QF Low Cost Carrier
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QF Low Cost Carrier
Its been reported QF will annouce the LCC tomorrow.
What do you think this will mean to short haul crew and impulse crew if our flying and if the rumours are true for short haul our aircraft are taken away from us for the LCC.
What do you think this will mean to short haul crew and impulse crew if our flying and if the rumours are true for short haul our aircraft are taken away from us for the LCC.
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Hi Gallyhag
There is a thread running on D&G forum.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=105471
Question is will "Skimpy" transfer mainline 737s or buy new
ones. A few people as you will read think Impulse will be
finished, my gut feeling is "Skimpy" will operate seperate to
Impulse.
Cheers
Wirraway
There is a thread running on D&G forum.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=105471
Question is will "Skimpy" transfer mainline 737s or buy new
ones. A few people as you will read think Impulse will be
finished, my gut feeling is "Skimpy" will operate seperate to
Impulse.
Cheers
Wirraway
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My personal view is that it may be part of Impulse somehow. But I think it will be run separate to the current operation, which will remain for the time being.
By this I mean the 717 network stays mostly as is (secondary routes - 'The System of the Golden Jets'
).
Then you have these 737s flying major domestic routes both complementing mainline (ie. flying SYD-PER or SYD-MEL in addition to Cityflyer product) and on leisure routes on it's own (such as SYD-OOL or SYD-HTI). This would be similar to the Air Canada 'Tango' product and also its 'Zip' subsidiary.
As far as taking away SH flying... That is what it is designed to do. Unfortunately. If the SH way of doing things loses money on leisure and low yield routes the Group must replace it with a cheaper operation. Just like when Impulse took over HTI, HBA and OOL flying (though OOL went back to SH after AN collapsed due capacity). This is also the same as JetConnect taking over some Tasman flying. Nothing new is happening.
I do think that the flying lost by SH could be made up by increased regional international flying. Pending any agruements from FAAA - International.
How about some names guys???
I am thinking...
Fresh! by Qantas (tacky but I LOVE it!)
Go! by Qantas
Qantas Express
I think it should still include a small reference to Qantas as people will seek to fly it just 'cause it's 'Qantas'.
I am exhausted and not feeling creative but would love to see what you all think about some names.
By this I mean the 717 network stays mostly as is (secondary routes - 'The System of the Golden Jets'
). Then you have these 737s flying major domestic routes both complementing mainline (ie. flying SYD-PER or SYD-MEL in addition to Cityflyer product) and on leisure routes on it's own (such as SYD-OOL or SYD-HTI). This would be similar to the Air Canada 'Tango' product and also its 'Zip' subsidiary.
As far as taking away SH flying... That is what it is designed to do. Unfortunately. If the SH way of doing things loses money on leisure and low yield routes the Group must replace it with a cheaper operation. Just like when Impulse took over HTI, HBA and OOL flying (though OOL went back to SH after AN collapsed due capacity). This is also the same as JetConnect taking over some Tasman flying. Nothing new is happening.
I do think that the flying lost by SH could be made up by increased regional international flying. Pending any agruements from FAAA - International.
How about some names guys???
I am thinking...
Fresh! by Qantas (tacky but I LOVE it!)
Go! by Qantas
Qantas Express
I think it should still include a small reference to Qantas as people will seek to fly it just 'cause it's 'Qantas'.
I am exhausted and not feeling creative but would love to see what you all think about some names.
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ok .... have heard today.....
the new airline will be happening
the wage costs will be 'considerably' lower than VB, in all divisions.
It will not involve Impulse, but the fate of impulse 'may be' affected by the new carrier.
That was from a friend of mine in management at QF .... whether it is true, or not, who knows
the new airline will be happening
the wage costs will be 'considerably' lower than VB, in all divisions.
It will not involve Impulse, but the fate of impulse 'may be' affected by the new carrier.
That was from a friend of mine in management at QF .... whether it is true, or not, who knows
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Does anyone know, when the LCC actually starts, in regards to recruitment will they use current QF shortlisters or do a complete separate recruitment drive? Would positions be offered to MAM casuals first etc???
thanks!!!
thanks!!!
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I was wondering whether because it will be a subsidiary and not actualy run by QF if the shortlists actually mean anything here.
If it is totally seperate won't they have to employ outside of QF and advertise under their own brand name. I'm not starting rumours or saying I know anything I don't, I was just thinking when I was on the staffcv site that they would have to post another airline application as it won't actually be QF that we would be applying to. Similar to Australian Airlines recruitment.
Any thoughts?
If it is totally seperate won't they have to employ outside of QF and advertise under their own brand name. I'm not starting rumours or saying I know anything I don't, I was just thinking when I was on the staffcv site that they would have to post another airline application as it won't actually be QF that we would be applying to. Similar to Australian Airlines recruitment.
Any thoughts?
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The QF shortlisters are only on the shortlist for QF, not for AO, QFLink or any other airline QF may start up.
In otherwords when this new airline gets going, they may invite the QF shortlisters to apply, but they won't automatically get a position or any priority recruitment status.
Hope that helps!
SG
In otherwords when this new airline gets going, they may invite the QF shortlisters to apply, but they won't automatically get a position or any priority recruitment status.
Hope that helps!
SG
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New airline name " Skippy " , " Mccafferties Air/Greyhound Air " !
Rumour...I repeat "rumour" - QFLINK regional crew members on career progression to progress to new carrier rather than the mothership. These people eyed off as good team leaders on aircraft with the rest of the crew made up of MAM casuals hence recent MAM recruitment drive.
Rumour...I repeat "rumour" - QFLINK regional crew members on career progression to progress to new carrier rather than the mothership. These people eyed off as good team leaders on aircraft with the rest of the crew made up of MAM casuals hence recent MAM recruitment drive.
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I have heard rumours (there are a lot around at the moment on this issue) that the LCC will cause a large permanent surplus of crew in SH and we will be offered positions in LH, but that is just rumour who knows what will happen until it all comes out. If the 737 aircraft are taken from SH this could very well be a possibility.
Ditzy - all I am hearing is that Impulse will not be associated with the LCC which kind of makes sense as in a way isnt that what Impulse is at the moment. Why would QF spend so much money on the new LCC idea when they already have it.
However, you make some interesting points that I hadnt considered before. Maybe Impulse will be become the new SH in a way, if you know what I mean. The Impulse operating costs are lower than SH but maybe just that little bit to high for a LCC. This maybe a good thing for Impulse. Not so good for SH but this is all just thinking out loud I suppose.
QF Skywalker - Yes those rumours have been flying around as well, what do the regional crew think? Is that an option that would be considered?
Ditzy - all I am hearing is that Impulse will not be associated with the LCC which kind of makes sense as in a way isnt that what Impulse is at the moment. Why would QF spend so much money on the new LCC idea when they already have it.
However, you make some interesting points that I hadnt considered before. Maybe Impulse will be become the new SH in a way, if you know what I mean. The Impulse operating costs are lower than SH but maybe just that little bit to high for a LCC. This maybe a good thing for Impulse. Not so good for SH but this is all just thinking out loud I suppose.
QF Skywalker - Yes those rumours have been flying around as well, what do the regional crew think? Is that an option that would be considered?
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Qantas announces new low cost domestic airline
press release re: new low cost domestic airline avail at link at bottom of page. sorry didnt know how to paste the entire thing on here.
basically to sum it up:
* Low Cost Carrier has been approved and will be launched in May 2004
*will be established using the operation of impulse or using a new 'greenfields' company - decision to be made in 6 weeks
* will be operated as a seperate company in addition to Mainline, QFLINK + AO
* HQ Base will NOT BE IN SYDNEY
* will operate 737-800 or airbus A320 - discussions underway with leasing etc
* will operate min 23 a/c by mid 2005
* Mel advertising firm to do branding and advertising
basically its not giving us much more info than we already knew, or had assumed. interesting about it being based out of SYD and running 737s/A320s. I dont think however that our jobs are in the line of fire as much as we thought, if they are negotiating for new aircraft.. they will just recruit and train new crew as previously mentioned under their new company name.
looks like SH and Impulse crews arnt going anywhere soon!
link to asx company announcements (the actual media release):
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics...ek&ASXCode=QAN
basically to sum it up:
* Low Cost Carrier has been approved and will be launched in May 2004
*will be established using the operation of impulse or using a new 'greenfields' company - decision to be made in 6 weeks
* will be operated as a seperate company in addition to Mainline, QFLINK + AO
* HQ Base will NOT BE IN SYDNEY
* will operate 737-800 or airbus A320 - discussions underway with leasing etc
* will operate min 23 a/c by mid 2005
* Mel advertising firm to do branding and advertising
basically its not giving us much more info than we already knew, or had assumed. interesting about it being based out of SYD and running 737s/A320s. I dont think however that our jobs are in the line of fire as much as we thought, if they are negotiating for new aircraft.. they will just recruit and train new crew as previously mentioned under their new company name.
looks like SH and Impulse crews arnt going anywhere soon!
link to asx company announcements (the actual media release):
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics...ek&ASXCode=QAN
Last edited by ShesGreatintheGalley; 16th Oct 2003 at 16:00.
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I just hope the market is out there to support us all. Thats a lot of aircraft to fill.
I dont really understand the Impulse connection is that just the company as such? Not the existing Impulse operation with QFLink or are you guys still called Airconnex?
Anyways it looks like a heap more jobs on offer in the industry.
I dont really understand the Impulse connection is that just the company as such? Not the existing Impulse operation with QFLink or are you guys still called Airconnex?
Anyways it looks like a heap more jobs on offer in the industry.
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galleyhag - what do we think of it ? Well for me it means I have no choice now but to try and find work as a flight attendant elsewhere within the QF group or outside the qf group. Unless QF do provide some type of progression to the LCC for regional QFLINK crew then we really have no future. I love my job in qflink but just don't want to stay flying regional forever on terrible pay.
All we can do is embrace the LCC concept and hope we may get a position flying with them (progression hopefully) as we sure as hell will not be coming across to QF anymore. The final blow has been dealt to the QF career progression scheme with todays announcement.
I'd be happy to do the hard yards with the new QF LCC as we all know things will become low cost eventually,so we just have to keep our chins up, keep smiling and realise that this is the industry we work in and that it will keep constantly changing.
All we can do is embrace the LCC concept and hope we may get a position flying with them (progression hopefully) as we sure as hell will not be coming across to QF anymore. The final blow has been dealt to the QF career progression scheme with todays announcement.
I'd be happy to do the hard yards with the new QF LCC as we all know things will become low cost eventually,so we just have to keep our chins up, keep smiling and realise that this is the industry we work in and that it will keep constantly changing.
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the actual "impulse" mention dosent really have any affect on the current 717 operations, basically when QF bought Impulse they bought not only an airline complete with crew and planes, they also got a current air operating certificate (sorry dont know the actual name for it) to run an airline.
Basically, if you want to start an airline from scratch you need to apply for one of these things and it takes about min 9 months to get one.. (bit like a licence i think) all the QF mainline operate on one and AO either have their own or operate under QFs, Impulse now operate under QFs so the old impulse one can be used for a new airline and saves paying more money and waiting ages to get approval.
What i just typed prob dosent make any sense, mabye someone on here can elaborate further who actually knows about it (as i am just going from memory) but using the air operators certificate that came with impulse would mean that the new skimpy airline can begin a hell of a lot sooner... like may 2004 as announced (only 6 months time)
Basically, if you want to start an airline from scratch you need to apply for one of these things and it takes about min 9 months to get one.. (bit like a licence i think) all the QF mainline operate on one and AO either have their own or operate under QFs, Impulse now operate under QFs so the old impulse one can be used for a new airline and saves paying more money and waiting ages to get approval.
What i just typed prob dosent make any sense, mabye someone on here can elaborate further who actually knows about it (as i am just going from memory) but using the air operators certificate that came with impulse would mean that the new skimpy airline can begin a hell of a lot sooner... like may 2004 as announced (only 6 months time)
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IMHO, it's my understanding that it may be cheaper for them to go with Impulse. Why?
Because Impulse already have the infrastructure to support two airlines (they administer the QFLink operation for Airconnex AND Airlink - which is NJS)
Because setting everything up from scratch (including a whole new layer of management) could be cost prohibitive. When you have an airline that already operates as two separate airlines (Airconnex and NJS's Airlink), then a third would be easy to add. You already have the systems, the office space, etc. Recruit a few more staff to top up levels and away you go!
The new IT systems alone for Crewing cost anywhere in the region of US$250,000 and above! Bunging a whole new crew onto the current system would make much more sense (although I do profess to not being an expert in this area!)
Impulse Crew are cheaper than VB crew now. Of course, QF may want to go even cheaper (fingers crossed they don't go down that road and exploit the dreams of so many eager and talented future cabin crew!)
It would be quicker to cross-endorse our crew onto another aircraft type, rather than put through whole schools at the beginning (4 weeks vs. 2-3 days?).
But I could be wrong. We have seen stranger things happen before, and nothing would suprise me for now. At least we have it in black and white, with a final decision only 6 weeks away.
I sincerely hope that the kids in mainline don't suffer too much as a result of this decision. The whole situation looks positive - here's hoping it stays that way!
All this means is that the rumours are going to get WORSE than they were BEFORE this announcement! AAAARGH!
Because Impulse already have the infrastructure to support two airlines (they administer the QFLink operation for Airconnex AND Airlink - which is NJS)
Because setting everything up from scratch (including a whole new layer of management) could be cost prohibitive. When you have an airline that already operates as two separate airlines (Airconnex and NJS's Airlink), then a third would be easy to add. You already have the systems, the office space, etc. Recruit a few more staff to top up levels and away you go!
The new IT systems alone for Crewing cost anywhere in the region of US$250,000 and above! Bunging a whole new crew onto the current system would make much more sense (although I do profess to not being an expert in this area!)
Impulse Crew are cheaper than VB crew now. Of course, QF may want to go even cheaper (fingers crossed they don't go down that road and exploit the dreams of so many eager and talented future cabin crew!)
It would be quicker to cross-endorse our crew onto another aircraft type, rather than put through whole schools at the beginning (4 weeks vs. 2-3 days?).
But I could be wrong. We have seen stranger things happen before, and nothing would suprise me for now. At least we have it in black and white, with a final decision only 6 weeks away.
I sincerely hope that the kids in mainline don't suffer too much as a result of this decision. The whole situation looks positive - here's hoping it stays that way!
All this means is that the rumours are going to get WORSE than they were BEFORE this announcement! AAAARGH!
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mr seatback i missed flying with you the other day... i was not well! 
re: using airconnex/impulse... do you think they really would? They have already stated that their base would be somewhere other than syd (prob bris) and that they are considering running either A320s or 737s... surely they wouldnt cross train NJS and Impulse crews onto this new a/c which would mean training new crew on 2 or more a/c types, re training us on the new a/c AND still recruit enough new crew to operate 23 a/c in addition to the normal QFlink routes, , however diminished they may become.
When AO started.. did they recruit from scratch like a seperate company? it is my understanding that they did although i didnt really follow it at the time so dont know how it worked but i am thinking that this will work simmilar. i dont think we will lose our jobs or anything over this, We will still get to fly our superjet here and there (possibly some newer locations) but i think we will also lose a few ports in the process. These new crew will prob all be put under casual or PPT contracts or leased out from somewhere like MAM. i doubt QF will be hiring any crew of their own accord anymore, too costly!
i have a bad feeling we wont be going to tassie anymore toto!
re: using airconnex/impulse... do you think they really would? They have already stated that their base would be somewhere other than syd (prob bris) and that they are considering running either A320s or 737s... surely they wouldnt cross train NJS and Impulse crews onto this new a/c which would mean training new crew on 2 or more a/c types, re training us on the new a/c AND still recruit enough new crew to operate 23 a/c in addition to the normal QFlink routes, , however diminished they may become.
When AO started.. did they recruit from scratch like a seperate company? it is my understanding that they did although i didnt really follow it at the time so dont know how it worked but i am thinking that this will work simmilar. i dont think we will lose our jobs or anything over this, We will still get to fly our superjet here and there (possibly some newer locations) but i think we will also lose a few ports in the process. These new crew will prob all be put under casual or PPT contracts or leased out from somewhere like MAM. i doubt QF will be hiring any crew of their own accord anymore, too costly!
i have a bad feeling we wont be going to tassie anymore toto!
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My guess is that the Cabin crews will all be hired through MAM and off the street and that
the 717 crews will remain as is, as I understand it the 717s are not
under the Impulse AOC. It sounds like "Skimpy" will be a real no-frills
outfit as Geoff Dixon stated during the AGM in Adelaide, probably
along the along the lines of Ryan Air in Europe.
from this mornings SMH
If I were a wannabe F/A looking for the least risk of unemployment,
I would look at either 'Skimpy' or Virgin Blue for security,
as shown around the world LCCs have a high
rate of success.
Wirraway
the 717 crews will remain as is, as I understand it the 717s are not
under the Impulse AOC. It sounds like "Skimpy" will be a real no-frills
outfit as Geoff Dixon stated during the AGM in Adelaide, probably
along the along the lines of Ryan Air in Europe.
from this mornings SMH
ABN Amro analyst Bruce Low said it was feasible Qantas could retire its ageing - and inefficient - fleet of 21 B737-300s while its new budget airline built up its fleet of A320 or B737-800s. The aircraft could cost up to $1.5 billion, unless the airline chose to lease the aircraft.
I would look at either 'Skimpy' or Virgin Blue for security,
as shown around the world LCCs have a high
rate of success.
Wirraway
Last edited by Wirraway; 17th Oct 2003 at 01:31.