that neither party has any appreciation for what the other roles do.I guess theres no chance of what happens at Virgin with CC sleeping with FD all the time if you dont even like each other professionally at BA.
Also why arent BA sorted out with the catering.2 months later and there is still no catering on board.Why are people still flying and paying full price if this is the case?Why is Gate Gourmet still your caterer?(I think we know why that is)Any other other company and GG would have been sacked by now.
Unbelieveable it really is.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The breaks Carnage is trying to refer to , are the ODD occasion during the month when the crew go back to Compass or a central area lounge we have for a 40min - 80 min on average break.
These occur in between links, eg ARN-LHR, then LHR-FRA-LHR.
He is making out they are commonplace and waste company time, while they have long been in our contract,and are one of the rare decent things we have left.
Anyone deserves a break,get away from things, refresh,grab something to eat/drink and maybe even sit down momentarily - and these are normally in the middle of long/very long days.
The point i was making is that we dont spend 50% of our lives doing this, and in september my combined 'base turnarounds' came to 115mins, not 80 hours if it was REALLY half my duty.
He obviously doesnt like the fact that cabin crew even try to have a break , or even sit down for a bit and relax , even though he spends 90% of his job sat down.
The whole thread is about BA crew working hard ,and believe me , we darn well do!!!
I have nothing against any flightcrew, the vast majority are fine , but i take great offence when some flight crew member comes along and rubbishes the cabin crew community.
Whatever happened to good CRM??!?
We all know his type, but he has know right to print such utter rubbish
These occur in between links, eg ARN-LHR, then LHR-FRA-LHR.
He is making out they are commonplace and waste company time, while they have long been in our contract,and are one of the rare decent things we have left.
Anyone deserves a break,get away from things, refresh,grab something to eat/drink and maybe even sit down momentarily - and these are normally in the middle of long/very long days.
The point i was making is that we dont spend 50% of our lives doing this, and in september my combined 'base turnarounds' came to 115mins, not 80 hours if it was REALLY half my duty.
He obviously doesnt like the fact that cabin crew even try to have a break , or even sit down for a bit and relax , even though he spends 90% of his job sat down.
The whole thread is about BA crew working hard ,and believe me , we darn well do!!!
I have nothing against any flightcrew, the vast majority are fine , but i take great offence when some flight crew member comes along and rubbishes the cabin crew community.
Whatever happened to good CRM??!?
We all know his type, but he has know right to print such utter rubbish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C'mon guys, us cabin crew didn't make the rules. It's not our fault the company don't work us efficently! It's human nature to do as little as possible, and if the company has laid out these rules and agreements for us why wouldn't and shouldn't we fight to keep them. Why should we work one crew member down when it says we shouldn't have to? We'd be stupid if we did. In the end everybody wants an easy life. That's not to say we don't do our job well when we're actually doing it, but why do you think we choose to work for BA over BMI or a low cost carrier or charter...I can tell you why I do...Because it's a cushy little number that pays me well so I don't want for anything, we have excellent agreements, and it's status working for the countries flag carrier.
P.S. To all you crew out there who make out we have it hard, I think you need to take a good look at what we've actually got!!! It isn't that bad at all! And good on you all who fight to keep it!
P.S. To all you crew out there who make out we have it hard, I think you need to take a good look at what we've actually got!!! It isn't that bad at all! And good on you all who fight to keep it!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LHR 27R
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of the countries flag carrier's.BMI and Virgin now carry that Flag internationally as well.Virgin is the one that carries the flag(visually) as it is on the wingtips of 747-400's.Maybe BA should adopt what SAA do and have the Flag under the A/C Reg.
Sarah-Your comments on why you work for BA arent going to help the doubters that BA CC actually pull there weight but Im keeping out of that argument as its not for me to comment on.
Sarah-Your comments on why you work for BA arent going to help the doubters that BA CC actually pull there weight but Im keeping out of that argument as its not for me to comment on.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wasn't saying we don't pull our weight, I was saying we do what our agreement says to do, therefore how can we be accused of not pulling our weight? We can only be expected to do what we're told to do, and if that's easier than some other airlines, then so be it, but it doesn't mean we don't pull our weight. It's all relative really isn't it?
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rescue 137 - the 115 minutes turnaround are not turnaround times downroute, they are turnaround times at LHR where our cabin crew seem to be unique in their inability to stay on board an aircraft. I get the impression from your posts that you do not actually work in the airline industry as you seem somewhat pre-occupied with the idea of everybody shagging each other down route. I can assure you most flight crew have a pretty good idea what the cabin crew job involves through either having worked as crew or being the partner of crew or simply sitting down the back as a pax on a regular basis. Sadly that knowledge is not reciprocated. On the subject of GG, having sacked them as you suggest, who would you suggest could take over the contract at short notice?
Anti-ice - the breaks I refer to, as you well know, occur on any double day or any trip when you pass through LHR.
These are by no means odd occasions but will occur every time the crew do a 3 or 4 sector day. The minimum short turnaround time is 1hr50mins up to a max of 2hr 30, so you'll really have to be on minimum turnaround times to get less than 40 minutes rest, not withstanding the requirement to have a minimum of 30 minutes 'time at table' to eat. And don't forget the £35 you get as compensation for accepting an STR. Longer than that and you go back to Compass, and people go back to Compass more often than they go to CAT.
They are commonplace, and just because they have been in your contract since the 70s doesn't mean they don't waste company time.
Your combined base turnarounds for September could not total 115 minutes unless you only did one base turnaround all month. As I've already mentioned, minimum STR is 1hr50. It would appear we are calculating these in different ways. How do you calculate 115mins?
I don't have a problem with you having a break, but a 3 hour break? As for the 90% sat down comment, see my response to R137 about the lack of reciprocal knowledge.
Except believing that as we spend '90% of our time sat down' we're not doing any work.
Do you think you could call the flight deck if you saw flames coming from an engine after take off? If the answer is yes then CRM is working. It's not about being nice to each other. I suggest you read TightSlots excellent post about CRM here.
Flying Sarah
You may find BASSA had rather a lot to do with it! That said, the rest of your comments are spot on! You'd be amazed how easy it is to spot the crew who have come from EF LGW, bmi, Virgin, Easyjet or the charter world compared to the dyed in the wool EF LHR crew. Their attitudes are poles apart. Its refreshing to see somebody who can compare the job to real world occupations for once.
Anti-ice - the breaks I refer to, as you well know, occur on any double day or any trip when you pass through LHR.
These are by no means odd occasions but will occur every time the crew do a 3 or 4 sector day. The minimum short turnaround time is 1hr50mins up to a max of 2hr 30, so you'll really have to be on minimum turnaround times to get less than 40 minutes rest, not withstanding the requirement to have a minimum of 30 minutes 'time at table' to eat. And don't forget the £35 you get as compensation for accepting an STR. Longer than that and you go back to Compass, and people go back to Compass more often than they go to CAT.
He is making out they are commonplace and waste company time, while they have long been in our contract,and are one of the rare decent things we have left.
Your combined base turnarounds for September could not total 115 minutes unless you only did one base turnaround all month. As I've already mentioned, minimum STR is 1hr50. It would appear we are calculating these in different ways. How do you calculate 115mins?
He obviously doesnt like the fact that cabin crew even try to have a break , or even sit down for a bit and relax , even though he spends 90% of his job sat down
have nothing against any flightcrew
Whatever happened to good CRM??!?
Flying Sarah
C'mon guys, us cabin crew didn't make the rules. It's not our fault the company don't work us efficently
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look, i've only just scanned your post Carnage, and i'm not going to get in a long drawn out battle over this .
I just take great offence to your original posting stating that BA cabin crew spend 50% of their duty on breaks which is absolute rubbish.
The facts i stated earlier are all true, i only had 3 CAT/compass turnarounds in September, all of which were absolute minimums ( 2X45mins).(1X25mins- we agreed to reduce due to severe disruption).
We get very little/no time to ourselves, given that WE now do all the return catering preps/changeovers downroute on 90% of our routes (when catering fully returns).
A 3 hr turnaround is highly unusual ,and that is from landing to takeoff, so may equate to an 80 min break after everything else is done.This is very rare though , and ive probably had 2 max like that this whole year.
Why you want people to think that we are on continuous breaks beggars belief, but 50% is complete rubbish.
Maybe it is because we do have the odd break/feel refreshed on a 10/12 hour day, is the reason why we score highly in our customers estimations and they return and spend alot of money with us ?
If the crew are happy, it follows that the customers are too.
Its probably also why our competitors lose hundreds of crew to us each year as well.
The CAT lounge in particular is always full of flight crew so why the big issue?
Why you want to begrudge anyone on a 11-12 hr day the opportunity of a sit down for 30-40mins is just unwarranted malevolence..........
Or perhaps you want to see the saving put in your pension pot
I just take great offence to your original posting stating that BA cabin crew spend 50% of their duty on breaks which is absolute rubbish.
The facts i stated earlier are all true, i only had 3 CAT/compass turnarounds in September, all of which were absolute minimums ( 2X45mins).(1X25mins- we agreed to reduce due to severe disruption).
We get very little/no time to ourselves, given that WE now do all the return catering preps/changeovers downroute on 90% of our routes (when catering fully returns).
A 3 hr turnaround is highly unusual ,and that is from landing to takeoff, so may equate to an 80 min break after everything else is done.This is very rare though , and ive probably had 2 max like that this whole year.
Why you want people to think that we are on continuous breaks beggars belief, but 50% is complete rubbish.
Maybe it is because we do have the odd break/feel refreshed on a 10/12 hour day, is the reason why we score highly in our customers estimations and they return and spend alot of money with us ?
If the crew are happy, it follows that the customers are too.
Its probably also why our competitors lose hundreds of crew to us each year as well.
The CAT lounge in particular is always full of flight crew so why the big issue?
Why you want to begrudge anyone on a 11-12 hr day the opportunity of a sit down for 30-40mins is just unwarranted malevolence..........
Or perhaps you want to see the saving put in your pension pot
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2x45 mins and 1x25 mins (well done for reducing) is the time you get to sit in the CAT but doesn't include wasted time sitting on busses going to and fro. However thats still not a representative Eurofleet roster as it means you were on there and backs for the remaining 19 days you worked. Thats pretty unusual. If you have been on there and backs then you are probably working more efficiently than most of the EF community who are doing a mix of doubles and tours, most of which either start or end with a single sector day. There are very few 3-2-3 tours, and I don't think I've ever seen a 3-4-3 amongst CC.
On the matter of return catering I understood that crew were still working to BASSAs diktat that they must not touch the catering downroute and local caterers must do the rearranging. As such you are not doing any more downroute through return catering than you would do ex-LHR. Correct me if I am wrong. And you are still sticking to BASSA agreements even though there has been no catering of significance on board since mid-August.
Hundreds of cabin crew join BA from other airlines because we pay them more and they work far less. That seems to be the view amongst every new entrant I've spoken to, with the single exception of an ex-easyjet steward who said he could earn as much but only by doing lots of DF on a six sector day through NCE. I'll agree that customer satisfaction levels are high, but if you know that you'll also know that the customers say consistency is a serious problem. You'll also know where the CSDs file GPMs which are critical of the crew. You'll also know that Pursers won't hand out GPMs because BASSA say it's not in their job description.
The CAT lounge has flight crew in it because the company aren't capable of rostering fixed links on every flight and they have to go somewhere in between. Whilst there they invariably do some productive work getting the latest flight plans and weathers and determining fuel loads etc. Occasionally they are rostered a meal break, but only if the duty is over a meal window and the company have chosen not to put a crew meal on the flight for them. Compare that with the CC requirement for long turnarounds on most trips and no work conducted during the CAT other than reading Hello! magazine and delaying transport because you've only had 43 minutes and not 45 (you can have the CSDs name if you want it).
By the way, I think we've already established you don't do many 11-12 hour days unless you've been sitting around for a few hours already. That was a few posts back. However perhaps you'd like to post an example of an 11+ hour day that does not involve a DME, IST, ATH, LCA, KBP, TIP or LED there and back?
On the matter of return catering I understood that crew were still working to BASSAs diktat that they must not touch the catering downroute and local caterers must do the rearranging. As such you are not doing any more downroute through return catering than you would do ex-LHR. Correct me if I am wrong. And you are still sticking to BASSA agreements even though there has been no catering of significance on board since mid-August.
Hundreds of cabin crew join BA from other airlines because we pay them more and they work far less. That seems to be the view amongst every new entrant I've spoken to, with the single exception of an ex-easyjet steward who said he could earn as much but only by doing lots of DF on a six sector day through NCE. I'll agree that customer satisfaction levels are high, but if you know that you'll also know that the customers say consistency is a serious problem. You'll also know where the CSDs file GPMs which are critical of the crew. You'll also know that Pursers won't hand out GPMs because BASSA say it's not in their job description.
The CAT lounge has flight crew in it because the company aren't capable of rostering fixed links on every flight and they have to go somewhere in between. Whilst there they invariably do some productive work getting the latest flight plans and weathers and determining fuel loads etc. Occasionally they are rostered a meal break, but only if the duty is over a meal window and the company have chosen not to put a crew meal on the flight for them. Compare that with the CC requirement for long turnarounds on most trips and no work conducted during the CAT other than reading Hello! magazine and delaying transport because you've only had 43 minutes and not 45 (you can have the CSDs name if you want it).
By the way, I think we've already established you don't do many 11-12 hour days unless you've been sitting around for a few hours already. That was a few posts back. However perhaps you'd like to post an example of an 11+ hour day that does not involve a DME, IST, ATH, LCA, KBP, TIP or LED there and back?
Last edited by Carnage Matey!; 24th Oct 2005 at 01:05.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: here there and everywhere
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a perfect world I would like to change this thread's title to Do LHR-based BA cabin crew pull their weight. It's all about you guys!
While I believe that once on board we do all work really hard, our agreement at LGW is completely different. With the introduction of fixed links we can have only a 45 min. turnaround at LGW in between a 12hr double.
I don't remember the last time I walked to Jubilee house in between my sectors. It must have been months ago.
If we get delayed we don't miss our next leg because we have to have a minimum turnaround at base. Non-planned fixed links (i.e. because of a delay) become a rush between the two planes, most times running across the terminal or to the other side of the bridge (BA have sacked 80% of our bus drivers).
So I would be grateful if you guys could keep us out of all of that. We suffer enough as it is - we will also lose the last crew member and go on CAA minimum crew very soon, while promoting and offering ppl to upgrade to Club at the same time!!!!!!!)
BA isn't just LHR, but reading here once again, unfortunately, it feels like it is.
Rescue....you are great 
While I believe that once on board we do all work really hard, our agreement at LGW is completely different. With the introduction of fixed links we can have only a 45 min. turnaround at LGW in between a 12hr double.
I don't remember the last time I walked to Jubilee house in between my sectors. It must have been months ago.
If we get delayed we don't miss our next leg because we have to have a minimum turnaround at base. Non-planned fixed links (i.e. because of a delay) become a rush between the two planes, most times running across the terminal or to the other side of the bridge (BA have sacked 80% of our bus drivers).
So I would be grateful if you guys could keep us out of all of that. We suffer enough as it is - we will also lose the last crew member and go on CAA minimum crew very soon, while promoting and offering ppl to upgrade to Club at the same time!!!!!!!)
BA isn't just LHR, but reading here once again, unfortunately, it feels like it is.
However what I find totally shocking is the apparent attitudes expressed by both CC & FD too each other when you all allsupposed to be working as one big team.I find it unbelieveable that neither party has any appreciation for what the other roles do.I guess theres no chance of what happens at Virgin with CC sleeping with FD all the time if you dont even like each other professionally at BA.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LHR 27R
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carnage-I worked at LHR for 4 1/2 years and left to get a better paid job as the minimum pay that alot of airport workers are payed isnt worth getting out of bed or viable to live in London.I have spent 6 1/2 out of the last 8 years in LHR though and thinks that gives me the knowledge to express my opinions.My post about the hours was to just simply try to explain it as I couldnt understand and that is why I havent slagged anyone off about that.
The comment about Cabin Crew sleeping around has been brought up here on pprune.Im not preoccuppied with it but it gets posted quite alot about Virgin CC.A friend works for Virgin in Op's and he says the same.Im not going to discuss that on here as there is another thread on that and it has all been discussed on there.
How the hell do you guys & Gals spend the time down route when you cant even stand each other.Do FD & CC not associate at all in the hotel and keep to your seperate camps?
GG-They have you over a barrell then if you will never move.If its 2 months then they could have been talking to other parties by now.They couldnt have moved but if I got on a BA plane 2 months after the strike and there was still no catering then I wouldnt be happy.Are customers still being sold tickets at full price with no catering?
I spent 3 1/2 years on 747's for 15 hours a day and ended up doing around 10,000 hours and also been on every Concorde when it was flying so although I may not be "In the Airline Industry" at the moment then my knowledge and experience on certain things gives me the choice to post here.
Carnage & Anti-ice - You just reinforce the attitude that alot of people have about certain parts of pprune,that it is a little bit too intense and people take themselves too serious.
FBW - Cheers,Right back at yeah
p.s. My username states my real interest in Aviation and if anyone can get what its related too exactly then you get a prize
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there\'s a lot of silly girls out there who will go with anything with stripes.........................pilots have more opportunity and more silly/desperate little girls throwing themselves at them!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wish I worked for the same airline as you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carnage-Found this reply of your's in the thread I was talking about.It doesnt seem to be me thats preoccupied.
The comment about Cabin Crew sleeping around has been brought up here on pprune.Im not preoccuppied with it but it gets posted quite alot about Virgin CC.A friend works for Virgin in Op's and he says the same.Im not going to discuss that on here as there is another thread on that and it has all been discussed on there.
How the hell do you guys & Gals spend the time down route when you cant even stand each other.Do FD & CC not associate at all in the hotel and keep to your seperate camps?
GG-They have you over a barrell then if you will never move.If its 2 months then they could have been talking to other parties by now.They couldnt have moved but if I got on a BA plane 2 months after the strike and there was still no catering then I wouldnt be happy.Are customers still being sold tickets at full price with no catering?
I spent 3 1/2 years on 747's for 15 hours a day and ended up doing around 10,000 hours and also been on every Concorde when it was flying so although I may not be "In the Airline Industry" at the moment then my knowledge and experience on certain things gives me the choice to post here.
Carnage & Anti-ice - You just reinforce the attitude that alot of people have about certain parts of pprune,that it is a little bit too intense and people take themselves too serious.
FBW - Cheers,Right back at yeah
p.s. My username states my real interest in Aviation and if anyone can get what its related too exactly then you get a prize
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there\'s a lot of silly girls out there who will go with anything with stripes.........................pilots have more opportunity and more silly/desperate little girls throwing themselves at them!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wish I worked for the same airline as you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carnage-Found this reply of your's in the thread I was talking about.It doesnt seem to be me thats preoccupied.
Last edited by Rescue 137; 24th Oct 2005 at 09:53.