BA and attendance.
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BA and attendance.
Well I guess this is one mainly for the BA bois and gals but everyones welcome to put their two pence worth in!
BASSA (BA mainline cabin crew union) announced today that talks between them and BA regarding the new sickness policy have broken down, and if BA tries to impose the new policy they will ballot for industrial action immediately.
For those on you non-BA ers, the new sickness policy is a company wide system of attendance monitoring. Basically there are different trigger points based on days or occassions sick and you enter into different levels of the process. The top one being dismissal. Every work group within BA has signed up for this except for the Cabin Crew as we believe it is unfair on us because we cant come to work with say blocked ears or cold sores where as someone working behind a desk could.
I was just wondering though, how many people would vote for industrial action on this subject? Im a bit split on the issue myself....
BASSA (BA mainline cabin crew union) announced today that talks between them and BA regarding the new sickness policy have broken down, and if BA tries to impose the new policy they will ballot for industrial action immediately.
For those on you non-BA ers, the new sickness policy is a company wide system of attendance monitoring. Basically there are different trigger points based on days or occassions sick and you enter into different levels of the process. The top one being dismissal. Every work group within BA has signed up for this except for the Cabin Crew as we believe it is unfair on us because we cant come to work with say blocked ears or cold sores where as someone working behind a desk could.
I was just wondering though, how many people would vote for industrial action on this subject? Im a bit split on the issue myself....
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why should someone who is not a flight attendant come to work with a cold or blocked ears?
Its another case of crew throwing there toys out the pram if they dont get there own way because industrial action will not do some of there 'still on probabtion' colleagues much good at all.
Its another case of crew throwing there toys out the pram if they dont get there own way because industrial action will not do some of there 'still on probabtion' colleagues much good at all.
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Redfred, you are clearly a very ignorant person so I am going to go through things simply for you.
1. You can sit behind a desk with a box of tissues and work at a computer without harming yourself or infecting other people who will in turn have a take time off work.
2. You can sit behind a desk and work at a computer without breaking food hygiene regulations.
3. You can sit behind a desk with blocked ears without bursting your ear drums.
There is no reason whatsoever for taking time off work with a mild cold if you work in an office. If you are crew you are forbidden from working and can cause yourself serious damage if you have a cold. Should the rules be the same? No.
1. You can sit behind a desk with a box of tissues and work at a computer without harming yourself or infecting other people who will in turn have a take time off work.
2. You can sit behind a desk and work at a computer without breaking food hygiene regulations.
3. You can sit behind a desk with blocked ears without bursting your ear drums.
There is no reason whatsoever for taking time off work with a mild cold if you work in an office. If you are crew you are forbidden from working and can cause yourself serious damage if you have a cold. Should the rules be the same? No.
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redfred,
we know from day one in basic training that you must not fly with a cold or blocked ears. You simply would risk bursting your ear drums.
Now, if someone not particularly bright decides to go on holiday (by plane) in that condition, it is his choice, but no one shoud be forced to risk his/her fitness to fly (and in the case of countries with a licence, his/her licence).
we know from day one in basic training that you must not fly with a cold or blocked ears. You simply would risk bursting your ear drums.
Now, if someone not particularly bright decides to go on holiday (by plane) in that condition, it is his choice, but no one shoud be forced to risk his/her fitness to fly (and in the case of countries with a licence, his/her licence).
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Because Redfred,
If we go sick with just one of these incidents it is considered part of our "allowance" of sick days and as a result, our entire sick record gets pulled and reviewed by the company with our permanent record under threat of becoming foul, they will refuse to review each incident as it happens!
But in a nutshell BA are trying to impress a "one size fits all" catergory onto the EG300. What is an unacceptable reason for groundstaff could be a very valid reason for cabin crew but BA refuse to see it this way!!! And anyways, If I came to work with a serious case of the s&%ts would you want me putting my hands all over your breadrolls, displaying the food on the plate in First or handing your children their Kiddies meal trays??? NO, I dont think you would want that!!!
A number of years ago I woke up fine and healthy, went to work and as I checked in I found I had slight sniffles. I really did not think of it at the time and still reported fit for the flight....3 hours later I was being stretchered off the aircraft with a burst eardrum!!!
If we go sick with just one of these incidents it is considered part of our "allowance" of sick days and as a result, our entire sick record gets pulled and reviewed by the company with our permanent record under threat of becoming foul, they will refuse to review each incident as it happens!
But in a nutshell BA are trying to impress a "one size fits all" catergory onto the EG300. What is an unacceptable reason for groundstaff could be a very valid reason for cabin crew but BA refuse to see it this way!!! And anyways, If I came to work with a serious case of the s&%ts would you want me putting my hands all over your breadrolls, displaying the food on the plate in First or handing your children their Kiddies meal trays??? NO, I dont think you would want that!!!
A number of years ago I woke up fine and healthy, went to work and as I checked in I found I had slight sniffles. I really did not think of it at the time and still reported fit for the flight....3 hours later I was being stretchered off the aircraft with a burst eardrum!!!
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I am quite interested to know what redfred is actually doing in this thread. He is clearly not cabin crew or a pilot.
This one-size fits all policy is just ridiculous. It's like telling a builder he has to work with a broken leg, because a guy in the office doing the accounts is.
Maybe people should check out this link http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/ent/203128.html for some information on what happens if you fly with blocked ears.
By the way, most cabin crew I know will do everything possible to avoid getting blocked ears/colds. For a start it's very uncomfortable, but it also can lead to long periods off work when we make no money.
This one-size fits all policy is just ridiculous. It's like telling a builder he has to work with a broken leg, because a guy in the office doing the accounts is.
Maybe people should check out this link http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/ent/203128.html for some information on what happens if you fly with blocked ears.
By the way, most cabin crew I know will do everything possible to avoid getting blocked ears/colds. For a start it's very uncomfortable, but it also can lead to long periods off work when we make no money.
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whoever started this thread asked for people opinions and thats mine, crew want their own rules, its fairly similar to Chelsea and the rest of us......
it doesnt matter what i do for a living but i am an employee of BA
it doesnt matter what i do for a living but i am an employee of BA
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Redfred, the question was asked so people could make intelligent constructive comments.
You have simply taken a pop at cabin crew with regards an issue that you clearly know nothing about.
The vast majority of people at BA are fully in support of the cabin crew union's opposition to the EG300 policy. Who wants their companys front line staff upsetting their customers by sneezing over their meal, and putting their own health at risk at the same time.
You have simply taken a pop at cabin crew with regards an issue that you clearly know nothing about.
The vast majority of people at BA are fully in support of the cabin crew union's opposition to the EG300 policy. Who wants their companys front line staff upsetting their customers by sneezing over their meal, and putting their own health at risk at the same time.
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redfred you are spot on. BASSA agreed to go onto EG300 providing that there were some exceptions laid out for the likes of blocked ears etc.
BA refused this, insisting on a blanket approach BA wide.
BA refused this, insisting on a blanket approach BA wide.
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As an ex BA gorgeous trolley dolly I can say cabin crew do use the "cold" or "blocked ears" excuse when it suits them. I have vivid memories of crew having more than a cold on certain routes, but flying because the trip was high in allowances. I also remember crew comparing rosters on the crew bus to the a/c etc where it was common for some to say, " I won't be doing that horrible trip darling...I'm due a sick period around then!"
I worked for BA when crew had it extremely easy...and I was equally guilty of frequently going sick because I didn't want that vile MIA or because I wanted the 17th off didn't get it, but still went ahead with plans. Another reason for sickness was to change your roster - if you report sick, you get your trips wiped and from experience they are replaced with some nicer ones when you call in fit. Not sure how things work now, but I bet things haven't changed much.
Like someone said on here, crew throw their toys out of the pram far too often....and I used to spit my dummy out all the time until I grew up and left.
Now, where did I put my lemsip?
I worked for BA when crew had it extremely easy...and I was equally guilty of frequently going sick because I didn't want that vile MIA or because I wanted the 17th off didn't get it, but still went ahead with plans. Another reason for sickness was to change your roster - if you report sick, you get your trips wiped and from experience they are replaced with some nicer ones when you call in fit. Not sure how things work now, but I bet things haven't changed much.
Like someone said on here, crew throw their toys out of the pram far too often....and I used to spit my dummy out all the time until I grew up and left.
Now, where did I put my lemsip?
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miche2,
I quite agree, there are too many crew who take sick days to avoid poorly paid trips and get time off. Unfortunatly their selfishness is spoiling things for the rest of us.
I quite agree, there are too many crew who take sick days to avoid poorly paid trips and get time off. Unfortunatly their selfishness is spoiling things for the rest of us.
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loads of crew are sound down to earth hardworkers who deserve everything they get, others are too up there own behinds.
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Regarding your chance of an upgrade on Emirates......maybe the day hell freezes over. Sorry to sound negative but even as crew you are never upgraded, period!
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see what i mean!
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Regarding your chance of an upgrade on Emirates......maybe the day hell freezes over. Sorry to sound negative but even as crew you are never upgraded, period!
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see what i mean!
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Ok Chewy, I agree that there are times when cabin crew cannot fly with colds/blocked ears. But you also agree that office workers are able to come in with such an illness. Therefore it should be possible for any cabin crew member to come into work and attend for non flying duties. I am sure that the cabin crew would be grateful of the opportunity of not losing money and keeping up their good attendance record. As an engineer we agreed to this policy even though the Airworthiness Notices issued by the CAA tell us we must not attend for duty unless we are fully fit to do so. I think that the above would be a reasonably amicable agreement for all.
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Fact: some crew are well-known to use sickness to engineer days off, a situation that has been the case since the days of BOAC.
Fact: flight crew sickness rate is approximately the same as that for office-based staff - cabin crew sickness would be expected to be the same as flight crew, but it is not.
Fact: there is nothing to prevent cabin crew with colds from office-based working.
Solution: Bidding (at a financial cost, but with motivational benefits), sickness monitoring - to ensure that employees are healthy and getting the required support and that shirkers are identified.
The reason that this irks cabin crew is that it compromises a beloved use of sick days to manipulate bidding, and remove undesirable trips. For many crew, it will have no effect, and indeed they will surely feel more supported that their employer is concerned about their wellbeing while ill.
Nobody is suggesting that if you are unfortunate enough to catch a lot of colds that people would be fired - one has to ask however why some groups are so highly concerned about how this might impact their lifestyle.
I would suggest that any reason of needing to be off more due to being operating crew to be bogus simply due to the flight crew comparison, coupled with many office workers often not working themselves when ill with colds as they are not particularly pleasant or conducive to concentration.
Nothing to fear from genuinely ill people I would say.
Fact: flight crew sickness rate is approximately the same as that for office-based staff - cabin crew sickness would be expected to be the same as flight crew, but it is not.
Fact: there is nothing to prevent cabin crew with colds from office-based working.
Solution: Bidding (at a financial cost, but with motivational benefits), sickness monitoring - to ensure that employees are healthy and getting the required support and that shirkers are identified.
The reason that this irks cabin crew is that it compromises a beloved use of sick days to manipulate bidding, and remove undesirable trips. For many crew, it will have no effect, and indeed they will surely feel more supported that their employer is concerned about their wellbeing while ill.
Nobody is suggesting that if you are unfortunate enough to catch a lot of colds that people would be fired - one has to ask however why some groups are so highly concerned about how this might impact their lifestyle.
I would suggest that any reason of needing to be off more due to being operating crew to be bogus simply due to the flight crew comparison, coupled with many office workers often not working themselves when ill with colds as they are not particularly pleasant or conducive to concentration.
Nothing to fear from genuinely ill people I would say.
Last edited by Lucifer; 18th Jul 2005 at 16:45.
lucifer, all due respect, pilots are not exposed as much as cabin crew... Yes i know we all breathe the same air up there, but chances of catching it airborne in such a dry environment is much less than catching it from the person you just shook hands with as they got off, who not minutes before was wiping their nose.
Picking up trays of tray tables and stacking them into trolleys, having hundreds of people up to 4-5 times a day, sneeze, cough, grab, and touch you... Chances of catching something are a lot higher in the cabin than from the 1-2 other guys in the flight deck.
I do agree that the system is abused. A couple of girls I used to work with were notorious with the amount of sick days they took. Worst thing was, everyone knew about it, including management. What they didnt know is that management were going to do something about them until they dissappeard to another airline 1 giving 12 hours notice of resignation, the other just not turning up for duty - was interesting turning up for work and being the only flight attendant there - but not uncommon.
Its a hard situation to solve, the company I worked for was insistent that we didnt turn up to work with blocked ears. The nature of the flying we did (remote islands) meant if someone went sick there was no way around it other than to fly the aircraft back empty (2hrs each way), pick up a new crew, and do it over. This happened once and cost many 10s of thousands of dollars, and put crewing out for a week.
The idea about watching trends (dates etc) I am suspicious of. Just like we are expected to be available any day of the year, sickness can happen any day of the year. Still, for blatantly obvious cases this could be handy.
Why not just have a list of approved doctors, who they know are not going to fudge medical certificates? Yes its nice to see your own doctor, but other than having private investigators or expecting people to turn up to prove it anyway, I dont see any other alternatives myself.
Picking up trays of tray tables and stacking them into trolleys, having hundreds of people up to 4-5 times a day, sneeze, cough, grab, and touch you... Chances of catching something are a lot higher in the cabin than from the 1-2 other guys in the flight deck.
I do agree that the system is abused. A couple of girls I used to work with were notorious with the amount of sick days they took. Worst thing was, everyone knew about it, including management. What they didnt know is that management were going to do something about them until they dissappeard to another airline 1 giving 12 hours notice of resignation, the other just not turning up for duty - was interesting turning up for work and being the only flight attendant there - but not uncommon.
Its a hard situation to solve, the company I worked for was insistent that we didnt turn up to work with blocked ears. The nature of the flying we did (remote islands) meant if someone went sick there was no way around it other than to fly the aircraft back empty (2hrs each way), pick up a new crew, and do it over. This happened once and cost many 10s of thousands of dollars, and put crewing out for a week.
The idea about watching trends (dates etc) I am suspicious of. Just like we are expected to be available any day of the year, sickness can happen any day of the year. Still, for blatantly obvious cases this could be handy.
Why not just have a list of approved doctors, who they know are not going to fudge medical certificates? Yes its nice to see your own doctor, but other than having private investigators or expecting people to turn up to prove it anyway, I dont see any other alternatives myself.
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The vast majority of the BA non-flying staff who have put their little oppinions on this forum are governed by that awful EG300 sickness policy and (SURPRISE, SURPRISE, YET AGAIN!!!) are jealous that the cabin crew had the wisdom not to sign up to this hideous policy and kept our own local attendance management policy instead. Last year you and your pathetic so-called 'unions' saw the (measley) £1000 payment and 'thank you' free Hotline ticket carrot and took it before you actually thought about the long term consequences. The situation is so dire that BALPA has been pleading with BA and the CAA to have this policy 'softened' for them as the rigours of working at altitude have caused one too many of their members to be put through disciplinary action.
Let's just face facts, shall we everyone? The cabin crew WILL NOT sign up to this policy and if it is enforced BASSA will ballot the membership for industrial action and we WILL go on strike. But the company will back down at the 11th hour (as usual) and will, quite rightly, water-down this policy for the cabin crew community. But the rest of the company will still have the full gamut of EG300 to face when they go sick. Oh well... c'est la vie! Enjoy!
Let's just face facts, shall we everyone? The cabin crew WILL NOT sign up to this policy and if it is enforced BASSA will ballot the membership for industrial action and we WILL go on strike. But the company will back down at the 11th hour (as usual) and will, quite rightly, water-down this policy for the cabin crew community. But the rest of the company will still have the full gamut of EG300 to face when they go sick. Oh well... c'est la vie! Enjoy!
Last edited by BA Boi; 21st Jul 2005 at 20:00.