How did you get into business jet aviation?

[Bearcat F8F]

Hi all, just curious how you pilots ended up flying business jets? I mean what have you done prior that contributed to your first job as a business jet pilot? (King Airs and any similar business turboprops count also).

I'm guessing this is much less straight forward than the typical airline route. I know networking is a big part of this business but would like to hear personal accounts if possible.

Thanks

[First.officer]

Hi Bearcat,

Well, I started flying Privately back in 1998.....decided that a career change to flying commercially was what I really wanted to do around 2000, didn't have the funding at that time but decided it would be worthwhile getting some airline style experience so 2000/01 I managed to get a job as Cabin Crew with a major UK charter airline, did that for 3-4 yrs, funds became available and left end of 2004 to do fATPL studies, finished 2006, then worked as a Dispatcher at STN, then moved in 2007 to work as an Ops Controller and then late 2007 I managed to move right seat into one of the company Citations. Company went bust Oct. 2008 and moved with two aircraft to another operator, Voluntary Redundant around March last year and then freelanced right seat on a PC12, then September moved right seat Citation with a major UK operator.

F/o

[Flying Mechanic]

Bush pilot- twin pistons charter- cargo turbo prop- heavy jet F/O - corporate F/O...upgraded to capt few years ago.
Have quite a Few mates who went turbo props to corporate.
Corporate is all about contacts and luck, and the person you are. You need to be someone who gets on well with others and flexible.

[Bearcat F8F]

First.officer, sounds like you really earned it! Whats required to work as dispatch? I live in Glasgow. I was thinking of poking around Prestwick airport. Are you aware of any business jet operators around there? Not sure if there's anything useful around Glasgow airport.

Flying Mechanic, yes I'm aware that your personality is very important for this sort of work. I am keen on acquiring some contacts also. I am not really sure how to start climbing the ladder though when you start off with zero contacts.

I have a PPL now. Hoping to have the fATPL + MCC done before end of 2015. Very keen on getting out there and starting to meeting the right people. Could you suggest any decent ways I could do this to brake into the industry? Any advice appreciated! PMs welcome too. Thanks.

[FCS_TEST]

No one slept ? Oh my god, I have been fooled !:

[Flying Mechanic]

Once you get your license in your hand, my advice is always take a job doing anything in aviation, because then we will start to meet people, then you can network, and it takes start time. I got my cpl in 96.... First job was in 1999!

[Bearcat F8F]

Yeah of course! I will do anything that I can! Was just curious if I can do anything or find work somewhere which is non-flying to increase my chances... I mean work with a business or GA operator of some sort.

[redsnail]

Worked as a part time flight instructor and general dogs body in a small but busy flight school.
Headed "north" to the Kimberley in Australia and initially was a hangar rat for a turbine operator. Ended up with a bush pilot job flying piston singles and twins.
Then did Coastwatch for over 2 years in the Kimberley.

Headed to the east coast of Australia, got a job as a FO on Twin Otters and Bandierante's. Finally ended up with a job for a very short time in Sydney flying Dash 8's.

Left Australia. Converted the ATPL in 2001-2002.
Picked up a job as a night freight ops assistant which lead to an FO slot on the Shorts 360.

Now fly a Hawker for a well known Fractional company.

All the while, made contacts.... Very important.

[supermoix]

An ex D/O from an airline We used to work years ago hired me from the regional turboprops to join him in a new corporate aviation department that was forming, that happened four years after I left the regional company (in good terms).

You can say maintaining good professional relations with colleagues and a good network will get your first corporate jet job. After that, is a matter of maintaining an excellent reputation and work ethics to keep moving fast between jobs in case your current aviation department closes. Additional skills help (management, accounting, computer abilities, operational experience, even sales and customer service, to mention some).

Now in a position with management decision making, I don't hire just pilots, I prefer hiring good people who happens to have great flying abilities, in that order.

Hope it helps, and good luck.

[DownIn3Green]

Bearcat...all excellent replies and advice...just be aware of one thing...watch what you wish for...

I cannot begin to count the number of "wannabe's" who say "I'll do anything to fly", and then when offered a job (entry level or not) that is not to their liking after a week or two, take off to find "something better"...

My advice is if you say to a network contact that you "will do anything" that you should be prepared to carry through, or you may well find your carefully laid network null and void...as well as your reputation...

However, you seem to want to take the neccessary steps, so good luck to you...

Perseverance usually will make the difference...

[Bearcat F8F]

Thanks for your replies everyone. Very interesting that a person's personality here comes before any experience. All the job websites seem to advertise for Captain and F/O positions on business jets and all of them seem to require at lest 500 hours on type

DownIn3Green, yep, duly noted.

supermoix, perhaps you can have a chat with me when I get a hold of my fATPL then!

redsnail, got it, contacts contacts contacts! I'm keen to see where this all takes me in a few years time

[First.officer]

Hi again Bearcat,

As has been said previously, some excellent replies....networking and willingness to do what's necessary to achieve the end goal seem to be key attributes, coupled with a good dose of perseverance and a little luck and your on your way. I have to say I always find having a background in other areas of aviation useful to draw on sometimes, so whilst it may feel a little distant from your desire to fly by working in say Ops etc., personally I feel it's damn good experience to have in the bag!.

[Stick35]

Hi bearcat.

My experience. When i graduated i did some flightseeing flights on a Cessna. There was an operator at the airport where i did my training and i used to know someone inside. I did that on a voluntary basis in my freetime. It was a great experience. Especially with young kids who wanted to be pilots as well. After almost 3 years applying, i got my first job in the corporate on a Lear. Meanwhile after 5 years working i got jobless but i'm shortlisted in an airline company,so hoping to start end of this year. My advice to all wannabes is really to start small and work your way up. You see and learn a lot and, you can make a better picture for yourself what you actually want. ( corporate or airline or perhaps something else in aviation). I must say, it is indeed very hard to get in the corporate, harder than the airline. If you see eg Tag aviation they want people with only 50h on type. Just a nasty way to say :"we are not going to pay for the type.". Try to network and also MAINTAIN the contacts you have. If you see someone at the airport, invite him/her for a pint. Meanwhile stay current and study. If you are able to get a jeppesen vol 1: read!!!
Good luck you'll get there, you are still very young.

[Globalstream]

Be mindful about the quality of your employer. A tatty operator on you CV might raise questions about your values and skills and simply fast track you to the round file.

I look at the quality of experience when I've hired and research the reputation of an operation if it's unknown to me. I can think of three carriers whose former employees go straight in the bin. I've just been reading about Lion Air, so there might be a fourth!

[Bearcat F8F]

Globalstream, I thought Lion Air was part of the 3 until I read your reply to the end hehe! Let me guess... Ryanair, Air France maybe... since they had a lot of stall warners go off recently and... hmmm... some Russian airline?

Stick35, thanks for the advice, will try my best

First.officer, yeah I should do more research on the whole "ground ops." thing. I'm not even sure what jobs there are in that sort of area. Would love to fill the time with it though while I'm still saving up for the fATPL and MCC.

[SwedePilot]

Hi!

I just started flying bizjet and I finished flying school about 1,5 year ago. I basically tried my hardest to make a good impression while in school since my instructors was all part timers in the instructing and full/part time in either corporate, charter or ambulance and got som good recommendations and contacts through them. When I was finished I flew some towing and other cheap time building just to keep my chin up and have some fun while getting all the "No, we do not hire anyone at the moment", and suddenly I got a job as ground operations at a small business jet operator. Both thanks to my self and thanks to a former instructor that worked with the operator some years ago. He recommended me. This was 9 months ago. I scheduled planes and pilots and did all the catering orders, fuel orders, transport and the other stuff around the flights and again, tried really hard showing the boss that I really want to be in this business... And suddenly when I where about to schedule some flights and we just got some unexpected drop outs - there was not enough pilots for the flights!
One week later I was scheduled on my first type rating. 290 hrs total time....
tomorrow I'm doing my first flight with paying pax in a jet aircraft. EXCITING!

I think that I have had some really good luck here, but also - I've tried really hard, basically worked 24/7, 7 days a week with the operations and still doing that. I have also made my best trying to get to know all the pilots (very small operation), getting them to like me and wanting me in the team, pitching for me.

Good luck everyone! if you want it you can do it

[Bearcat F8F]

SwedePilot, congrats! Definitely sounds like you have earned it! Are they paying for your TR too?!

What sort of qualifications do you require for ground ops? Very intrigued!

And yeah believe me, I want it pretty bad, haha!

[Flying Mechanic]

Well done swedepilot, a good example of how to get into the right seat of jet, based on hard work and determination! Enjoy your first flight.

[SwedePilot]

Thanks!

Thank you guys!

Hmmm, for the Ops role you need to be able to do a lot at once. Bookings coming in, people wanting quotes, planes going for service, flights coming up, some flights needs permits, some needs handling to be requested from handling companies, you need to get prices from different handling companies, catering companies, fuel companies and so on for every flight. and then order the catering (some times there is some tricky ones, haha!) order the fuel, the handling, requested rental cars, hotels, helicopters and so on... Some flights comes up weeks early, some just hours before the departure. You need to hunt the pilots down schedule them and often position them to go where the plane is at the moment.... and this is just the beginning.. not to mention the flight planning, performance calculations. pretty sure I missed a lot...
Anyway, Its nice to be able to cope with stress. The Russians that always wait until the last moment to give you your permit number while the pax is in the plane and the commander sits with his finger on the start button and you on the phone is a good thing to try to see if your stress level is ok or not
And not to forget the organ/ambulance flights that pops up in the middle of the night demanding all these things to be done in like 30 minutes....

Its pretty fun, you learn A LOT at operations! I had no idea that it was so much going on behind the scenes. And that will help me when I'm out flying... well, now Im gonna be the one scheduling my own flights and booking my own positioning tickets but still, I understand what people that are involved with every flight and who to turn to when I need something on the line.

Yes my company pays the TR. We have a deal though. I stay on my Operations salary for one year. But thats far away from the amount of money the TR costs so for me that was fair enough. Since my friends and classmates pays themselves into Ryanair right at this moment I'm very happy at my position with my Operations paycheck The one year deal was to make me more attractive to my boss then just to pick a contract guy in these flights where we couldnt make it. At this point I cost just under the contract guy if we would use him at an average of once a week all year round.



dunno if this is interesting for you but read if you want, skip if you like

[SwedePilot]

haha!

Laughed hard about the post about the sleeping way of getting a job. Wonder if anyone have done it that way.....