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keeperboy - I don't feel superior, but I do have first hand experience of being crew and I'm only telling people how things were for me....little ol me.
I see you are a devoted crew member, but don't push people down that don't agree with your rosy vision.It's not rosy at 37,000 ft. The benefits you describe are minimal ( is a benefit waiting at an airport on staff standby wondering when you'll get home? Or worse sticking out like a thumb as staff because you are dressed to the nines compared to all other passengers!) As for the money it is extremely variable. If you were to have a month off, your salary would be pennies whereas in other jobs the money remains the same. Could you afford to have a month off? I bet not!
Let's just agree to differ. I respect your opinion.
I see you are a devoted crew member, but don't push people down that don't agree with your rosy vision.It's not rosy at 37,000 ft. The benefits you describe are minimal ( is a benefit waiting at an airport on staff standby wondering when you'll get home? Or worse sticking out like a thumb as staff because you are dressed to the nines compared to all other passengers!) As for the money it is extremely variable. If you were to have a month off, your salary would be pennies whereas in other jobs the money remains the same. Could you afford to have a month off? I bet not!
Let's just agree to differ. I respect your opinion.
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keeperboy ,
I must take exception to item "C" of your list "safari in Nairobi".
In addition to knowing many slam clickers on the beach fleets
I have had extensive interaction with ba cabin crew in said capital. Going on safari is the probably the one thing they dont do. Adventurous (like clockwork) Activities include dinner in a clique at either haandi,trattoria,or carnivore. Followed by a cab ride back to the intercon and a slam click of the hotel room door.
Talking to someone out of their clique or going to the crewroom for a drink would be considered pushing the boat out
It was a common source of amusement that all the other longhaul crews made the effort but BA tended to be "delsey diners" with the above being the only source of outing for some
A rambling post i admit but it leads me to doubt the varied exciting remainder of your list. Allowance collection is the only thing these people do well , tailoring rostas by sickies is the best way to achieve it. Aplogies to the nice ones and a particularly fine filly of irish origin in 1997 , and of course Clive the shaamuta
I must take exception to item "C" of your list "safari in Nairobi".
In addition to knowing many slam clickers on the beach fleets
I have had extensive interaction with ba cabin crew in said capital. Going on safari is the probably the one thing they dont do. Adventurous (like clockwork) Activities include dinner in a clique at either haandi,trattoria,or carnivore. Followed by a cab ride back to the intercon and a slam click of the hotel room door.
Talking to someone out of their clique or going to the crewroom for a drink would be considered pushing the boat out
It was a common source of amusement that all the other longhaul crews made the effort but BA tended to be "delsey diners" with the above being the only source of outing for some
A rambling post i admit but it leads me to doubt the varied exciting remainder of your list. Allowance collection is the only thing these people do well , tailoring rostas by sickies is the best way to achieve it. Aplogies to the nice ones and a particularly fine filly of irish origin in 1997 , and of course Clive the shaamuta
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Oh ... plenty of stories there, dicksynormous...I remember once getting to Beijing and the captain wanting everyone to meet to sample local culture in the hotel's Irish bar (!!). I declined as I wanted to go into Beijing....but no-one else left the hotel for the entire trip.
Oh the glamour......NOT.
Oh the glamour......NOT.
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Hmmm...obviously not a flyer we have here.
Well, just to help the simple people out:
The variety could be:
a) going to new york for 24 hours/////boring, sleep then leave
b) going to nassau for 5 days////get bored of sunbathing
c) going on safari in nairobi///most dont
d) going to Bangkok and Sydney///once is enough
e) starting work at 7am/and?
f) starting work at 10pm/and?
g) working with any combination of 10,000 other cabin crew and that changing on a trip by trip basis.....//never make friends
h) Doing a flight of 7 hours/is that a plus?
i) Doing a flight of 13 hours/as above?
Well, just to help the simple people out:
The variety could be:
a) going to new york for 24 hours/////boring, sleep then leave
b) going to nassau for 5 days////get bored of sunbathing
c) going on safari in nairobi///most dont
d) going to Bangkok and Sydney///once is enough
e) starting work at 7am/and?
f) starting work at 10pm/and?
g) working with any combination of 10,000 other cabin crew and that changing on a trip by trip basis.....//never make friends
h) Doing a flight of 7 hours/is that a plus?
i) Doing a flight of 13 hours/as above?
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Red fred,
You do make friends, well a microcosm of frienship that is , with all the qualities of talking about your relationships , getting advice , becoming unnaturally close for such a short period, then finding out he key element is missing, trust and real friendship. Many a private life has been ruined on the "advice of friends" downroute. Its a bizarre world. It should be mental disorders due to this world within a world that keep cabin crew grounded, not colds. Lets worship at the god of allowances. Thread creep i know hence the spurious links to a cold.
You do make friends, well a microcosm of frienship that is , with all the qualities of talking about your relationships , getting advice , becoming unnaturally close for such a short period, then finding out he key element is missing, trust and real friendship. Many a private life has been ruined on the "advice of friends" downroute. Its a bizarre world. It should be mental disorders due to this world within a world that keep cabin crew grounded, not colds. Lets worship at the god of allowances. Thread creep i know hence the spurious links to a cold.
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Lucifer,
I have NEVER posted about the 777's without bunks at LGW. EVER. I'm EF LHR crew, and the only things that I've said about LGW is OneFleet and the contract differences etc. between LGW and LHR when explaining to people who have been offered the position of cabin crew at either base and don't know what to do. So, for future reference, I think it best practice to get one's facts right before one starts slinging mud. EG300: It simply cannot be applied to flying crew for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. They seriously need to start winding their necks in. Anyway, you have now made yourself look like a fool, as you used your inaccurate opening remarks to try and make me out to be someone who doesn't know what they're on about - when infact, that couldn't be further from the truth. Trust me, I have my finger on the pulse of what's going on in this company. Which is more than I can say for you however...
I have NEVER posted about the 777's without bunks at LGW. EVER. I'm EF LHR crew, and the only things that I've said about LGW is OneFleet and the contract differences etc. between LGW and LHR when explaining to people who have been offered the position of cabin crew at either base and don't know what to do. So, for future reference, I think it best practice to get one's facts right before one starts slinging mud. EG300: It simply cannot be applied to flying crew for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. They seriously need to start winding their necks in. Anyway, you have now made yourself look like a fool, as you used your inaccurate opening remarks to try and make me out to be someone who doesn't know what they're on about - when infact, that couldn't be further from the truth. Trust me, I have my finger on the pulse of what's going on in this company. Which is more than I can say for you however...
Last edited by BA Boi; 21st Jul 2005 at 19:54.
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You posted and subsequently deleted a thread calling reactionarily for strike action (admittedly a little tougue in cheek) based upon LHR 777s containing bunks while LGW 777s did not, a post that I distinctly remember by the political and flammatory stance that you took, unless perchance you share your username.
Far from your finger being on the pulse, you appear to have neither empathy with management who run a company, nor diplomacy required of a union rep, highlighted by a comment that the management take, take, take.
As stated I have no gripe with crew, I take issue with no can do attitudes. Far from looking out for cabin crew rights - which rightly a union does do as managment can never be all-knowing nor always act with good intent - I suspect such an attitude of rage to be highly protectionary of your position. You have failed to respond in anything other than inflammatory posting and have not yet cottoned on that you have to work with other people other than both yourself, or your group - being cabin crew- both for a company that employs you to evolve and continue to survive.
So far, you have failed to respond to the one key question that I asked, so I ask you for a final time, have you ever taken a day off 'sick' when you have not been sick, solely to manage your personal schedule?
Far from your finger being on the pulse, you appear to have neither empathy with management who run a company, nor diplomacy required of a union rep, highlighted by a comment that the management take, take, take.
As stated I have no gripe with crew, I take issue with no can do attitudes. Far from looking out for cabin crew rights - which rightly a union does do as managment can never be all-knowing nor always act with good intent - I suspect such an attitude of rage to be highly protectionary of your position. You have failed to respond in anything other than inflammatory posting and have not yet cottoned on that you have to work with other people other than both yourself, or your group - being cabin crew- both for a company that employs you to evolve and continue to survive.
So far, you have failed to respond to the one key question that I asked, so I ask you for a final time, have you ever taken a day off 'sick' when you have not been sick, solely to manage your personal schedule?
Last edited by Lucifer; 21st Jul 2005 at 15:22.
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You are getting me mixed up with someone else, Lucifer. There may be someone on this site that calls themself BA Boy, not BA Boi - however that is NOT me. I NEVER posted anything like that so drop that now. As for my sickness, it is very, very good - that's all I'm saying.
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As for my sickness, it is very, very good - that's all I'm saying.
If you cannot deny it, I think we can all interpret what you cannot bring yourself to say.
I will say it for you:
You are a thief of shareholders' money.
You bring disgrance upon your colleagues.
You cause tension between flight and cabin crew.
You poison the atmosphere in your workplace.
You are unprofessional.
If you cannot stomach the valid criticisms from others, it is you, not they, who need to re-evaluate your thoughts of 'EG300'.
The other thread issue is therefore an irrelevance, however I maintain that even if you forget, that thread did indeed exist.
Last edited by Lucifer; 21st Jul 2005 at 17:37.
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Lucifer there are a minority of crew that take the p*ss with calling in sick, but this is a minority .
You have to remember we are the only group within the airline that is actually financially penalised if we call in sick as we lose our allowences, which make up the bulk of our take home pay. Perhaps there are some girls (and boys) with rich hubbys that can afford to take the mick, but for the most of us going sick regularly just isnt an option if we want to eat!
I do agree that BASSA needs to take a firmer stance with those crew that simply are not flexible with their working hours (hello its an airline!) and that call in sick every weekend, xmas and easter. But don't mark as all as the same.
I think that within every department within BA you will find that 80% at one point or another have called in sick when in fact they aren't.
You have to remember we are the only group within the airline that is actually financially penalised if we call in sick as we lose our allowences, which make up the bulk of our take home pay. Perhaps there are some girls (and boys) with rich hubbys that can afford to take the mick, but for the most of us going sick regularly just isnt an option if we want to eat!
I do agree that BASSA needs to take a firmer stance with those crew that simply are not flexible with their working hours (hello its an airline!) and that call in sick every weekend, xmas and easter. But don't mark as all as the same.
I think that within every department within BA you will find that 80% at one point or another have called in sick when in fact they aren't.
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BA introduced a new African service (ex LGW) two or three years ago just before Christmas.
The Cabin Crew were caught for the 23rd Dec departure from available. The Flight Crew from Reserve.
The Flight Crew checked in at LGW to find that 9 of the Cabin Crew had gone sick that morning. The service was cancelled and the return crew who had planned to be home Christmas Eve had their trip extended to almost the new year!
Perhaps BA, being a caring employer, should have dispatched a team of doctors to the homes of those sick crew members.
The Cabin Crew were caught for the 23rd Dec departure from available. The Flight Crew from Reserve.
The Flight Crew checked in at LGW to find that 9 of the Cabin Crew had gone sick that morning. The service was cancelled and the return crew who had planned to be home Christmas Eve had their trip extended to almost the new year!
Perhaps BA, being a caring employer, should have dispatched a team of doctors to the homes of those sick crew members.
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believe me woodpecker, those crew who DID call sick for that xmas trip would have been called in by their Performance Exec when they reported 'fit'.
Should they go sick again over another 'peak period' they could have faced a disciplinary.
Should they go sick again over another 'peak period' they could have faced a disciplinary.
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Woodpecker,
I remember that one well!!.How to ruin someone else's xmas because they could'nt be bothered.I still find it hard to believe that all 9 did not show up
.
To do that to their own colleagues was nothing short of a disgrace.I hope the 9 selfish sods all had a good xmas.....at home!!.
People like that do not deserve their jobs and if any of them read this I hope you were all pleased with yourselves!!.
If you choose to work for a 365 day a year airline you turn up when you are asked, not when you feel like it.
To you and others with this same poor attitude, if you don't like it then do the genuine crew a favour and LEAVE.
In answer to the obvious next question,no I was'nt part of the stranded crew in Africa.
WTDWL.
I remember that one well!!.How to ruin someone else's xmas because they could'nt be bothered.I still find it hard to believe that all 9 did not show up
.To do that to their own colleagues was nothing short of a disgrace.I hope the 9 selfish sods all had a good xmas.....at home!!.
People like that do not deserve their jobs and if any of them read this I hope you were all pleased with yourselves!!.
If you choose to work for a 365 day a year airline you turn up when you are asked, not when you feel like it.
To you and others with this same poor attitude, if you don't like it then do the genuine crew a favour and LEAVE.
In answer to the obvious next question,no I was'nt part of the stranded crew in Africa.
WTDWL.
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It's sackings through the back door
As far as I'm aware, and I'm very aware, there is yet to be a sacking through the EG300 process of "Attendance Management"
The whole process is aimed at the lazy b's that cost the company money by abusing sickness. Those genuine cases are dealt with on their own merit.
If you were to reach the final (possible dismissal) stage then your union would appeal on your behalf and providing you were a genuine case, the company , like any other company would look at adapting your role within the company to suit your abilities... if you are cabin or flight deck crew with recurring ear problems then they would have to consider offering you a ground job.. e.g training, recruitment or, heaven forbid, customer services, where you would grasp a pretty good insight into what the company is really about.
I agree, cabin crew sickness is different from ground staff sickness, and I too have always been of the belief that it is illegal for crew to operate with certain medical conditions. I'm not sure that even redfred is disputing that.
His post is aimed at skivers and the normal bickering that occurs on thes pages has kicked in. The majority of staff are honest, genuine, hard workers who, dare I say it, are proud of what they do day in and day out whether it's "glamourous" or not.
Somebody along the line stated that cabin crew "control the airline" well if any cabin crew believe that, knock it off now.
As a group, you are often a superior acting bunch of prima donnas, but as individuals, you are usually a great bunch of people with the obvious exceptions who spoil it and your image.
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im sure this isnt the only thing that old moaner redfred is incorrect about
Redfred is incorrect about being able to be sick as many days as you like, but only a certan number of occassions per year. There is also a limit for flying crew of 10 days per year. (This includes the day you called up sick, even if it was a day off. So people have taken to giving no notice, and calling on the day of report. Not a good thing for crewing purposes, but this is what the rules make us do.)
Redfred is incorrect about being able to be sick as many days as you like, but only a certan number of occassions per year. There is also a limit for flying crew of 10 days per year. (This includes the day you called up sick, even if it was a day off. So people have taken to giving no notice, and calling on the day of report. Not a good thing for crewing purposes, but this is what the rules make us do.)
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I'm not the only person saying the same thing to you BA Boi:
Keeperboy - I know this is a minority, and I recognise this. I have no gripe aginst cabin crew in general as I say. They - you - are the front line in customer service, and do a great job in general.
As a group, you are often a superior acting bunch of prima donnas, but as individuals, you are usually a great bunch of people with the obvious exceptions who spoil it and your image.
Last edited by Lucifer; 21st Jul 2005 at 22:54.
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Keeperboy,
Interesting topic to start. May I ask what your feelings would be towards a revised EG300 policy, incorporating the fact that crew cannot, and should not, operate with certain conditions, which may well be acceptable to ground staff?
I believe that the unions will accept, and agree to, some form of revision to this policy. Firstly, because cabin crew sickness is still at an unacceptable level, and needs to be controlled/managed in a more proactive way. Secondly, with Mr Walsh soon to take the reigns, the community as a whole may suffer as a consequence of refusing to a corporate policy that, for once, is looking to address and control a situation that is being abused by a small minority. A minority of ground and flying staff I might add.
BA Boi - Please tell me why you so vehemently feel as though this policy cannot be applied to BA crew IF, as I've stated, it is amended accordingly to reflect the crew communities concerns? If you feel, as you obviously do, that you are above the rest of us mere mortals who work for BA, you are deluded my friend. I offer you an open invitation to come and sit with my department in the Compass Centre. I'll buy you a cup of coffee and explain firstly why we need this policy, and secondly, that we all work for the same company and should have the same goals. I am afraid your comments only serve to further anger us insignificant sicknotes on the ground, who contribute little or nothing to the buisiness!
Interesting topic to start. May I ask what your feelings would be towards a revised EG300 policy, incorporating the fact that crew cannot, and should not, operate with certain conditions, which may well be acceptable to ground staff?
I believe that the unions will accept, and agree to, some form of revision to this policy. Firstly, because cabin crew sickness is still at an unacceptable level, and needs to be controlled/managed in a more proactive way. Secondly, with Mr Walsh soon to take the reigns, the community as a whole may suffer as a consequence of refusing to a corporate policy that, for once, is looking to address and control a situation that is being abused by a small minority. A minority of ground and flying staff I might add.
BA Boi - Please tell me why you so vehemently feel as though this policy cannot be applied to BA crew IF, as I've stated, it is amended accordingly to reflect the crew communities concerns? If you feel, as you obviously do, that you are above the rest of us mere mortals who work for BA, you are deluded my friend. I offer you an open invitation to come and sit with my department in the Compass Centre. I'll buy you a cup of coffee and explain firstly why we need this policy, and secondly, that we all work for the same company and should have the same goals. I am afraid your comments only serve to further anger us insignificant sicknotes on the ground, who contribute little or nothing to the buisiness!