Safety, incidents, etc

[HZ123]

Passenger Doors

I have been working at LGW for the last 10 weeks and i have to say that I am concerned with the number of aircraft / airlines with rear doors open and crew visible working in the galley and no steps attached just the tape across. For any of you CC working with the doors open if you trip and fall you may die. If you survive you will lose a percentage of any claim you make because you were not paying due attention to the existant risks.

[flybywire]

HZ123 it's a very sore point the one you are raising. Unfortunately different airlines have different procedures in place, which end up confusing ground staff. My airline has a "no steps/jetty no doors open" policy and I completely agree with it. We had a couple of accidents before the sop were changed and it was not fun for the crew involved.

However we also have the silly rule that if steps are in place at the back, whatever the situation or phase of turnaround, the rear door must be open anyway. Not clever when it's 2*C, with strong gales and persistent rain entering the cabin making us all freeze and making the galley surfaces really slippery!! Big hazard in more than one way, in my opinion.

[6chimes]

A once heard a tale where a member of crew went to close the rear door of a 757 in the rain. You guessed it, they slipped on the metal plate and went straight out and landed on the tarmac, result; Broken pelvis, long stay in hospital and the end of a flying career.

6

[Airbourne-Adamski]

I know a crew member from Air France was killed when she fell out the door, The steps were taken away without her knowing, she turned round and well I say no more.

What I will say is at easyjet when doors open and steps in place, they can not be removed until the crew member as passed a permit to remove steps form for that particular door to the ramp staff who are at the top of the steps. Then the door has to be closed straight away, then steps removed.

[flyblue]

at easyjet when doors open and steps in place, they can not be removed until the crew member as passed a permit to remove steps form for that particular door to the ramp staff who are at the top of the steps

The procedure was the same at AF when the accident happened. But as it appeared, it was not enough to keep human error away. To increase safety, a new type of stairs were introduced. Now there are 2 gates blocking access to the stairs, both on top and bottom, to prevent use in unsafe condition (ie if the gate is open, the operator will know that he doesn't have the permission to move them yet).

[Airbourne-Adamski]

To increase safety, a new type of stairs were introduced. Now there are 2 gates blocking access to the stairs, both on top and bottom, to prevent use in unsafe condition (ie if the gate is open, the operator will know that he doesn't have the permission to move them yet).

Interesting proceedure, I belive I have seen those steps in CDG but they work with our proceedure on removing steps.

Is this proceedure just AF?

[oldflyboy]

Oops Thud!

I remember a female Purser based at BHX who incorrectly tried to close the front door of a 737 in DUS, leaned out too far and disappeared from view! Luckily the engineer on his headset was underneath the aircraft and was able to partially break her fall. Both survived, she was off work for several months but returned to flying and is now happily retired.

Its not just about having the correct SOP's it's also about making sure you follow them. Remember, 1 hand for the aircraft, 1 hand for yourself guys!

Safe Flying

[shaheen]

a good crm

this capt should have chkd with ground maint
and you should have filed a report

[Airbourne-Adamski]

shaheen

this capt should have chkd with ground maint
and you should have filed a report

Sorry what was this coment regarding

[aviator84]

Incidents involving escape shoots

Okay, im just wondering what any of your views are on this potentially fatal accident, i wont mention the airline inolved as i would not like like this to come back on me in any way,last year we where asked to do a Manual pax carry off on a ***JET 757,we came in on the R2 door next to the wing as Caterers had been on the front R1 door,we had the ambi lined up and the hostie opened the door and told us she wouldnt have us taking the pax off at this door, why i dont know but she seemed in a bad mood at this time,we questioned this as the passenger who was fully disabled from the legs below was close to this door and to cause the passenger no fuss and any uncomfort this was obviously the best choice rather than trying to to take him down the narrow aisle, after a bit of arguing back and forth she was adamant she wanted us to move to the front, further delaying the aircrafts boarding and our own departure as we had other passengers to attend to, we lined the ambi up at the front and raised the cab! The next thing the door gets flung open carelessly and the escape shoot drops out onto our cab hissing away, teh enginerr commented that at least a foot or more of extension and the shoot would have deployed, firing me and my collegues out the back from which we where around 20 odd ft in the air at this point, as you can clearly see the shoot handle is in the "Armed Postion" showing a lack of attention and care on the lady's part from which this could have turned out to be a fatal accident. Im just wondering if anything else like this has happend to anyone out there?, a few people have been killed over the years here in incidents like this, it just shows how easily things can go wrong.
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[737319320321]

Door Straps.

Airlines have different proceedures regarding this. But most British Airlines have the policy that if there are no jetty or steps in place then the door must not be opened. Also usually 1 member of crew must be manning each set of doors. so there would be no excuse for any passengers falling out of this if the door was opened, for what ever reason.

[h73kr]

Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves. A few months ago was working a very 'tech.' 76. One of the other many engineers was working right next to the mid door just fwd of the wing, pulling up the galley floor covering. He was standing, pulling it towards the open (and of course high) open door above the concrete pan! I couldn't beleive it, if the flooring had suddenly 'given', as they often do where water has migrated under the covering, he would have fallen backwards out of the open door to certain injury / death. I spoke to him about it, he wasn't bothered! I single handedly in Middle Eastern heat dragged a stand across the pan and positioned it by the door. He didn't even thank me, but I felt better for doing it.

[Airbourne-Adamski]

Mr Brave Engineer, Whatever

At easy doors without steps must be closed. Only if stuck on stand with big slot and pax aboard sweating to death do we crack open a door with no steps, but there must be a crew member by that door.

[dscartwright]

>At easy doors without steps must be closed.

That was my experience on Saturday morning when I got back as SLF from IBZ to STN. Two sets of steps approached; the front set got attached, and although the cabin crew were watching intently through the window in the back door, the rear steps seemed to stop five feet away and came no nearer. So the door stayed closed and we all got off through the front door.

DC

[HZ123]

Open / Close Doors with no steps / jetty /

There is an airline at SEN that commit this fault nearly every day on the RJ100/146. CC habitually open / close the door without any jetty / steps in place and also reach out of the forward door to close it after the airstairs are activated. Perhaps if someone reads this and knows the CC they make them aware of these concerns. Someone is going to get hurt otherwise, of that I am certain.

[rowone]

and long may it continue!

[FlyingBoi]

A/C doors

At my airline, our SOP is that you open door as soon as seatbelt sign is off. I understand that this can be dangerous but stems from the fact that we operate 2 different types of jet, one of which is the 146/rj .
This is one of the resons for the policy as at most airports their steps cannot be attatched untill the door has been opened fully, hence the reason for this policy. I imagine as they leave the fleet the policy may change.

I would like to point out that included in the sop is that a crew member has to be stationed at said open door at all times.

[FCAcrewboy]

At my Airline there is a cross-checking procedure in place to check the doors are armed/disarmed...this is then past on to the Supervisor. This is almost faultless in preventing incidents occuring.

When it comes to opening doors, All crew including number 2's have to ask the permission of the Supervisor. The SOP is to bring the yellow strap across to allow crew & passengers to now that the door is open. Off course doors are not ment to be opened without steps/airbrigde but this is not always possible with caterers & ambi-lifts coming & going...

From what i know there has been little incidents at my airline, the odd slide blowing here & there...

[joeflyguy]

I thought SOP as suggested by the likes of FAA

I thought SOP as suggested by the likes of FAA and individual country's CAA was that doors must not be disarmed after landing and taxi until another viable means of exit from the A/C is present. ie. there MUST be an airbridge or steps AT the exit before it may be disarmed

I know that may be the policy at our lil ole airline but invariably doors are disarmed immediately engines shutdown and seatbelt sign off. No airbridge within cooey of door.

[sebby]

As far as im aware the intended gate must be insight and free of aircraft and that is when the doors can be disarmed. This is at the discretion of the Pilots. Seatbelt sign can not be switched off until doors have been confirmed Disarmed and crosschecked.

This is the procedure for my company.