Plane crashes on overrun in eastern Georgia, USA
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Plane crashes on overrun in eastern Georgia, USA
"The Hawker Beechcraft 390/Premier I crashed around 8:30 p.m. at the Thomson-McDuffie County Airport, about 30 miles west of Augusta, Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said in an email."
This was the flight's destination, so it seems safe to presume that the overrun occurred on landing.
5 Dead After Small Jet Crashes in Eastern GA - ABC News
METAR KHQU 210055Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 09/M04 A3012 RMK AO1 T00931044 =
This link has tail numbers and personal names. As far as I can tell, none of this information has been officially released:
Thomson jet crash kills 5; 2 survivors hospitalized | The Augusta Chronicle
This was the flight's destination, so it seems safe to presume that the overrun occurred on landing.
5 Dead After Small Jet Crashes in Eastern GA - ABC News
METAR KHQU 210055Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 09/M04 A3012 RMK AO1 T00931044 =
This link has tail numbers and personal names. As far as I can tell, none of this information has been officially released:
Thomson jet crash kills 5; 2 survivors hospitalized | The Augusta Chronicle
Last edited by fotoguzzi; 21st Feb 2013 at 06:44. Reason: explain that it was a runway crash; add last metar before the crash.
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&hl=en&ct=clnk
the above has info on the airfield.
ILS to runway 10. PAPI both ends of runway. 3 degree GS.
of interest, warning of deer on runway at night (in general).
about 5200feet long, 100 feet wide
runway 10 slopes UP.
unsure of landing direction of aircraft.
may have been pilot activated HIRL
the above has info on the airfield.
ILS to runway 10. PAPI both ends of runway. 3 degree GS.
of interest, warning of deer on runway at night (in general).
about 5200feet long, 100 feet wide
runway 10 slopes UP.
unsure of landing direction of aircraft.
may have been pilot activated HIRL
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[Later: early consensus seems to be that it IS a Runway 10 overrun that somehow missed the manufacturing plant and motored along until it encountered a forest.]
I am not entirely convinced that this is an overrun event:
"Mike Miller, reporting: 'Now, I want to give you an idea of where this plane actually crashed at. We are standing alongside Washington Road right now, and to my right, across the street, behind those buildings...that is where the airport is. Now, back over here to my left, is where the Milliken Plant is. You probably can't see it because it's dark, but a mile and half behind the plant, that's where deputies say the plane crashed at.'"
From civilian online mapping, Washington Road is at the threshold to Runway 28 and would be the first thing encountered if Runway 10 were overrun. Milliken Plant is the next thing encountered and could just be avoided in a Runway 10 overrun. Then go another mile and a half....
A mile and a half past the end of the runway seems to me a long way for a plane to hold together. It would be easier for me to believe that the plane hit short of the threshold to Runway 28.
DEVELOPING ON 6: New Information Released In Deadly McDuffie County Plane Crash Investigation | ABC 6 WJBF-TV
I am not entirely convinced that this is an overrun event:
"Mike Miller, reporting: 'Now, I want to give you an idea of where this plane actually crashed at. We are standing alongside Washington Road right now, and to my right, across the street, behind those buildings...that is where the airport is. Now, back over here to my left, is where the Milliken Plant is. You probably can't see it because it's dark, but a mile and half behind the plant, that's where deputies say the plane crashed at.'"
From civilian online mapping, Washington Road is at the threshold to Runway 28 and would be the first thing encountered if Runway 10 were overrun. Milliken Plant is the next thing encountered and could just be avoided in a Runway 10 overrun. Then go another mile and a half....
A mile and a half past the end of the runway seems to me a long way for a plane to hold together. It would be easier for me to believe that the plane hit short of the threshold to Runway 28.
DEVELOPING ON 6: New Information Released In Deadly McDuffie County Plane Crash Investigation | ABC 6 WJBF-TV
Last edited by fotoguzzi; 21st Feb 2013 at 13:22.
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you make some fine points!
having an ILS is a plus at night (10)
and not having an ILS allows for many visual deceptions, esp with a downslope on runway 28...even with a papi (assuming facts not in evidence)
clear and calm...wondering what calm wind runway was/is.
and without knowing more, I would think that coming from nashville tenn would set you up for runway 10 on a semi straight in.
oh well...be careful out there.
I sort of thought they saw some deer at the last second and tried to hop over them and came down really long.
having an ILS is a plus at night (10)
and not having an ILS allows for many visual deceptions, esp with a downslope on runway 28...even with a papi (assuming facts not in evidence)
clear and calm...wondering what calm wind runway was/is.
and without knowing more, I would think that coming from nashville tenn would set you up for runway 10 on a semi straight in.
oh well...be careful out there.
I sort of thought they saw some deer at the last second and tried to hop over them and came down really long.
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I saw a graphic of the course flown by the jet...it seems to me the guy was flying as direct as possible to the airport, entering a modified base leg perhaps too close to the field to get stablized on the approach.
Even one statement by another pilot that the pilot in question ''flew fast'' and some of us know what that means.
high, fast, out of position...maybe pushed it on to the runway and couldn't stop...maybe even tried to go around and stalled her in...ouch
Even one statement by another pilot that the pilot in question ''flew fast'' and some of us know what that means.
high, fast, out of position...maybe pushed it on to the runway and couldn't stop...maybe even tried to go around and stalled her in...ouch
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Hearing it was an aborted landing, aircraft struck a 60' utility pole and crashed into the trees and fragmented.
There was a NTSB Press meeting at 13:30 EST today - should be a press release soon.
There was a NTSB Press meeting at 13:30 EST today - should be a press release soon.
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Aircraft aborted landing runway 10 for unknown reasons, it's port wing struck near the top of a 60' concrete utility pole approx 1/4 mile from end of rw 10 - severing the left wing, the airplane continued for another 1/4 mile (1/2 mile from end of runway 10) impacting trees - crash site reported as 100 yards long completely destroying (fragmenting) the aircraft.
NTSB briefing; Member Robert Sumwalt briefs the media on Thomson, Ga. aviation accident, February 21, 2013. - YouTube
NTSB briefing; Member Robert Sumwalt briefs the media on Thomson, Ga. aviation accident, February 21, 2013. - YouTube
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I heard that also. ON an aborted landing (I read go around) they hit this pole and sheared off the left wing.
wow.
it almost always takes less time to do it right the first time...that means: stable apch = good safe landing.
wow.
it almost always takes less time to do it right the first time...that means: stable apch = good safe landing.
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So 1/4 mile from end of runway 10 the aircraft was flying at less than 60 feet agl!!!
Full 16 minute NTSB briefing from crash site; https://twitter.com/bizjet101/status/304716032256385025
Aircraft was equipped with a L3 FA2100 CVR.
Full 16 minute NTSB briefing from crash site; https://twitter.com/bizjet101/status/304716032256385025
Aircraft was equipped with a L3 FA2100 CVR.
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (from The Vein Guys, N777GV Owners)
Evans, Georgia, February 21, 2013 - Last night, February 20, 2013 at approximately 8:30 p.m. a plane carrying Vein Guys employees was involved in an accident at the Thomson-McDuffie County Airport after a routine trip returning from Nashville, Tennessee.
The company is still working through the details of the events that transpired leading up to the incident and as additional information becomes available they will release it to the public as appropriate.
As of today, confirmed information is that both pilots survived the crash and are being treated at MCG Hospital in Augusta. It is with deep sadness that we report that five members of our staff on the plane were killed in the accident, including our Chief Physician, Dr. Steven Roth. We send our deepest condolences to the families of the individuals who were lost.
“We are a family and our hearts weigh heavy today as we have lost members of our team- words cannot express our grief,” said Kelly Vann, Chief Operating Officer of the Vein Guys.
Out of respect for the families, the names of the deceased will not be released at this time.
Evans, Georgia, February 21, 2013 - Last night, February 20, 2013 at approximately 8:30 p.m. a plane carrying Vein Guys employees was involved in an accident at the Thomson-McDuffie County Airport after a routine trip returning from Nashville, Tennessee.
The company is still working through the details of the events that transpired leading up to the incident and as additional information becomes available they will release it to the public as appropriate.
As of today, confirmed information is that both pilots survived the crash and are being treated at MCG Hospital in Augusta. It is with deep sadness that we report that five members of our staff on the plane were killed in the accident, including our Chief Physician, Dr. Steven Roth. We send our deepest condolences to the families of the individuals who were lost.
“We are a family and our hearts weigh heavy today as we have lost members of our team- words cannot express our grief,” said Kelly Vann, Chief Operating Officer of the Vein Guys.
Out of respect for the families, the names of the deceased will not be released at this time.
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Thank you, robbried. Not much to add except that civilian mapping sites, the press conference, and a news photograph give me the impression that the pole struck was perfectly aligned with Runway 10 as was the area where the debris has concentrated. The plane traveled directly over the corner of the manufacturing plant but was obviously unable to clear the 60-foot tall pole that was just behind the plant. By passing to the right of the pole, there was little chance to avoid hitting the wires.
Last edited by fotoguzzi; 22nd Feb 2013 at 18:59. Reason: grammar
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OK, all of this is great talk...only one poster seems to ask the obvivous question...1/4 mile past the departure end of rwy 10, the guy was still only at 60'?
Either a catostrophic failure, weather related issue (being generous here) or simply a cocked up approach and "go-(almost) around...
Why can't people here wait for the facts and accept the fact that some accidents may be "pilot error"?
Either a catostrophic failure, weather related issue (being generous here) or simply a cocked up approach and "go-(almost) around...
Why can't people here wait for the facts and accept the fact that some accidents may be "pilot error"?
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Why can't people here wait for the facts and accept the fact that some accidents may be "pilot error"?
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I too wonder how they were at only 60' well beyond the end of the runway but 1/4 mile is 1300' which isn't really that far. If it was one of those jobs where the pilot tried to get airborne again because he thought he was running out of runway he could have been very low trying to get his speed up and cleaned up. These don't always turn out too well.
Off the top of my head I can think of an HS-125 in Minnesota and a Citation in Carslbad, CA within the past few years trying the same thing and both turning into disaster. I'm sure there are many others.
Off the top of my head I can think of an HS-125 in Minnesota and a Citation in Carslbad, CA within the past few years trying the same thing and both turning into disaster. I'm sure there are many others.
Small note, runway 10 has a 1% UP gradient, assuming the terrain continues rising, 60' above the terrain might be 75'-80' above DER elevation of 10 and perhaps 120' above the touchdown elevation of runway 10.
GF
GF
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On a positive note, the Captain Richard Trammell who was found strapped in his seat in the remains of the cockpit, has been upgraded from 'Critical' to 'Fair' and is receiving visitors and talking coherently.
The Co-pilot Jeremy Hayden was found walking 300 feet away from the wreckage, his condition has not been released but was said to be the lessor injured.
Also NTSB has 5 witnesses along with a grainy CCTV video, also runway was searched and nothing out of the ordinary was found.
The Co-pilot Jeremy Hayden was found walking 300 feet away from the wreckage, his condition has not been released but was said to be the lessor injured.
Also NTSB has 5 witnesses along with a grainy CCTV video, also runway was searched and nothing out of the ordinary was found.
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down in three green
for the longest time I tried to find a non pilot reason for accidents...I really mean it. Trying to blame many things other than pilot screwup.
Well, this one sort of looks like that. Just a screw up...maybe not a long enough final to be stable, maybe not awareness of the terrain features near by...maybe letting the copilot fly a tough approach when it should belong to the captain.
maybe night vision problems....get there itis.
yup...maybe its better to start with pilot error and then look around for other things.
and why wasn't the post/pole illuminated???
for the longest time I tried to find a non pilot reason for accidents...I really mean it. Trying to blame many things other than pilot screwup.
Well, this one sort of looks like that. Just a screw up...maybe not a long enough final to be stable, maybe not awareness of the terrain features near by...maybe letting the copilot fly a tough approach when it should belong to the captain.
maybe night vision problems....get there itis.
yup...maybe its better to start with pilot error and then look around for other things.
and why wasn't the post/pole illuminated???
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sevenstrokeroll: My civilian impression based on the initial press briefing and aerial and news photographs makes me understand that the wires had three orange balls on them. I'm not sure if a sixty-foot pole perfectly aligned with the runway should have a light or not.
Again my impression of the scene is pieced together and may be inaccurate.
Again my impression of the scene is pieced together and may be inaccurate.