Staff Passengers, Worst Nightmare
Join Date: May 2005
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EAAFA:
"What has happened to good manners? It's a pity that the relatives can't be barred from staff travel benefits in cases where the staff themselves are polite, but their husbands/wives are horrible."
Absolutely!
Airlines can ban relatives only if they chose to - it has happened before. Also, staff members can ban their own relatives if need be. A friend of mine had 25 years in Air Canada. His sister got him in hot water with AC twice for behaving bad whilst travelling on his concessions. About ten years ago she was banned - by my friend, and *her* concessions have not been re-instated.
Good manners though? Well, I'm a small town boy now living in a (relatively) big and busy city - politeness and good manners are nowhere to be found, and I miss those nice things.
HF:
"If I'm on an ID90, my main interest is getting on the flight."
If I'm under time pressure I agree, but when I travel stby I try to keep time in hand. On long haul I prefer to thank the counter staff for their time and help and decline the Y seat - and head to the local town for another night in a hotel and bit more being a tourist.
I realy don't understand why any staff traveller must bring any anger or bad feeling into being denied boarding, we all know the deal - if there's space we get on, if not we don't. Same goes for behaviour onboard. The staff dealing with us are our collegues and should be able to rely on the rest of us not to make their day any harder.
Best wishes to all who have to process staff pax.
JU
/Edited for typos/
"What has happened to good manners? It's a pity that the relatives can't be barred from staff travel benefits in cases where the staff themselves are polite, but their husbands/wives are horrible."
Absolutely!
Airlines can ban relatives only if they chose to - it has happened before. Also, staff members can ban their own relatives if need be. A friend of mine had 25 years in Air Canada. His sister got him in hot water with AC twice for behaving bad whilst travelling on his concessions. About ten years ago she was banned - by my friend, and *her* concessions have not been re-instated.
Good manners though? Well, I'm a small town boy now living in a (relatively) big and busy city - politeness and good manners are nowhere to be found, and I miss those nice things.
HF:
"If I'm on an ID90, my main interest is getting on the flight."
If I'm under time pressure I agree, but when I travel stby I try to keep time in hand. On long haul I prefer to thank the counter staff for their time and help and decline the Y seat - and head to the local town for another night in a hotel and bit more being a tourist.
I realy don't understand why any staff traveller must bring any anger or bad feeling into being denied boarding, we all know the deal - if there's space we get on, if not we don't. Same goes for behaviour onboard. The staff dealing with us are our collegues and should be able to rely on the rest of us not to make their day any harder.
Best wishes to all who have to process staff pax.
JU
/Edited for typos/
Last edited by jetupset; 12th Jun 2005 at 05:13.
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Jetupset,
Unfortunately with Qantas (which is my airline's Big Brother), the staff member not the misbehaving relative gets into hot water. Banning a sibling is one thing, but I can't see anyone banning his wife.
Case in point, I recently had an FO and his wife on my flight. She was rude from the moment she boarded, but the final straw was her behaviour when I collected the rubbish prior to securing the cabin for landing.
Of the full fare paying pax, 99% put their ribbish into the supplied bags given to them with their refreshments, except the FO and his wife. Now, the FO was busy writing something (he later said it was a eulogy), but his wife was merely flicking through the Qantas magazine. Their rubbish was loosely piled up on her tray table and some of it was on the floor. Not wanting to cause a scene, I cleared their mess, and the only assistance she offered was to lift her magazine a fraction higher out of my way. She didn't even thank me when I finished. I was going to let it go, but then decided to inform them of the terms and conditions of staff travel, one of which is not to place undue demands on the operating crew's time (eg expecting the crew to clean up their mess). Her reaction was to accuse me of being rude!
Her husband apologised, and even though I felt bad for him, I reported the incident.
Unfortunately with Qantas (which is my airline's Big Brother), the staff member not the misbehaving relative gets into hot water. Banning a sibling is one thing, but I can't see anyone banning his wife.
Case in point, I recently had an FO and his wife on my flight. She was rude from the moment she boarded, but the final straw was her behaviour when I collected the rubbish prior to securing the cabin for landing.
Of the full fare paying pax, 99% put their ribbish into the supplied bags given to them with their refreshments, except the FO and his wife. Now, the FO was busy writing something (he later said it was a eulogy), but his wife was merely flicking through the Qantas magazine. Their rubbish was loosely piled up on her tray table and some of it was on the floor. Not wanting to cause a scene, I cleared their mess, and the only assistance she offered was to lift her magazine a fraction higher out of my way. She didn't even thank me when I finished. I was going to let it go, but then decided to inform them of the terms and conditions of staff travel, one of which is not to place undue demands on the operating crew's time (eg expecting the crew to clean up their mess). Her reaction was to accuse me of being rude!
Her husband apologised, and even though I felt bad for him, I reported the incident.
Having spent a number of years living a long way from my family with no staff benefits I'm really appreciative of what I now get.
But then I'm polite whether I fly full fare or subload.
It is a priviledge and I wish more people were disciplined.
One thing I did notice was last 2 QF international trips on subload the CSM gave me a customer satisfaction survey to fill in. Was it because I was nicely dressed in Y or because it said Staff on the passenger list.
But then I'm polite whether I fly full fare or subload.
It is a priviledge and I wish more people were disciplined.
One thing I did notice was last 2 QF international trips on subload the CSM gave me a customer satisfaction survey to fill in. Was it because I was nicely dressed in Y or because it said Staff on the passenger list.
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EAAFA
Bit harsh wasn't it? I know we've all come across people like that but isn't part of the training supposed to prevent people like this winding you up. Okay, I know you get it every day and maybe that was the final straw but it reminded me of a similar story years ago. It turned out that this particular awkward passenger had been told by her GP that her husband had terminal cancer and the only thing on her mind was how she was going to tell him. Remember, a minute to say something, a lifetime to regret it!
As they say at interviews " If you could have handled it differently, what would you have done?"
Bit harsh wasn't it? I know we've all come across people like that but isn't part of the training supposed to prevent people like this winding you up. Okay, I know you get it every day and maybe that was the final straw but it reminded me of a similar story years ago. It turned out that this particular awkward passenger had been told by her GP that her husband had terminal cancer and the only thing on her mind was how she was going to tell him. Remember, a minute to say something, a lifetime to regret it!
As they say at interviews " If you could have handled it differently, what would you have done?"
Uncle Pete
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You reap what you sow.
I've used staff travel a lot before I retired but now with the cheapo fares we tend to go for the firm seats.
Always turn up looking smart, whether on a firm or standby ticket.
Be polite to the check staff.
Be polite to the boarding staff.
It works!
We've been upgraded on numerous occassions.
MP
I've used staff travel a lot before I retired but now with the cheapo fares we tend to go for the firm seats.
Always turn up looking smart, whether on a firm or standby ticket.
Be polite to the check staff.
Be polite to the boarding staff.
It works!
We've been upgraded on numerous occassions.
MP
I did not have to deal with my wife's behavior onboard when I had staff travel privileges as we were separated at the time and she was not informed of said privileges.
The young children were on their best behavior onboard.
For older relatives, perhaps HR departments should have them sign that they have read the rules and that their travel privileges depend on their following the rules.
I was always polite to all staff and invariably found myself and my children welcome.
An AC gate agent deserves a special note of thanks for upgrading some full-fare Ys to accommodate three interliners who got bumped from their own outfit
The young children were on their best behavior onboard.
For older relatives, perhaps HR departments should have them sign that they have read the rules and that their travel privileges depend on their following the rules.
I was always polite to all staff and invariably found myself and my children welcome.
An AC gate agent deserves a special note of thanks for upgrading some full-fare Ys to accommodate three interliners who got bumped from their own outfit
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It's not just in the aviation business that this occurs... it always has and always will happen.
Many times in my past jobs ive noticed staff coming in acting complete arse holes.
Many times in my past jobs ive noticed staff coming in acting complete arse holes.
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Common sense and intelligence
I have had ID90s for all my life.
I have been son of airline staff since born and then airline staff myself.
I have experienced bad and good staff travellers, both when I was a passenger or when I was working.
It is all down to common sense and respect for other people.
The basic assumption is that all concessions are a privilege and you are not entitled to the same rights as commercial passengers.
Anytime I have seen staff complaining because of long stand-by lists, missed flights, delays, setas,etc I felt sorry for the entire human kind.
This behaviour is unacceptable and they should be banned straight away whatever the rank.
I have even witnessed the following, you will not believe this:
a flight on a B777 was diverted to NewFoundland due to a medical case, a passenger needed urgent medical attention due to hearth attack.
Well, a passenger started complaining (he had an important meeting) with the CSD and the Captain had to intervene: this is another case of human madness. Nothing to do with staff in this case, it is just that some people are simply idiots, whatever the job they do.
I have been son of airline staff since born and then airline staff myself.
I have experienced bad and good staff travellers, both when I was a passenger or when I was working.
It is all down to common sense and respect for other people.
The basic assumption is that all concessions are a privilege and you are not entitled to the same rights as commercial passengers.
Anytime I have seen staff complaining because of long stand-by lists, missed flights, delays, setas,etc I felt sorry for the entire human kind.
This behaviour is unacceptable and they should be banned straight away whatever the rank.
I have even witnessed the following, you will not believe this:
a flight on a B777 was diverted to NewFoundland due to a medical case, a passenger needed urgent medical attention due to hearth attack.
Well, a passenger started complaining (he had an important meeting) with the CSD and the Captain had to intervene: this is another case of human madness. Nothing to do with staff in this case, it is just that some people are simply idiots, whatever the job they do.
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I was positioning in uniform on a flight just behind the overwings. During the "please keep your seatbelts fastened, phones off, bags stowed...." pa on taxy after landing, I looked up and noticed a vs crew member texting away on her mobile. I stood up and walked two rows forwards to ask her to switch it off.
Though just 2 weeks later I was positioning again and another commuting crew member switched on his phone, which had received a text, prompting the crew just behind him to pa for phones to be switched off. I noticed it was him, he looked up and grinned then covered his mouth with his finger as if to say shhhhhhh!!! I was stunned.
Though just 2 weeks later I was positioning again and another commuting crew member switched on his phone, which had received a text, prompting the crew just behind him to pa for phones to be switched off. I noticed it was him, he looked up and grinned then covered his mouth with his finger as if to say shhhhhhh!!! I was stunned.
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ZoomZoom,
exactly same situation as you mate, Father worked in BA as an engineer and all that. As for the code of dress, we continue it today, even though I don't think it's completely neccessary anymore, considering what I've seen other staff wearing. As for the double standards in service, this is Dad's brief as we walk down the jetty:
"If any of you mention we're staff, I'll leave you behind!!"
Shame it's like this. Oh well, you get what you pay for I guess.
Cheers.
exactly same situation as you mate, Father worked in BA as an engineer and all that. As for the code of dress, we continue it today, even though I don't think it's completely neccessary anymore, considering what I've seen other staff wearing. As for the double standards in service, this is Dad's brief as we walk down the jetty:
"If any of you mention we're staff, I'll leave you behind!!"
Shame it's like this. Oh well, you get what you pay for I guess.
Cheers.
Eight Gun Fighter
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With my mob you have to be on your best behavior. There is a dress code (mostly what not to wear) and you don't tell folks you're staff.
One of my staff had a guest on a guest pass, when we had those, and he created a bit of a scene in HNL with the gate staff. Apparently didn't like being treated like all the rest of the stand-by pax. That came to me as a complaint for investigation. I held a hearing. Guest was banned from further guest pass travel and staff member and family (for other reasons related to the guest pass) were suspended from staff travel for one year.
I've also written up a CSD for rudeness and arrogant behaviour when I had the audacity to question why the Fasten Seat Belt sign was on for 6 hours of a nine hour flight during one of the smoothest flights I've ever had. (He had conspired to do this to keep the pax out of aisles - not just during the meal service). Slimy little bastard was hauled up in front of his management.
One of my staff had a guest on a guest pass, when we had those, and he created a bit of a scene in HNL with the gate staff. Apparently didn't like being treated like all the rest of the stand-by pax. That came to me as a complaint for investigation. I held a hearing. Guest was banned from further guest pass travel and staff member and family (for other reasons related to the guest pass) were suspended from staff travel for one year.
I've also written up a CSD for rudeness and arrogant behaviour when I had the audacity to question why the Fasten Seat Belt sign was on for 6 hours of a nine hour flight during one of the smoothest flights I've ever had. (He had conspired to do this to keep the pax out of aisles - not just during the meal service). Slimy little bastard was hauled up in front of his management.
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Harry the cod,
Your judgement of EAAFA clearly shows that you do not know what it's like to deal with rude people on a daily basis. I applaud EAAFA for doing something about people who clearly showed no respect for his position. It sounds to me as if he was reasonable.
Harsh? I don't think so.
Your judgement of EAAFA clearly shows that you do not know what it's like to deal with rude people on a daily basis. I applaud EAAFA for doing something about people who clearly showed no respect for his position. It sounds to me as if he was reasonable.
Harsh? I don't think so.
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Thanks for the support browneyedgirl.
Harry the cod, to clarify, I'm a solo flight attendant and rely on pax to be co-operative. While I don't like being treated badly, it's something I can cope with when it comes from a full fare paying passenger. However, given the rudeness of the person in question (and she wasn't spaced out like the story you tell about a woman in distress, she was just plain rude), I don't think I acted harshly.
If I could change what I did, I probably wouldn't have said anything to her, but I would have reported her. I imagine she gets away with being a b***h throughout her life and not enough people tell her that it's not acceptable.
Harry the cod, to clarify, I'm a solo flight attendant and rely on pax to be co-operative. While I don't like being treated badly, it's something I can cope with when it comes from a full fare paying passenger. However, given the rudeness of the person in question (and she wasn't spaced out like the story you tell about a woman in distress, she was just plain rude), I don't think I acted harshly.
If I could change what I did, I probably wouldn't have said anything to her, but I would have reported her. I imagine she gets away with being a b***h throughout her life and not enough people tell her that it's not acceptable.
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staff pax
i flew my first staff travel flight not long ago..had the best crew and even sent in an email to the customer relations depatment coz i though the crew did a fantastic job... at first i was shy to tell the crew that i worked for the airline as i didnt want to be seen as another staff traveller who thinks they deserve extra but when i did they were so polite and asked me about my job and what i do it was really great!
keep up the good work cabin crew us staff pax can be a hand full lol jk
keep up the good work cabin crew us staff pax can be a hand full lol jk
It basically comes down to everyone understanding the deal - the crew is there to ensure safety on board and to provide the airline's paying customers with a positive experience to reinforce brand loyalty; the staff traveller is there because it's a work-related privilege (or because they're on business or duty). Period
The staff traveller acts discreetly and dresses appropriately to avoid antagonising other passengers and doesn't make extra work for the crew (and is clued up enough to decline a meal if the flight is undercatered or a cosmetic kit if that's company policy.)
The crew acts as if the staff traveller is a normal passenger.
That's the theory, anyway.
Mostly it works, but you experience some absolute shockers (I'm somewhere up in the 2 million mile bracket by now, most of it on business travel...)
Good stuff like the CSD in First saying "Well, from your status, I guess you fly about as often as I do, so I don't need to give you the lowdown on the service" and bad stuff like being absolutely ignored by the CSD in First (different one..) to the extent that my neighbour was about to write a letter of complaint to the company.
Most of us are clued up about what the deal is, I reckon - it's just the idiot fringe of 1% that b***** it up for everyone
The staff traveller acts discreetly and dresses appropriately to avoid antagonising other passengers and doesn't make extra work for the crew (and is clued up enough to decline a meal if the flight is undercatered or a cosmetic kit if that's company policy.)
The crew acts as if the staff traveller is a normal passenger.
That's the theory, anyway.
Mostly it works, but you experience some absolute shockers (I'm somewhere up in the 2 million mile bracket by now, most of it on business travel...)
Good stuff like the CSD in First saying "Well, from your status, I guess you fly about as often as I do, so I don't need to give you the lowdown on the service" and bad stuff like being absolutely ignored by the CSD in First (different one..) to the extent that my neighbour was about to write a letter of complaint to the company.
Most of us are clued up about what the deal is, I reckon - it's just the idiot fringe of 1% that b***** it up for everyone
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Wow...
I'm ALWAYS early at checkin for Standby, at least 3 hours, I check the loads days/weeks in advance. I prebook a jumpseat if really urgent, but I NEVER expect it.
I'm polite to check in staff, never pull rank, always dressed in a suit.
I don't ding, barely leave my seat, I even take my own litre of water and snacks so that I don't have to bother crew. I take what meal I'm given and am grateful if there even is a meal for me. I sit quietly, I'm anonymus. That's the way a ID90 passenger should be and even if you ARE paying full fare ony ANY airline including your own, you should always behave like this.
From a happy ex Crew Controller.
I'm ALWAYS early at checkin for Standby, at least 3 hours, I check the loads days/weeks in advance. I prebook a jumpseat if really urgent, but I NEVER expect it.
I'm polite to check in staff, never pull rank, always dressed in a suit.
I don't ding, barely leave my seat, I even take my own litre of water and snacks so that I don't have to bother crew. I take what meal I'm given and am grateful if there even is a meal for me. I sit quietly, I'm anonymus. That's the way a ID90 passenger should be and even if you ARE paying full fare ony ANY airline including your own, you should always behave like this.
From a happy ex Crew Controller.
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I'm a father of BA staff, who travels far too regularly AKL to Europe, sometimes as a full fare passenger (when I HAVE to get there) and sometimes on staff travel (for personal travel).
In 30 round the world trips in the past 7 years I have therefore had to adapt backwards and forwards between being a treasured business class passenger and 'pond scum' as my son briefed me to understand my staff traveller status when he first got me privileges.
What I have powerfully learned from this is - there's no difference either way. If you treat people with respect and recognise their job constraints and pressures, almost everybody will treat you well and do their best for you. In 40 years of incessant travelling by air I have only had two bad experiences with staff in any class and with any status.
Yet every time I travel I see somebody else behaving badly and getting it back from staff. As it isso obvious what happens I can only assume that for some people demonstrating power is more important than the travel itself. And it istrue that if I want to observe human beings being ****s the most reliable place to do it is Heathrow T4 at staff check in just before the SYD flights close.
So thanks to all of you that have helped to make my travelling life almost always enjoyable, even when stranding me in BKK at midnight when I want to go home.
In 30 round the world trips in the past 7 years I have therefore had to adapt backwards and forwards between being a treasured business class passenger and 'pond scum' as my son briefed me to understand my staff traveller status when he first got me privileges.
What I have powerfully learned from this is - there's no difference either way. If you treat people with respect and recognise their job constraints and pressures, almost everybody will treat you well and do their best for you. In 40 years of incessant travelling by air I have only had two bad experiences with staff in any class and with any status.
Yet every time I travel I see somebody else behaving badly and getting it back from staff. As it isso obvious what happens I can only assume that for some people demonstrating power is more important than the travel itself. And it istrue that if I want to observe human beings being ****s the most reliable place to do it is Heathrow T4 at staff check in just before the SYD flights close.
So thanks to all of you that have helped to make my travelling life almost always enjoyable, even when stranding me in BKK at midnight when I want to go home.
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staff travel
hi everyone
i would just like to add to this as this is one my pet hates
my father worked as c/c for ba for 25years, after which they gave him a letter and said thanks!
anyway i traveled to places as a child that my friends could only dream of going and every time school hols came around thay would stand in amazement when i told them of my travels to places like barbados, st lucia, asia, and oz, ok these are everyday hols now but 20years ago they wernt
my father allways made us were a suit and tie!!
we were told to sit in our seat and shut up and be gratefull we were on the ac full stop!!!!
why cant people be gratefull that they can travel for next to nothing, even when i was 9 or 10 i appreciated just getting on, sometimes we didnt
i myself followed my father into the industry and no work for a private airline
i travel on a full fair ticket paid for by my co, but i am still crew and try and make there life as easy as poss
thanks
i would just like to add to this as this is one my pet hates
my father worked as c/c for ba for 25years, after which they gave him a letter and said thanks!
anyway i traveled to places as a child that my friends could only dream of going and every time school hols came around thay would stand in amazement when i told them of my travels to places like barbados, st lucia, asia, and oz, ok these are everyday hols now but 20years ago they wernt
my father allways made us were a suit and tie!!
we were told to sit in our seat and shut up and be gratefull we were on the ac full stop!!!!
why cant people be gratefull that they can travel for next to nothing, even when i was 9 or 10 i appreciated just getting on, sometimes we didnt
i myself followed my father into the industry and no work for a private airline
i travel on a full fair ticket paid for by my co, but i am still crew and try and make there life as easy as poss
thanks
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i used my staff travel for the first time the other week and went over to DXB.i travelled with my bf who is 6'5",on the way out they moved us to an overwing and on the return they put us in WTP,which was nice of them.the only thing i was quite shocked at is that on a 6 hour flight there were only 2 bar services,i thought it would have been twice that,i am crew myself and on a2hr BCN or MAD flight we try and do two drinks runs.on the outbound they came thru once with water,but on the return they were fab kept coming thru with juice and water and timed the drinks nicely with the meal.the only thing i was bothered about was getting on the flight using an ID90,if we get upgraded or whatever its an added bonus.