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Old 29th Jul 2005, 11:08
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Zigzag, well maintained or not a 737-200 just insnt fuel efficent. In an industry with such little margin for profit I doubt their other cost savings you talk about would be enough to off set this. Look at the history of Australian aviation, Copmass I and II, Kendell, Impulse etc the Australian skies are tough market to crack. The only reason Virgin managed to sustain was because of the demise of Ansett.
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Old 29th Jul 2005, 21:09
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Zigzag


After seeing your location, it all makes sense...........

Yup am in London, but workin for Qantas.

Have only been here a while from Australia but have already bumped into many many people who were burnt by his 'non-paying-charter-airline' in the uk.
A 737-200 would be the least effiecient aircraft in the current Australian domestic market, so sorry if that offends, but it is accurate.
If you choose to work for him, I would ask for my pay in advance if i were you.
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Old 29th Jul 2005, 22:14
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Galley Guru - as ex Kendell tech crew, I have to point out that Kendell was always a profitable operation until Ansett drove it into the ground with huge CRJ debts and the like.
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Old 30th Jul 2005, 08:57
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Thanks Pete, just stating the Aussie market was tough. Thanks for confirming that.
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Old 30th Jul 2005, 12:50
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Galley Guru,
Please do look at Compas/Impulse etc...
They offered nothing new, perhaps low fares which accomodated more 'bus and train people' into the skies (nothing wrong with that).

Virgin Blue stepped into fill only some of the gap left by ansett. Ansett had a reputation of doing business class very well. Whos filled those shoes? Certainly not QF domestically! Their 737s business class is laughable - their crew try hard with what they have - a meal that leaves you completely unsatisfied, unleaded petrol masked as wine, and about as much attention as any other passenger in economy. To have to press a call bell for a refill of petrol in business class is not good. (not the crews fault, theyre usually run off their feet down the back!).
The 767s arent much better - still the same s**t, just a different paddock. Guess you could say the A330s are marginally better, if you have a degree in how to operate the seat, or have more than the 90minute flight to work it out yourself.

Ozjet will offer something completely different. I guess compared to Business class at QF, it should be branded first class. No waiting at the gate sipping unleaded (premium if youre lucky), waiting for the other 250 people down the back to board. No fighting off Nev, Bev and their 42 kids for the masses of 'NZ Samsonites' at the carousel on arrival.

People go on about frequency - Hah, you have obviously never tried to change a flight on the day of departure with QF. If you turn up at the airport 2-3hours earlier trying to get an earlier flight, it has to be an awfully quiet day to get bumped - most of the time they will say no chance (always filled with upgrades).

They only need 29, above that and theyre in the money.

So, if you got to the airport at 6pm on a sunday night, and you have to go to melbourne. Your choices are:
JQ: Got one flight left, in a few hours and its to AVV
QF: Got a ton of flights left, all full, or fares at full fare.
DJ: Chockas - got a few full fares left here and there.
O7: Got 2-3 flights left, full fare economy but business class service with a meal you can call dinner...

Who you going to pick?!
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Old 31st Jul 2005, 01:53
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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G'day all,
wow what an interesting thread.. just read it from go - woe... and i must say that i do see a market (even if it is just a small one) but still a market to be had none the least..
My best wishes go out to all the crew about to embark on this exciting journey.. may it be all you ever hoped for..
To those who take glee in squashing the dreams of others may i just say that I'm so glad that i do not fly with u! You are the kind of person this industry does'nt need.
Remember impulse airlines didnt fail... they have just changed there skin (so to speak) and have become the third largest airline in the domestic market in the form of Jetstar... and if uncle Geoff has his way (from reading articles published in the financial review and age) I'm sure they will be not only a major domestic carrier but worldwide carrier is on the cards for their expansion into the future...
Just remember how this industry always seems to cycle in one form or another, one day it may be u on the other foot....
Best wishes to O7 crew. i'll wave to you out the window as u fly past...

Paul
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Old 31st Jul 2005, 03:41
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Yup am in London, but workin for Qantas.Have only been here a while from Australia but have already bumped into many many people who were burnt by his 'non-paying-charter-airline' in the uk. A 737-200 would be the least effiecient aircraft in the current Australian domestic market, so sorry if that offends, but it is accurate. If you choose to work for him, I would ask for my pay in advance if i were you.
What do you expect, working in London, in the Aviation scene - of course you're going to bump into people involved in European at some stage. If a majority of them have had a bad experience, no doubt that would distort your view on it. Ozjet simply has to be assessed on face value - attempting to capture a small, niche market that may or may not be there. What happened with European (at this stage) has no ties whatsoever with Ozjet.

737 efficiency does not offend me one little bit - I agree. However, the increased fuel burn will be offset by the absence of leasing/acquistion costs - if fuel goes higher, the benefit will obviously lessen.

And no, I wont be working for "him", but I hope they do become a success. There may just be a market there waiting to be tapped into. Time will tell.
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Old 31st Jul 2005, 11:34
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Champagne and warm nuts sir before your take-off?


Last edited by anth1980; 31st Jul 2005 at 11:45.
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Old 31st Jul 2005, 23:32
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What happened with European (at this stage) has no ties whatsoever with Ozjet.

NO TIES WHATSOEVER????

Whats about that men call PAUL STOODART, i believe its the same one who will not pay your salary at one point. be carefull guys the ties are there and very visible.

By the way those 737-200 are very old, full of technical problems, sick and elderly, be prepare for long delays.

Once again all the best
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Old 1st Aug 2005, 03:30
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What I find hilarious is that they are re-introducting the BAe146 to OzJet? Good grief, are you serious? No amount of 'dolling' up with ever make these jets (*cough* read my name) suitable for 'all J class', they are a disgrace. Bad enough QANTASlink still use them with 8 J class seats, Just love to see company directors and ceo's trying to use the crapper on these pathetic excuse for a plane, they don't have toilets, they have thunderboxes, but they whip ar$e in the landing department over any other jet I have ever flown in. Anyway good luck to them, and on fuel efficiency, these bastards burn 2000kg fuel p/hour, up there with QF/DJ's 737NG. Good luck I say, I know those that are hired deep down are thinking "$hit I hope this works", just sad to see ex AN going back potentially for another spanking.
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Old 1st Aug 2005, 04:40
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leave it alone we dont care

I wish i could meet all those people who keep knocking the guys who have and recieved good news of employment with 07.

leave it alone! Were you at the interviews or assessment day?

Most likely no! i must say you keep bagging the Airline before it has even had a chance.....Not to mention your probably one of those 'MAM' crew who think their job is guarenteed, I mean come on you dont even have job stability!

I could not care about any of the risks involved with taking a position like this, all I want to do is fly. and let me tell you I have had my experiences with QF ( I am sorry to offend those guys who have not bagged us working for QF) and I would rather be working for 07...QF showed me no respect when they called me up to work for them and gave me no alternative but to basically quit my job and go with them within 3 days....What am I doing now? nothing! All because QF persuated me to take a position they knew would not lead me into anything perminent. Pretty strong words but you can see the frustration from those negative posts.

As far as 07 is concerned...well if it does fall at least I can say they showed me respect when i went through the application process.

As for the guys posting who live in the UK. Get over it and accept the fact that it could work here and us aussies are all about taking risks in life. What is money anyway?

I am a true professional when it comes to customer service. And it annoys me to think that a select few of you out there flying dont give a crap. Let us go beyond the 'Paul Stodard' scenario in the UK and move forward to some more interesting news, such the excitement of a new Airline in the Australian Sky.

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Old 1st Aug 2005, 08:49
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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NO TIES WHATSOEVER???? Whats about that men call PAUL STOODART, i believe its the same one who will not pay your salary at one point. be carefull guys the ties are there and very visible.By the way those 737-200 are very old, full of technical problems, sick and elderly, be prepare for long delays.Once again all the best
The two set-ups are completely different. Whatever happened at European has nothing to do with Ozjet.

I guess you look at the glass and call it half empty too.

He wont be paying my wages - don't worry about that. Sounds like you are a victim of what happened at European - sorry to hear that, if that is the case.

I dare say the 737's wouldn't be "very old", "sick", "elderly" and "full of technical problems", if you were happy and working for them, would they?

According to some figures floating around, they had well over 90% dispatch reliability/OTP or something (at European) - someone must be telling lies!
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Old 1st Aug 2005, 19:36
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ZIGZAG
You are right, european has nothing to do with the ozjet set up, but the owner is the same, and that is what it really worry me. Think a bit further, do some enquires and you will find out the truth.
TIME WILL TELL.
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Old 3rd Aug 2005, 23:30
  #74 (permalink)  
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Who you gonna trust?

Hi Anth1980,

Unfortunately, O7's owner appears to have a reputation which is now showing up in Oz. I think our colleagues are trying to tell you something.

The owner of O7 has no RPT airline operating experience and by what I can see has no business plan. Just look at the way they conduct their affairs here big noting themselves, playing tricks on their website to prevent your good colleagues applying for jobs, changing bases. A solidly founded airline with a good business plan doesn't need to do these things. Were you aware the company was applying for a grant? How is that? It shows financial weakness, in my view, so let that be a indicator. Clearly putting Minardi up for sale must again tell you that the show is on rocky ground. Being nice has nothing to do with it. The fact is O7 is unsustainable.

EAL's charter operations ran on a high despatch reliability because they were not under the pressure of a RPT schedule. EAL's actions when the sale with the Bath group fell through was to suddenly dismiss staff so you have been alerted.

Why do people knock this prospective carrier O7 (whatever that means)? Perhaps it's because its owner really has upset a few business people and mainly in Sydney Melbourne and Adelaide and continues to do so. I predict Ozjet will be out of business within 9 months because it simply has no sustainable advantage.

Who you gonna trust Anth1980?
 
Old 4th Aug 2005, 00:02
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who am I going to trust?

At this stage of my life i dont really care. I dont really trust any of the current Australian Airlines.

If O7 (Ozjet) can give me an opportunity to fly for a year, one month, one week...I dont care. I couldnt even care if The Wiggles were running the Airline. I just want to get up there and have the chance to be the best and do what i love.

When approaching Airlines;Do you know how competitive it is? Do you know how hard it is when you have no flying experience and dont look like Brad Pitt?

I am simply stating that we all should give 07 a go. And I am sure that 07 have a good Business and Marketing plan.. I just cant fathem a new company spending so much time, money and effort for nothing.

A wise man once said to me if you fall get back up.

(unless you have any job offers for me with another Airline then I am sorry but I wont be missing out on this one)

I do appreciate your feedback though and I would like to assure you that I am a big boy who is aware of the concequences.


Last edited by anth1980; 4th Aug 2005 at 07:22.
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Old 4th Aug 2005, 04:24
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Legal_Counsel - I think you are just bitter because you missed the application process by not being proactive enough to find out how to apply as could possibly be found on another website where wannabes chat

The financial incentive package they applied for is the same one that Virgin Blue received from the QLD government back in the day when people were saying the same thing about them - it will never work in this country - big deal.

Also everyone keeps talking about Paul Stoddart this and that - lets look at the management team that will be driving it. CEO - well respected ex CIO at REX, Senior Operations Manager and entire Operations team - ex DJ and QF, Cabin Crew Management ex QF and European, Maintenance - AN Engineering, National Sales Manager ex QF, National Customer Service Manger ex REX, AN, NZ, QF, SQ - yeah actually you are right no RPT experience anywhere there.

People will give it ago regardless if it's here for a week or 25 years. It's coming.
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Old 4th Aug 2005, 12:06
  #77 (permalink)  
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Unless they want a Lawyer

I guess it is not so much of wanting a job with them. I suppose my mind ticks over about the couldron from which this beast is being moulded. It's a potpouri of uncoordinated talent, it would seem. And if you look at the way it is coming together how can you seriously expect it to run smoothly. Ansett Engineers? Well we all know about that lot and the 767s.

It goes against the flow for a product like this (which is only one small aspect of conducting airline operations) will have sufficient support from the public and even business because statistically the business market is simply not sufficiently consolidated to fill an airliner at a particular point in time for high yield.

And I guess if you are lucky to have got a job with them after you went to Jetstar, Virgin Blue and Qantas, may be you are lucky.
 
Old 4th Aug 2005, 16:19
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"When approaching Airlines;Do you know how competitive it is? Do you know how hard it is when you have no flying experience and dont look like Brad Pitt?"

Yes competetive, yes hard to get in, but the days of having to look like supermodels to get the job is well and truly over, which is obviously a positive (unless this is part of the airlines marketing plan.....) and definately no flying experience is required (sometimes this seems to be seen as a negative)! Just look at some of the crew recently recruited by Adecco for QF! First job out of school, to the point where the way some of these people act onboard towards pax etc is embarassing!

Please don't think like the above statement as you won't get anywhere! Good luck with OZjet etc.

Oz
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Old 4th Aug 2005, 17:41
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Oh puhleeeezzz!

Legal - your statement about the Ansett Engineers is RIDICULOUS. Say it with me - RIDICULOUS!
Please do some proper research about it before posting uninformed comments like that - it will give you a bit more credibility. (for the record, i have no personal interest in defending the engineers - no relatives etc - but at least I took the time to actually listen and understand the situation).

Now - give anth a break - if you cant see that he is very passionate about a flying career - you are blind. Any airline would be lucky to have him for the passion alone - one was lucky, but they screwed him over.

As for looking at Virgin, Jetstar, Qantas before looking at ozjet (and implying that O7 crew are bottom of the heap and 'lucky'), thats an insult to many very experienced, brilliant people.
How bout you take a look at just how many CURRENT Jetstar, Virgin, Rex, Australian and even Emirates crew applied and/or got the job with Ozjet. Everybody has a different ambition - and it would seem that the ones who are wanting/are going to ozjet from Virgin/Qantas/Jetstar/Australian/Regional Express are doing it because the idea of providing an inflight service to be proud of appeals to them. And to clarify AGAIN - im not saying CC dont work hard elsewhere - but a tradesman is only as good as his tools and service wise - no airline in australia quite cuts it at the moment.

Now, I am not saying it DEFINITELY will be a success. But can any of you current CC GUARANTEE you will have a job in 5 years? There is no security in this industry! Anyone who believes otherwise is kidding themselves.

A potpouri of unco-ordinated talent hey? You really think that? Simply - you are wrong. Very wrong. Uncoordinated NO. Talent, YES. These people arent just doing it for kicks people! And theyre not there because they excelled in TAFE knitting PEOPLE! They have proven abilities, and I would personally think (going by my current experiences with them) that they will do a better job than Dixon and his circus.

Now look, whether you think they will fail or not, give it a break. Stop being so god-damned negative, get out and smell the roses. How about we all just wait and see. Of course, if you are certain you know more about:
-Operating costs of a 737-200
-Potential market for the airline
-Every operational aspect of starting an airline

than the people that are actually doing it at the moment - and actually so far making a success of it - than go right ahead.

Until then, back off, and respect the fact that these guys have put an application for an AOC to CASA that is considered to be the most professional they have seen. Surely that professionalism isnt limited to their abilities to cut through red tape. Surely they deserve some respect for acomplishing that task - and a little faith they know what they are doing, rather than being referred to as a 'potpouri of uncoordinated talent'.

As for the base changing from ADL to MEL - do some research. MEL has always been their temporary base. This was well known, and only since the ADL govt has woken up and realised this is the case (a few months later!) they have started to whine. The second aircraft is here... let up and give it a chance - you might be surprised. (I hope you are!).
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Old 4th Aug 2005, 21:15
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Has anyone read the title of this thread??? This thread is called "Ozjet Flight Attendant recruitment"

Perhaps we should rename it to "The Great Ozjet Debate - will it or won't it work"

The thread was started for information regarding the hiring of flight attendants for this new airline. It has become a battlefield of people dashing the hopes and aspirations of some very excited and enthusiastic Cabin Crew who have been appointed to be the face of the airline.

I have said it before. I think I need to say it again. If you don't have anything positive to say in this thread then stay out of it.

Good luck to the Cabin Crew that HAVE been hired for Ozjet, and to those who are due to start in the New Year. Lets show all these non believers what a great airline WE are going to make it. QF Business class - watch out. There's a new kid on the block!
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