Qantas London base
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Qantas London base
Does anyonw know if Qantas will start recruting for the London base? Anyone got any info?
Last i heard QF were keen to base crews in London (similar to ther air nz operation thats been very successful over many years) but it was under discussion with the FAAA and unions.
Last i heard QF were keen to base crews in London (similar to ther air nz operation thats been very successful over many years) but it was under discussion with the FAAA and unions.
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Good Grief it hasn't even been confirmed yet.
The FAAA will fight it to the bitter end so I expect it may be a while before they start recruiting for FAs based in London.
SG
The FAAA will fight it to the bitter end so I expect it may be a while before they start recruiting for FAs based in London.
SG
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I agree with ozskipper! I think it would be necessary to strike if this happens. The company makes good profits so why do they need to make cut backs for staff? At the end of the day...it's the staff who make the profit for the company. If they need to make cut backs theyshould make cuts elsewhere this is unfair!
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Someone from QF mentioned in a previous post the other day that all of the shortlisters should contact Today Tonight or A Current Affair or something and let them know what's going on. Majority of these shortlisters have been on the shortlist over 15 months and offered nothing but a measely 10 month long haul contract with nothing at the end of it, yet QF can quite easily give 300-400 permanent jobs to London based crew! Disgusting QF! The Spirit of Australia i don't think so! Everyone keep your eyes glued to the t.v screen. Keep Australian jobs in Australia, i agree!!!!!
Oz
Oz
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Sorry, but I say this not to offend anyone. If I do I apologise.
But the comments about keeping Aussie Jobs in Australia I find to be quite negative.I work for a UK airline and work and have worked with many Aussies as well as spanish,french,italians (i could go on) . Why are we not able to work for a company like Qantas if you are able to work for british airlines?
Isnt it all about keeping airlines flying, not about who works for who ?
But the comments about keeping Aussie Jobs in Australia I find to be quite negative.I work for a UK airline and work and have worked with many Aussies as well as spanish,french,italians (i could go on) . Why are we not able to work for a company like Qantas if you are able to work for british airlines?
Isnt it all about keeping airlines flying, not about who works for who ?
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I understand where you are all coming from but maybe you should look at the positives of flying with crews of other nationalities. At Virgin Atlantic we had crews based in four other contries and they were always great fun to fly with as they would have different perspectives to us quiet often.
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Baboy,
This isn't about Qantas crew not wanting to work with other nationalities who now live in Australia. We have many different nationalties working as crew at QF already.
HOWEVER, QF has said it wants to move up to 1450 Australian jobs to a London base, on diferent contracts i.e. Cheaper.
The FAAA and QF crew will fight this until Geoff Dixon see's sense and realises its not want employees or the general public wants.
This isn't about Qantas crew not wanting to work with other nationalities who now live in Australia. We have many different nationalties working as crew at QF already.
HOWEVER, QF has said it wants to move up to 1450 Australian jobs to a London base, on diferent contracts i.e. Cheaper.
The FAAA and QF crew will fight this until Geoff Dixon see's sense and realises its not want employees or the general public wants.
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I think my point may have been missed.
I've absolutely no objection whatsoever to other nationalities working for QF.
However, I'm not in favour of jobs being shipped off shore - regardless of the industry!
I've absolutely no objection whatsoever to other nationalities working for QF.
However, I'm not in favour of jobs being shipped off shore - regardless of the industry!
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Down-caste
caste (kãst): n :a social class separated from others by distinctions of hereditary rank or profession or wealth
Issues thus far...
In November 2002 Qantas advertised Flight Attendant positions in a variety of media - Casual, Fixed Term AND Permanent.
People who successfully completed each stage of the recruitment process were advised, by email at the 5th and final stage, that they were on a 'shortlist', hence the name 'Shortlister'.
For most, that Stage 5 email arrived in February 2003.
Before this it had been customary practice of QF to offer every 'Shortlister' a training date....
EXCEPT...
Since then...
In the last 8 months while telling 'Shortlisters' things such as clearly the current downturn in the airline industry are impacting on any immediate initial Flight Attendant training programs with in Qantas, Qantas has recruited, trained, and increased the number of crew employed on a Long Haul base in Auckland.
Under New Zealand employment law Qantas is their employer, regardless of the piece of paper AKL crew sign at Adecco. More fool them for putting up with being what is now a caste system of cabin crewing at Qantas. BKK caste and AKL caste, with the Australian based caste on top. For BKK and AKL caste, less pay, no staff travel (worth mentioning), no super, no health care, no MPG or MBT. No seniority, no entitlement to apply to be a CSS or CSM. God help them if they ask to do anything except galley.
Then there are the expanding MAM caste, and the latest, possibly bottom of the ladder '10 month' caste. Even the AKL caste get 3 year terms.
Qantas advertised jobs in Australia, ran a recruitment program, and placed people on an approved applicant list (shortlist) but has not followed through in good faith. The people who were first in line have not been offered training as is customary practice.
So now, training positions are being filled en masse for externals in AKL (3 year terms). And the airline wants to open a London base too so that it can end Australian crew overnighting in the UK.
25% of all cabin crew jobs to be offshore.
Interesting to see where things are in 12 months.
Issues thus far...
In November 2002 Qantas advertised Flight Attendant positions in a variety of media - Casual, Fixed Term AND Permanent.
People who successfully completed each stage of the recruitment process were advised, by email at the 5th and final stage, that they were on a 'shortlist', hence the name 'Shortlister'.
For most, that Stage 5 email arrived in February 2003.
Before this it had been customary practice of QF to offer every 'Shortlister' a training date....
EXCEPT...
Since then...
In the last 8 months while telling 'Shortlisters' things such as clearly the current downturn in the airline industry are impacting on any immediate initial Flight Attendant training programs with in Qantas, Qantas has recruited, trained, and increased the number of crew employed on a Long Haul base in Auckland.
Under New Zealand employment law Qantas is their employer, regardless of the piece of paper AKL crew sign at Adecco. More fool them for putting up with being what is now a caste system of cabin crewing at Qantas. BKK caste and AKL caste, with the Australian based caste on top. For BKK and AKL caste, less pay, no staff travel (worth mentioning), no super, no health care, no MPG or MBT. No seniority, no entitlement to apply to be a CSS or CSM. God help them if they ask to do anything except galley.
Then there are the expanding MAM caste, and the latest, possibly bottom of the ladder '10 month' caste. Even the AKL caste get 3 year terms.
Qantas advertised jobs in Australia, ran a recruitment program, and placed people on an approved applicant list (shortlist) but has not followed through in good faith. The people who were first in line have not been offered training as is customary practice.
So now, training positions are being filled en masse for externals in AKL (3 year terms). And the airline wants to open a London base too so that it can end Australian crew overnighting in the UK.
25% of all cabin crew jobs to be offshore.
Interesting to see where things are in 12 months.
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Re-London!!
I felt i have to put my two cents worth here !! I think its important that a company such as Qantas hires crew of all backgrounds as Qantas does fly overseas to many countrys. We are lucky as we in Australia have all languages and cultures here. Why go oversea ..?? CHEAP LABOUR !! I do however not agree with QF getting cheaper labour overseas and not giving anything to these people in way of basic pay,superanuation and staff travel! To make matters worse Qantas markets itself as an Australian ICON !! It will be great one day to get on board and be greated by locals from London !! Get the feel of British Airways and then transit BKK and oh !! I feel like wee on board Thai international!! There is nothing Australian about that! Fly to America via Auckland ...Get on board and opps I though we were on Air NewZealand! The public are very passionate abot Qantas and people only pay that extra bit of money at the moment because they like to feel at home when they board the aircraft!! If they dont get this they WILL choose to fly the asian carries !! Its cheaper and YES the same crew on board!! I think this is the most important phase of history that the crew BOTH Long and short HAUL stick together as well as all the other Qantas staff !! Its just an examle of what is happening to the current short list people. They had gone for an interview with Qantas advising them that it it for FULL time employmant as per the form that peopel completed on interview then get offerd 10 months!! I thinks its about time the externals all started to speak up media local news etc..TRUST me Qantas does not like publicity!! Its sad they are getting so many people using them to work contract work and then flick them of !! All that hard work for nothing !! Using people !! I am not saying its bad for everybody but it not great for a lot of staff out there !! Not sure what thye will be doing next year!! No sick leave !! NO holidays !! Anyway thats my bit for today !! All Im saying is stick together and take it further ! ! Qantas wants people that are passionate and I tgink a lot of ppruners are !! Lets shoe them that Qantas is Australian and that it should stay Australian!!!
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ib16uk - Either you didnt bother reading the posts above or your b
y brave!!
I can understand where you lot are coming from. Every time I pick up a phone to speak to BA or BT I end up talking to someone in India!
I am some what surprised tough that this would be seen as saving money. How much are you guys on. The cost of living in London is horrendous so why Qantas thing there would be floods of cabin crew over here working for next to nothing is beyond me!
y brave!! I can understand where you lot are coming from. Every time I pick up a phone to speak to BA or BT I end up talking to someone in India!
I am some what surprised tough that this would be seen as saving money. How much are you guys on. The cost of living in London is horrendous so why Qantas thing there would be floods of cabin crew over here working for next to nothing is beyond me!
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From what I have heard the base in London will comprise of 60% Australians ( who currently work for QF and can opt to take a basing in London under QF sponsorship ie. working visa etc for those not EU passport holders) and 40% will be ( by requirement) locals ( whatever nationality) recruited from there. Also, I have heard that they salary will be excellent - not comparing at all to the lower wages of the UK counterparts). The main saving Qantas will be making wil,l be about 25 million dollars in overnight accommodation costs- per year.
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Could you imagine the kind of trouble that could happen with UK based crews earning less then what other QF workers in Australia are earning doing the same job? I personaly think it's a recipe for bitterrness between the different based crews.
The UK based crew are simply going be to paid less. It's cheap labour!
If someone from the UK wanted to work for QF they are welcome and should come and be based in Australia and do what all QF workers do in the same boat (I know there are some already based in other countries as cheaper labour) no matter what country they're from. Many passionate flight attendants do this already with other airlines like Emirates and it does them well!
Yes at the end of the day Qantas is a business with shareholders and yes it does have to make money. So shouldn't a business invest in it's greatest assets in a "PEOPLE" industry. The flight attendant spends more time with the customer then anyone else and a happy flight attendant between a long flight between Singapore and London is what makes more money. This can mean the difference between losing and gaining customers who have the choice of flying many other carriers from AUS to UK or other EU ports.
If they wanted to make cut backs they should make them elsewhere QF workers from all parts of the company could think of zillions of smart ways things could be done cheaper.
The UK based crew are simply going be to paid less. It's cheap labour!
If someone from the UK wanted to work for QF they are welcome and should come and be based in Australia and do what all QF workers do in the same boat (I know there are some already based in other countries as cheaper labour) no matter what country they're from. Many passionate flight attendants do this already with other airlines like Emirates and it does them well!
Yes at the end of the day Qantas is a business with shareholders and yes it does have to make money. So shouldn't a business invest in it's greatest assets in a "PEOPLE" industry. The flight attendant spends more time with the customer then anyone else and a happy flight attendant between a long flight between Singapore and London is what makes more money. This can mean the difference between losing and gaining customers who have the choice of flying many other carriers from AUS to UK or other EU ports.
If they wanted to make cut backs they should make them elsewhere QF workers from all parts of the company could think of zillions of smart ways things could be done cheaper.
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Hello Biscuit, QFMike, all...
Reading your posts, one question comes to my mind... what do you think we feel like to be called "cheap labour"??
If you guys were to relocate and make more money because of that, I don't see why the " local cheap labour " (moi eventually?) would complain about it. If you do the sacrifice to leave everything behind for a few years, for the love of your job, for the experience or whatever reason you have to relocate, then congratulations! You deserve to earn a little more!
As you may already know, I was married to an Aussie for 2 years but I recently lost my australian visa and had to say goodbye to both the country and any possible job there.
Thankfully I happen to have a UK passport and here in the UK I got the opportunity to find work as a cabin crew. Yes the salary is not great, I've been so far taking home a net pay of £1200 per month (approx. AUD 2800 - doesn't sound that cheap to me!) and trust me, I would definitely apply if there was an opportunity to work for QANTAS as I really enjoy working with Aussies, no matter if the job will never bring me back to Australia. This doesn't mean I want someone of the crew in Australia to lose his job because of me!
Finally, I was thinking about Virgin Atlantic. It seems they'll start flying to Oz early December. Don't you think VA will expand their base in Australia and take few more Aussies onboard to work for them? Don't you think your "locals" will have better opportunities? How many crew from Virgin Blue will be transferred to Long-Haul?? Do you think the U.K. crew would complain about this? Not sure........
I see your point guys and I respect you buckets, but I think we need to be a little more open minded. My 2 cents!
FJ
Reading your posts, one question comes to my mind... what do you think we feel like to be called "cheap labour"??
If you guys were to relocate and make more money because of that, I don't see why the " local cheap labour " (moi eventually?) would complain about it. If you do the sacrifice to leave everything behind for a few years, for the love of your job, for the experience or whatever reason you have to relocate, then congratulations! You deserve to earn a little more!
As you may already know, I was married to an Aussie for 2 years but I recently lost my australian visa and had to say goodbye to both the country and any possible job there.
Thankfully I happen to have a UK passport and here in the UK I got the opportunity to find work as a cabin crew. Yes the salary is not great, I've been so far taking home a net pay of £1200 per month (approx. AUD 2800 - doesn't sound that cheap to me!) and trust me, I would definitely apply if there was an opportunity to work for QANTAS as I really enjoy working with Aussies, no matter if the job will never bring me back to Australia. This doesn't mean I want someone of the crew in Australia to lose his job because of me!
Finally, I was thinking about Virgin Atlantic. It seems they'll start flying to Oz early December. Don't you think VA will expand their base in Australia and take few more Aussies onboard to work for them? Don't you think your "locals" will have better opportunities? How many crew from Virgin Blue will be transferred to Long-Haul?? Do you think the U.K. crew would complain about this? Not sure........
I see your point guys and I respect you buckets, but I think we need to be a little more open minded. My 2 cents!
FJ
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Good point floaty!
It is more than normal that BA/VS/BD or any other UK based airline hire french/spanish/italian crew as they (we, I'm dutch...) don't need a visa to work in the UK.
We call that the European Union...
Concerning Virgin they have organised a kind of work swop:
Aussie from VBlue working for VA and VA crew working for VB.
Isn't that great and rewarding?
It is more than normal that BA/VS/BD or any other UK based airline hire french/spanish/italian crew as they (we, I'm dutch...) don't need a visa to work in the UK.
We call that the European Union...
Concerning Virgin they have organised a kind of work swop:
Aussie from VBlue working for VA and VA crew working for VB.
Isn't that great and rewarding?
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I think a lot of you are missing the point.
We want jobs kept in Australia. QF are doing it to save $$. Or maybe it's because if they make a better profit by saving those $$ Mr Dixon gets a whole lot more cash in his already big fat back pocket!! It's his own personal agenda!
You can only work for one company if you want to work longhaul out of Australia. And thats QF (that includes Australian cause you're an employee of the QF group!).
Unfortunately Floaty, I don't have the priviledge of having a UK passport and also living on 2800 a month with the cost of living over there is really not so appealling to me!
There is also the small fact that there are a good number of Australians on a "list" here for a job with the big Q. Remember we've been told that we're suitable to work for them & when positions are available then we should get a start date.
Funny that positions open up in AKL & BKK and now it seems London will be next. Most of us have been offered nothing. Yet some have been offered a measly 10 mth contract which won't be renewed as they're hoping to have the bloody london base opened by then. Which in black and white means that JOBS WILL BE TAKEN FROM US!
It seems to be forgotten by many of you that Qantas is the "AUSTRALIAN AIRLINE" and the "SPIRIT OF AUSTRALIA" Won't be that if we have a whole lot of whinging poms working for them complaining that they don't earn as much as their Aussie counterparts and they're tired because their minimum rest is shorter than that of the Aussies.
I work for a regional over here & I will fight this to the death through the unions, as will many others. Not purely for the selfish fact that I want MY job that has been dangling in front of my nose for the past 2 years, but because I want to secure it for others in Australia that have the dream that I have had my entire life.
It's ok for you to sit back there in the UK and say you'll do it for less money and lesser conditions. I'm sure you can do a lot worse with some of the budgo airlines over there. If you don't like it there are a billion other budgo airlines you can get a seasonal contract with. You also have something called the EU (as VS77 pointed out). We don't have that luxury over here - have you noticed that we're about 24 hours travelling time away from you!???! We're a one and only country sitting over here with 2 major airlines. Not a whole lot of options if you want to work as an FA.
Work for your own airline and leave ours alone!
We want jobs kept in Australia. QF are doing it to save $$. Or maybe it's because if they make a better profit by saving those $$ Mr Dixon gets a whole lot more cash in his already big fat back pocket!! It's his own personal agenda!
You can only work for one company if you want to work longhaul out of Australia. And thats QF (that includes Australian cause you're an employee of the QF group!).
Unfortunately Floaty, I don't have the priviledge of having a UK passport and also living on 2800 a month with the cost of living over there is really not so appealling to me!
There is also the small fact that there are a good number of Australians on a "list" here for a job with the big Q. Remember we've been told that we're suitable to work for them & when positions are available then we should get a start date.
Funny that positions open up in AKL & BKK and now it seems London will be next. Most of us have been offered nothing. Yet some have been offered a measly 10 mth contract which won't be renewed as they're hoping to have the bloody london base opened by then. Which in black and white means that JOBS WILL BE TAKEN FROM US!
It seems to be forgotten by many of you that Qantas is the "AUSTRALIAN AIRLINE" and the "SPIRIT OF AUSTRALIA" Won't be that if we have a whole lot of whinging poms working for them complaining that they don't earn as much as their Aussie counterparts and they're tired because their minimum rest is shorter than that of the Aussies.
I work for a regional over here & I will fight this to the death through the unions, as will many others. Not purely for the selfish fact that I want MY job that has been dangling in front of my nose for the past 2 years, but because I want to secure it for others in Australia that have the dream that I have had my entire life.
It's ok for you to sit back there in the UK and say you'll do it for less money and lesser conditions. I'm sure you can do a lot worse with some of the budgo airlines over there. If you don't like it there are a billion other budgo airlines you can get a seasonal contract with. You also have something called the EU (as VS77 pointed out). We don't have that luxury over here - have you noticed that we're about 24 hours travelling time away from you!???! We're a one and only country sitting over here with 2 major airlines. Not a whole lot of options if you want to work as an FA.
Work for your own airline and leave ours alone!
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Official
Tues "Sydney Morning Herald" Latest News
Qantas to establish London base for flight staff
June 22, 2004 - 1:39PM
Qantas Airways Ltd today said it will establish a base for 400 international flight attendant in London from June 2005, saving $18 million annually.
"As a global airline with very significant offshore operations we cannot continue to source all our people and services in Australia alone," Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said.
"We must strive for an internationally competitive cost base against many competitors who, through government ownership and subsidies, do not operate to the same economic disciplines as Qantas."
He said the airline's existing Australia-based cabin crew would be given priority for the London positions, and that there would be no job losses as a result of the new base.
Qantas also said it would establish a Brisbane base in early 2005, where 250 international cabin crew jobs would be relocated.
"Regardless of the take-up by existing staff for positions in London, our current growth means we are in a position to utilise all our current personnel and to grow some," Mr Dixon said.
He said setting up the the London base would save Qantas $18 million a year through rostering efficiencies and reduced accommodation and allowance costs.
"These savings, and others we need to continue to push through the company, are essential if Qantas is to continue to grow and prosper," he said.
Qantas currently has more than 4,000 international flight attendants in bases in Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, Auckland and Bangkok, with 94 per cent of all employees sourced in Australia.
Mr Dixon flagged the decision to establish a London base a month ago, when he told the National Press Club the airline could be more efficient if it sent jobs offshore.
Later, an internal memo reportedly showed Mr Dixon planned to relocate 25 per cent of the airline's cabin crew - or about 840 staff - to London in order to cut hotel and meal costs.
Today Mr Dixon said the London base would be operated by a wholly owned UK subsidiary, and salary levels in London would compare "well" with those offered by other airlines with UK-based crew.
Flight attendants would be able to return to their positions in Australia after they completed two-to-three year contracts in London.
He said it was "difficult to estimate", but that Qantas expected "existing Australia-based flight attendants would fill the majority of the London jobs".
He believed the new Brisbane base would attract widespread support from existing crew, and said international services to and from Brisbane would grow considerably in coming years.
Qantas shares were two cents lower at $3.40.
AAP
=========================================
Qantas to establish London base for flight staff
June 22, 2004 - 1:39PM
Qantas Airways Ltd today said it will establish a base for 400 international flight attendant in London from June 2005, saving $18 million annually.
"As a global airline with very significant offshore operations we cannot continue to source all our people and services in Australia alone," Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said.
"We must strive for an internationally competitive cost base against many competitors who, through government ownership and subsidies, do not operate to the same economic disciplines as Qantas."
He said the airline's existing Australia-based cabin crew would be given priority for the London positions, and that there would be no job losses as a result of the new base.
Qantas also said it would establish a Brisbane base in early 2005, where 250 international cabin crew jobs would be relocated.
"Regardless of the take-up by existing staff for positions in London, our current growth means we are in a position to utilise all our current personnel and to grow some," Mr Dixon said.
He said setting up the the London base would save Qantas $18 million a year through rostering efficiencies and reduced accommodation and allowance costs.
"These savings, and others we need to continue to push through the company, are essential if Qantas is to continue to grow and prosper," he said.
Qantas currently has more than 4,000 international flight attendants in bases in Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, Auckland and Bangkok, with 94 per cent of all employees sourced in Australia.
Mr Dixon flagged the decision to establish a London base a month ago, when he told the National Press Club the airline could be more efficient if it sent jobs offshore.
Later, an internal memo reportedly showed Mr Dixon planned to relocate 25 per cent of the airline's cabin crew - or about 840 staff - to London in order to cut hotel and meal costs.
Today Mr Dixon said the London base would be operated by a wholly owned UK subsidiary, and salary levels in London would compare "well" with those offered by other airlines with UK-based crew.
Flight attendants would be able to return to their positions in Australia after they completed two-to-three year contracts in London.
He said it was "difficult to estimate", but that Qantas expected "existing Australia-based flight attendants would fill the majority of the London jobs".
He believed the new Brisbane base would attract widespread support from existing crew, and said international services to and from Brisbane would grow considerably in coming years.
Qantas shares were two cents lower at $3.40.
AAP
=========================================