QF Shortlisters
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: ???
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QF Shortlisters
Bad news I'm afraid.
Heard today that QF aren't employing for any perm positions for the next 4 - 5 years. All future recruitment will be done through MAM for Shorthaul casual and Adecco (?) for Longhaul contracts.
When the shortlist expires, at this stage they're not renewing.
What a bloody waste of time, effort and money even applying was.
Heard today that QF aren't employing for any perm positions for the next 4 - 5 years. All future recruitment will be done through MAM for Shorthaul casual and Adecco (?) for Longhaul contracts.
When the shortlist expires, at this stage they're not renewing.
What a bloody waste of time, effort and money even applying was.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cart Tart,
Im sorry to hear the news. You are not alone in being very disappointed.
Are you sure about casual/contract employment only for longhaul.
QF are in the market for more 744s, which will mean a requirement for LOTS more CC.
The adecco bases in BKK and AKL are I think at, or around, their historical max.
Any "drastic" increase in offshore numbers would breach the aggreement QF have with the FAAA to cap the numbers.
It seems that the startup of Jetstar will create surplus numbers of shorthaul crew and recently 150 transfered to Longhaul.
Maybe QF think they will get enough shorthaulers transfering across to fill the numbers required for the fleet increase. Who knows?
Although still 2.5 years away the A380 deliveries will also create a need for more CC. I would be very surprised if internal transfers will fill that need.
The airline industy worldwide is at be at the bottom of the cycle so unless QF intend to drastically change the way they employ CC and, invite the risk of industrial action I wouldn't be too pessimistic.
Having said all that. The recent "newspaper" articles portraying QF CC as spoilt and unreasonable brats smells VERY much of QF management sponsered propaganda.
Maybe they are looking for a fight?????????
Stupid if they are, given they are about to announce "massive" profits.
Keep your chin up.
How reliable was the info you were given?
Im sorry to hear the news. You are not alone in being very disappointed.
Are you sure about casual/contract employment only for longhaul.
QF are in the market for more 744s, which will mean a requirement for LOTS more CC.
The adecco bases in BKK and AKL are I think at, or around, their historical max.
Any "drastic" increase in offshore numbers would breach the aggreement QF have with the FAAA to cap the numbers.
It seems that the startup of Jetstar will create surplus numbers of shorthaul crew and recently 150 transfered to Longhaul.
Maybe QF think they will get enough shorthaulers transfering across to fill the numbers required for the fleet increase. Who knows?
Although still 2.5 years away the A380 deliveries will also create a need for more CC. I would be very surprised if internal transfers will fill that need.
The airline industy worldwide is at be at the bottom of the cycle so unless QF intend to drastically change the way they employ CC and, invite the risk of industrial action I wouldn't be too pessimistic.
Having said all that. The recent "newspaper" articles portraying QF CC as spoilt and unreasonable brats smells VERY much of QF management sponsered propaganda.
Maybe they are looking for a fight?????????
Stupid if they are, given they are about to announce "massive" profits.
Keep your chin up.
How reliable was the info you were given?
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe that's today's policy tomorrow maybe different, although I dont hold out much hope for the current shortlisters.
QF have had a policy in place to reduce the number of permanent staff against contract, part-time and casual for some time now and that is up for review again at the end of the financial year.
4-5 years sounds a bit drastic considering there are provisions in place to ensure the ratio between permanent and "others" doesnt exceed a certain %, therefore I dont think even QF HR could predict 4-5 years down the track just yet, however I am sure this is what QF would love (no permanent employment) I think it will be difficult to achieve just yet.
QF have had a policy in place to reduce the number of permanent staff against contract, part-time and casual for some time now and that is up for review again at the end of the financial year.
4-5 years sounds a bit drastic considering there are provisions in place to ensure the ratio between permanent and "others" doesnt exceed a certain %, therefore I dont think even QF HR could predict 4-5 years down the track just yet, however I am sure this is what QF would love (no permanent employment) I think it will be difficult to achieve just yet.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a bloody waste of time, effort and money even applying was.
Well, you could say from Qantas' view what a bloody waste of time, effort and money recruiting was !
When the people were interviewed, there was the expectation that there would be a need for additional crew. QF would not waste their time and money interviewing all those people if they didnt think there was a need to.
QF isnt doing this to you on purpose. And you cannot expect to be a kept on a shortlist indefinately .... your circumsatnces may change adversely during the space of a few years, and QF's employment criteria for crew may change ....
There is no point getting angry at QF .... it isnt QF's fault, nor is it yours.... its just the uncertainty of the industry. It is unfortunate that the industry has had two of the biggest down-turns during the past two years that it has ever seen. And like most companies faced with a destabalised industry, QF has obvioulsy changed their tactics to deal with it .... ie no permanent recruitment.
Us at QF are just as dissapointed to hear there isnt going to be any permanent employment ..... no permanent recruits means no movement in seniority, ie those stuck at the bottom remain there .... it isnt good for anyone.
This industry changes on a constant basis, there may be a need to recruit sooner, but it just isnt forseen at the moment.
My advice would be to forget about it, and worry about it when we advertise again. Chalk it up to experience, and be proud of yourself that you got as far as you did ......
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: ???
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what irritates me the most Q-T is that they've been employing casuals for shorthaul and adecco contractors for longhaul, while taking no one from the list. A select few have had a call asking them to joing MAM. MAM have even done an external recruitment drive. I didn't receive a phone call asking if I would go casual. I know the reason behind that too.
I don't think the lack of recruiting is entirely due to the downturn in the industry. It has a lot to do with Dixon's splendid idea of only employing casual and contract labour, therefore erroding pay and conditions that people in the industry have worked hard for. You will be affected by this just as much as I am.
I am already a flight attendant so I am luckier than many on the list that I am already doing what I love.
More needs to be done to keep jobs in Australia, and give people some sense of job security like it used to be.
QF is now making record profits. Staff took a wage freeze to help this happen. Now that it has happened, they're rewarding their loyal employees by replacing them with labour that are under worse conditions, expected to work longer hours for less money.
This will lead to unhappy staff, which will reflect on the product, then customers and ultimately their precious profits! Maybe then they'll realise that in order to make the profits they need employees that are happy with the company they work for!
I don't think the lack of recruiting is entirely due to the downturn in the industry. It has a lot to do with Dixon's splendid idea of only employing casual and contract labour, therefore erroding pay and conditions that people in the industry have worked hard for. You will be affected by this just as much as I am.
I am already a flight attendant so I am luckier than many on the list that I am already doing what I love.
More needs to be done to keep jobs in Australia, and give people some sense of job security like it used to be.
QF is now making record profits. Staff took a wage freeze to help this happen. Now that it has happened, they're rewarding their loyal employees by replacing them with labour that are under worse conditions, expected to work longer hours for less money.
This will lead to unhappy staff, which will reflect on the product, then customers and ultimately their precious profits! Maybe then they'll realise that in order to make the profits they need employees that are happy with the company they work for!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Townsville,Nth Queensland
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CT
Judging from todays "The Australian" there is no shortage
of starters on lower pay & conditions with 2255 having already applied
for CC at Jetstar:
Fri "The Australian"
Pilots and crew flock to Jetstar site
By Steve Creedy
February 06, 2004
INDUSTRY observers may have doubts about Qantas's low-cost offshoot Jetstar, but it seems more than 20,000 people have other ideas.
The airline's website has been inundated with applications from across the world since it set up in December as pilots, cabin crew and engineers clamour to get on board. The 20,000-plus applicants include 1100 pilots - 200 with Airbus A320 command experience - 2255 cabin crew and 1434 engineers.
Another 15,000 people want jobs in other roles, according to chief executive Alan Joyce.
Mr Joyce said the response was totally unexpected.
"It's a big number isn't it?" the executive said.
"I think we were particularly surprised by the number of pilots and, indeed, the number of cabin crew and engineers who applied for it - those skilled work forces. "We knew there were people that would be interested, but ... Australians have applied from some really high quality airlines around the world,
"So we're very, very pleased with the quality of the people as well as the number."
Jetstar executives now face the problem of sorting through the applications.
Jetstar takes off in May with about 600 workers - many are now Impulse employees.
The airline will initially use Impulse Boeing 717s but intends to bring in 23 Airbus A320s over the next two years.
Many operational jobs depend on aircraft deliveries.
"This year, by the time we get to August, we will have three additional A320s flying," Mr Joyce said. "With an A320 you need approximately four to five sets of pilots, so that's eight to 10 pilots per aircraft."
Mr Joyce said the strong response, particularly from workers on other airlines, showed that airline professionals believed the start-up was a sound proposition.
Jetstar will announce its fare and route structure later this month, after the Qantas half-year results on February 19.
Mr Joyce said everything was on track for the airline's first flight in May.
It was working with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to modify the Impulse air operators certificate to accept the new aircraft type. It also had agreements with ground handling, pilot and cabin crew unions and was hiring its own customer service staff in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne.
"It's all ready to go," he said. "It's just the commercial side: getting the website up and running and making sure we have the fare structure in place with the network.
"They're the next big items to get out of the way."
The Jetstar announcement came as the Qantas share price jumped yesterday in anticipation of a strong half-yearly result, despite the effects of the SARS crisis.
Macquarie Equities analysts Ian Myles and Paul Huxford are tipping an after-tax profit of $303 million, down 15 per cent on last year's first-half earnings of $353 million.
They said this would be "a great outcome" in view of SARS and a reduction in domestic market share.
Macquarie is maintaining its strong outperform rating on the stock with a $4 price target. Qantas shares closed yesterday at $3.54, up 5 cents.
===========================================
Judging from todays "The Australian" there is no shortage
of starters on lower pay & conditions with 2255 having already applied
for CC at Jetstar:
Fri "The Australian"
Pilots and crew flock to Jetstar site
By Steve Creedy
February 06, 2004
INDUSTRY observers may have doubts about Qantas's low-cost offshoot Jetstar, but it seems more than 20,000 people have other ideas.
The airline's website has been inundated with applications from across the world since it set up in December as pilots, cabin crew and engineers clamour to get on board. The 20,000-plus applicants include 1100 pilots - 200 with Airbus A320 command experience - 2255 cabin crew and 1434 engineers.
Another 15,000 people want jobs in other roles, according to chief executive Alan Joyce.
Mr Joyce said the response was totally unexpected.
"It's a big number isn't it?" the executive said.
"I think we were particularly surprised by the number of pilots and, indeed, the number of cabin crew and engineers who applied for it - those skilled work forces. "We knew there were people that would be interested, but ... Australians have applied from some really high quality airlines around the world,
"So we're very, very pleased with the quality of the people as well as the number."
Jetstar executives now face the problem of sorting through the applications.
Jetstar takes off in May with about 600 workers - many are now Impulse employees.
The airline will initially use Impulse Boeing 717s but intends to bring in 23 Airbus A320s over the next two years.
Many operational jobs depend on aircraft deliveries.
"This year, by the time we get to August, we will have three additional A320s flying," Mr Joyce said. "With an A320 you need approximately four to five sets of pilots, so that's eight to 10 pilots per aircraft."
Mr Joyce said the strong response, particularly from workers on other airlines, showed that airline professionals believed the start-up was a sound proposition.
Jetstar will announce its fare and route structure later this month, after the Qantas half-year results on February 19.
Mr Joyce said everything was on track for the airline's first flight in May.
It was working with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to modify the Impulse air operators certificate to accept the new aircraft type. It also had agreements with ground handling, pilot and cabin crew unions and was hiring its own customer service staff in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne.
"It's all ready to go," he said. "It's just the commercial side: getting the website up and running and making sure we have the fare structure in place with the network.
"They're the next big items to get out of the way."
The Jetstar announcement came as the Qantas share price jumped yesterday in anticipation of a strong half-yearly result, despite the effects of the SARS crisis.
Macquarie Equities analysts Ian Myles and Paul Huxford are tipping an after-tax profit of $303 million, down 15 per cent on last year's first-half earnings of $353 million.
They said this would be "a great outcome" in view of SARS and a reduction in domestic market share.
Macquarie is maintaining its strong outperform rating on the stock with a $4 price target. Qantas shares closed yesterday at $3.54, up 5 cents.
===========================================
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: ???
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Wirraway.
Read it this morning.
I can't say I blame so many people for applying. I know fellow FA's that have applied & are going to see what the pay/conditions are like before joining.
If I was desperate to be an FA then I would probably apply too. There are many many people out there who's dream it is to fly & are willing to do anything to realise it. I don't think it's their fault.
Companies have realised that there are people aching to do it and will do anything, so hey, lets offer them $hitty $$ and work them to the bone and see how long we can get out of them before they see the light! Cheaper to have them burn out after 3 years, then train someone else, than have 5(+) year FA's around who are on top $!
Read it this morning.
I can't say I blame so many people for applying. I know fellow FA's that have applied & are going to see what the pay/conditions are like before joining.
If I was desperate to be an FA then I would probably apply too. There are many many people out there who's dream it is to fly & are willing to do anything to realise it. I don't think it's their fault.
Companies have realised that there are people aching to do it and will do anything, so hey, lets offer them $hitty $$ and work them to the bone and see how long we can get out of them before they see the light! Cheaper to have them burn out after 3 years, then train someone else, than have 5(+) year FA's around who are on top $!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ---
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Everyone!
Just thought i'd leave a note to say i got a call from QF HR on Wednesday morning to say I have the job! I am over the moon and finally the waiting has paid off. It is a casual position through MAM, but hey, I am more than happy to take it as it suits my situation very well. There is ten of us to be Perth based with training to start on the first of March with 2 weeks in Melbourne for EP's.
Thanks
Oz
Just thought i'd leave a note to say i got a call from QF HR on Wednesday morning to say I have the job! I am over the moon and finally the waiting has paid off. It is a casual position through MAM, but hey, I am more than happy to take it as it suits my situation very well. There is ten of us to be Perth based with training to start on the first of March with 2 weeks in Melbourne for EP's.
Thanks
Oz
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Ozcabincrew
Congratulations to you!! Your long wait is now over - must be a relief. Good luck and all the best. At least you now have your foot in the QF door!!
Cart-Tart and others:
There is some information on the FAAA website "Casual Flight Attendants - The Facts". Might give some clues as to where QF is heading with recruitment. I'm not from QF so I'm not sure if it's applicable to this thread - worth a read anyway.
http://www.faaa.net/
Congratulations to you!! Your long wait is now over - must be a relief. Good luck and all the best. At least you now have your foot in the QF door!!
Cart-Tart and others:
There is some information on the FAAA website "Casual Flight Attendants - The Facts". Might give some clues as to where QF is heading with recruitment. I'm not from QF so I'm not sure if it's applicable to this thread - worth a read anyway.
http://www.faaa.net/
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In an airspace near you!
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congrats!
Hey Oz
Congratulations on your appointment! Great to see that it has worked out for a few shortlisters!
Maybe you could keep us posted on what happens during training like Eddy did with his BA posts.... At least we can live vicariously!
Congratulations on your appointment! Great to see that it has worked out for a few shortlisters!
Maybe you could keep us posted on what happens during training like Eddy did with his BA posts.... At least we can live vicariously!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ozcabincrew
Congratulations you must be sooo happy after such a long wait. I am very very surprised at the number of casuals being employed in Perth considering the size of the base and routes they fly, keeping my fingers crossed you get a decent amount of flying.
It just goes to show how quickly things change at QF. Before Xmas the Perth crew were advised that casuals would not be employed within the base and what do you know here it is February and the position has changed.
This is a good example to shortlisters of how QF HR's position on employment within QF can change quickly. Obviously no fault of HR but dont give up hope!!
Congratulations you must be sooo happy after such a long wait. I am very very surprised at the number of casuals being employed in Perth considering the size of the base and routes they fly, keeping my fingers crossed you get a decent amount of flying.
It just goes to show how quickly things change at QF. Before Xmas the Perth crew were advised that casuals would not be employed within the base and what do you know here it is February and the position has changed.
This is a good example to shortlisters of how QF HR's position on employment within QF can change quickly. Obviously no fault of HR but dont give up hope!!
QF SHORTLISTERS
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In an airspace near you!
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
