Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc.
Reload this Page >

Inrested in the other Corporate Pilot's input

Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. The place for discussion of issues related to corporate, Ag and GA aviation. If you're a professional pilot and don't fly for the airlines then try here.

Inrested in the other Corporate Pilot's input

Old 20th May 2017, 02:24
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Inrested in the other Corporate Pilot's input

I work for a Fortune 500 company. It is an excellent job, the pay is above industry standard 180K per year with matching retirement contributions, stock options and bonus pay - great medical/dental benefits. We have a slow period coming up where we have no flying for 2 weeks. I been asked to come in and polish the aircraft wings. I have no problem cleaning up the cabin and even doing a vacuum job and wipe down after a trip as we do not have a flight attendant. I have even sprayed the aircraft down with a hose to wash off de-ice fluid when we pull it in to our private hangar and refilled the LLAV from to time. Does the Corporate Pilot group think I an am being unreasonable when I feel it is demeaning to polish the wings, feedback anybody?
Ayden6013A is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 10:10
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Switzerland
Age: 53
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stating the obvious, "the problem" is not which tasks you may or may not do as a corporate pilot while keeping your dignity (and the bar is sometimes pretty damn low in our world..), but much more the relationship with your chief pilot, or whoever asked you to come in and do this job.

Operating an expensive jet, I don't see how employing cleaning personnel is going to break a flight department's budget... So is this not much more about somebody place above you in the pecking order thinking that you have it too cushy and wanting to make a point? If so, it's a leadership problem, and a good discussion about mutual expectations is what you are looking for.

My opinion: if I like my job, my boss, and my chief pilot, I'll come in on a slow day to do pretty much anything, and that includes (actual examples) getting condoms and sex-toys for the boss' dirty week-end, take the flight department's office staff through the airplane for a familiarization brief, scouring the shops for a portable milk-foamer for our galley, sourcing child-friendly sleeping masks, ... the list goes on and on.

Basic condition for me giving "a little extra effort": feeling appreciated and being taken seriously as an employee. If those conditions are not met, you got way bigger problems than spending a day glossing the leading edges....
FlyMD is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 10:11
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Marches
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ayden6013A View Post
I work for a Fortune 500 company. It is an excellent job, the pay is above industry standard 180K per year with matching retirement contributions, stock options and bonus pay - great medical/dental benefits. We have a slow period coming up where we have no flying for 2 weeks. I been asked to come in and polish the aircraft wings. I have no problem cleaning up the cabin and even doing a vacuum job and wipe down after a trip as we do not have a flight attendant. I have even sprayed the aircraft down with a hose to wash off de-ice fluid when we pull it in to our private hangar and refilled the LLAV from to time. Does the Corporate Pilot group think I an am being unreasonable when I feel it is demeaning to polish the wings, feedback anybody?
I,like any other,would get on with it, I aint overly special. If you fly a big big thing it would be fair to expect a colleague to foot the ladder as you climb up in your dungarees with your box of polishes and cloths. Enough said, or pin pulled ?
md1011 is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 10:23
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not a chance. If my company asked me to do that it wouldn't stop there, so no. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.
Hawker 800 is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 10:43
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Do not do it.

You post because you have valid doubts. If you comply with this request your resentment will penetrate your performance overall as pilot for this company.
So don't do it.
Be ready to move on.
rifruffian is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 14:49
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Polishing the wing ? Hmmm Fortune 500 Hmmm... What is the aircraft ? G550 or C550 ?

Insurance and know-how spring to mind... I'am sure that on your 180k you can find some to pay someone to do it, OR even better how and where do you get your aircraft cleaned when needed ?

Sounds another fake advice to me...
CL300 is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 15:33
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CYUL
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Two things that come to mind...

1- Are you qualified to polish the aircraft? Polishing an aircraft can lead to damages if left in the hands of people that are not properly qualified, especially if you scuff the leading edge of the wing or other sensitive areas.

2- What happens to you if by bad luck you fall off the aircraft and break a leg or die? Will you be covered?

In our flight department, even our engineers don't do any of the exterior cleaning or interior grooming when the aircraft is at home base. They hire specialists in aircraft cleaning especially for the polishing.
Jet Jockey A4 is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 15:57
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utopia
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Out of the bloody question, no way Jose. If it's a first job, on your way to build hours and land the next job - well, then nowhere is perfect and you do what you have to do. An owner/operator that can pay the numbers you are mentioning - it's ridiculous - get some pro's to do that shit.

This would be a good time to look forward and start looking around for a better job. Good luck with it and by the way good post with a frank question.
Klimax is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 16:52
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Off the map
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlyMD View Post

My opinion: if I like my job, my boss, and my chief pilot, I'll come in on a slow day to do pretty much anything, and that includes (actual examples) getting condoms and sex-toys for the boss' dirty week-end,
....
I guess I might be a prude or weirdo, but I'd probably refuse that. I rather polish a wing anytime than taking care of those "chores".
Then again I'm not a corporate driver, so this is just my opinion.
DirtyProp is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 19:16
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: England
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It is a difficult position. FlyMD said it well. Is whoever asked you to do this challenging you because he thinks you do not pull your weight?

I actually used to come in and do it of my accord because I had used cleaning companies and I never found one who did it to my required standards, so I did it myself. The problem came when the boss had a trip with clients coming up and he asked me at very short notice to make sure it was clean like I did it when I did not have because of other tasks, that was the tricky bit.

If you do do it, and I think you should if only to avoid the conflict and be ready to fight another day on your terms, make sure that you have sufficient safety equipment in place.

CRM or workplace relationships extend over a very wide sphere and are difficult to manage, avoid conflict where possible so that when you really need to make a stand you can do it from a position of strength. It may not be your boss who has issued the request, it may be someone else.

MM
Miles Magister is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 23:55
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ayden6013A

Thank-you for responses everyone your input is much appreciated. The Aircraft is a newer Falcon 900 series aircraft, The market cap of the company is 40B. What makes this awkward is there is potentially a down sizing of the department and we are just trying to do other everything we can to reduce or justify our existence by watching costs, expenses etc. Sometimes I think things get pushed to far. At least the Chief Pilot will help with the polish job(some integrity there), I have all done all kinds of things to make the department work, for 4-5 year period I would prepare all of the catering for the aircraft from out of my home base till we found a caterer that was acceptable. I have always done what it takes to make it the department work but limits have been reached.


They are not going to remember the great polish job I did on the aircraft when they terminate me. Thank-you everyone for your input.


Ayden6013A
Ayden6013A is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 11:14
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well at least its not a 100ft wingspan. Check the Dassault maintenance manual for guidance on polishing the slats.
If youve got to do it get them to buy some Nuvite - nothing else.
ramble on is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 06:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I understand the corporate world is different and it does seem above and beyond.


However if the chief pilot's doing it and there's a potential downsizing it may be
noticed if you don't show up.


I wouldn't be happy about it but probably better to swallow your pride in this case.


And a different perspective, I hope that termination is not a real possibility but
if it does happen at least you can say to yourself you did everything possible to
keep your job.
stilton is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 09:11
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's most certainly time to look for another job if that's what they expect of pilots. Leave the cleaning to the pros that are insured to do that job.
Hawker 800 is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 11:23
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: london, UK
Age: 55
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agree at all. I quite enjoy cleaning the plane - have polished edges, have been up on high lifts to polish and clean the tail and its not unusual to find small defects if you do it yourself now and again. Not saying you should if you don't want to and I don't think it should be part of your job but I quite like it. I have found hard seals that are worn, bonding straps that have separated which I would never have spotted on a normal walk round. Also tiny leaks in the hydraulics, a blocked vent on a slat, all sorts of thing. If you find it demeaning, no worries, don't do it, but personally I think its well worth doing.

cleaning bird shit off the tail in Lagos up a high lift was a bit of a low point but it made beer taste better that evening.
tommoutrie is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 16:05
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL450
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For me this is a little bit strange...
I have done all this and much more over the years. Did I think it was wrong? Absolutely! But it's a cut thoat business and if you refuse it will go down badly against you. They really should not expect this of pilots but when they do I fail to see you have much choice if you want to keep things sweet?
How about taking out the portapottie (that the boss saved up every flight for) and having to clean that in a corner of the apron? Getting splashed in the face everytime! Really unpleasant. But when you have a boss that refuses to pay handling agent fees what alternative is there? Blatantly refuse and you are shown the door. It CAN be a neccesary part of this business?
Kelly Hopper is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 16:40
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL450
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just to add...
Who does your cleaning at home?
For me I wash my car, my boat, my toilets, my floor, my windows.
I suspect most pilots do the same? But when it becomes part of your work life as opposed to your home life it becomes a problem? Why is that?
Kelly Hopper is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 18:34
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I would do it if I have to. I'm a "young" FO, so I do what I need to do to stay in a cockpit and build time. We never do it, but I woudn't find this degrading nor embarrassing. I like my boat to be shiny, same thing for "my" plane !

But I think the chief P only can complain. You can't, it would be wrongly noticed. So either you're happy with your job and stay here (and clean the plane ��) or you look for another company
Marlon Brando is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 22:29
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Village of Santo Poco
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think a $40B company that's willing to terminate you because you refused to polish the wings would have probably terminated you even if you were the best wing polisher ever, so might as well save the effort. In fact, if a $40B company needs its flight department to "justify" itself, I wager to say there are bigger issues happening that whether or not the wings get polished.

That being said, I'm an airline pilot with basically zero corporate experience, so...
Amadis of Gaul is offline  
Old 22nd May 2017, 23:03
  #20 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 13,977
Likes: 0
Received 27 Likes on 11 Posts
Would they ask the company doctor to clean the surgery windows if he had a bit of a slow day?

What happens if you slip off the ladder and bust your ankle?

cleaning bird shit off the tail in Lagos up a high lift was a bit of a low point but it made beer taste better that evening.
I know foreign beer can be a bit weak but I'd prefer a dash of blackcurrant in mine...
ShyTorque is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.