Italians new tax..... SNAFU

[Dg800]

And why are commercial aircraft exempt? Whats the reasoning behind that?

That any commercial operator would just immediately fold up if forced to pay such insane amounts of money? And thus stop paying any tax at all, not to mention the loss of jobs and all that?

Our politicians may be stupid, but one thing they most definitely aren't is suicidal.

Ciao,

Dg800

[flydive1]

Out politicians may be stupid, but one thing they most definitely aren't is suicidal.

Not so sure about that, how many foreign registered business jets will now avoid Italy with a big loss of revenue(landing fees, handling, fuel, etc)?

[Dg800]

Not so sure about that, how many foreign registered business jets will now avoid Italy with a big loss of revenue(landing fees, handling, fuel, etc)?

Only the ones that aren't on an AOC.

Ciao,

Dg800

[what next]

...how many foreign registered business jets will now avoid Italy...

They will avoid overnight parking. But then, when were we last granted overnight parking permission on the most popular Italian destinations (Venice, Florence,...)? Even on my last visit to not-so-popular Verona (not long ago), we were only allowed 45 minutes on the ground! So not much is going to change.

[flydive1]

Only the ones that aren't on an AOC.

So, all the M registered(300+), probably most of the N, VP, etc.

What next,
yes, sometimes hard to get long time parking in Italy, but airport like LIML, LIRA and such will be hit.
I'm sure our aircraft will steer clear of Italy, unless really necessary(there are alternatives) and I know of at least 2 others that will do the same(one of them staying in Italy quite often)

[what next]

.. but airport like LIML, LIRA and such will be hit.

I don't worry too much about those because they are very clever when it comes to inventing their own fees and taxes. What about mandatory pushback in LIML even when parked in the first row...

I'm sure our aircraft will steer clear of Italy, unless really necessary(there are alternatives) and I know of at least 2 others that will do the same(one of them staying in Italy quite often)

We heard the same when Sardinia introduced their luxury tax a few years ago independently from the rest of the country and we heard the same when Samedan triplicated their landing and parking fees. And yet, try to find a parking spot at Olbia in summer or Samedan in the skiing season! It seems to make those places even more exclusive and attractive...

[His dudeness]

So you think the ldg fees at LSZS are comparable to the 7,55 per KG ?

As I said before we land in Italy maybe 4, maybe 6 times a year. So 104.000€/4 = 26000€...I guess I could land like 25-26 times in LSZS for that amount.

As for the Generator...since Clyde Cessna elected to save on bleed air starters I - unfortunately - need them both to start the bloody thing. Could use the APU Gen to get back home but even me is not stupid enough to take off SE.

I´m sure they would generate more and way easier if they just would put a levy on movements, like 10€ per movement (on top of the landing fee)

I´m interested in how they will check all these things and keep track of it, they could look at Austria on how to make it as complicated as possible (with that bloody passenger tax)

I just wonder who declared war on pvt aviation and why.

[The burgermeister]

Italian taxes

Where should transit pilots fly to,whilst SE bound from Uk? Avoid all EC countries as aviation fuel tax effectively doubles your fuel costs. Closely followed by Croatia, cashing in on its peripheral EU positioning. Utilise Serbia,Romania and Turkey wherever possible. More friendly and actually wanting your business.

[Shorrick Mk2]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

So 104.000€/4 = 26000€

Actually in most likelihood 104.000 EUR / 365 * (parking days), if (parking days) > 2.

[what next]

I just wonder who declared war on pvt aviation and why.

This is not war against private aviation, but a desperate move to get wealthy people to pay their taxes.

In Italy, the national sport (even more than soccer!) is "cheating the tax office". People who pay their taxes are considered to be plain stupid. Taxation on the income of entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors and suchlikes is almost impossible, because officially they have close no income. Therefore the only other option is to put taxes on the "outcome", like big houses, big cars, boats and the above mentioned airplanes. The reasoning is, that a dentist who declares an income of 15000 Euros per year (if he is stupid enough to declare that much!) can hardly afford a private touring aeroplane...

As I mentioned above, I had the luck to live in that beautiful country for twenty years. But because of that, I can't really think of any other way to make them pay.

[flydive1]

Yes, but this law will do nothing to accomplish that, at least regarding the aircraft.

As I said above, aircraft under AOC are exempt, and most or all the jets etc registered in Italy are under AOC, the one that are not, will be soon.

[what next]

A lesson for every country, really. If taxes get too high, people don't pay.

Maybe. But there are other examples like Scandinavia, where taxes are _really_ high (compared to Italy, Germany or the United States), yet people pay them without complaining or cheating. Because they feel that they get something in return.

Never underestimate the intelligence of the people paying your salary,

But part of that intelligence is to realise, that a stable and thriving business needs as stable and thriving environment to grow in. And in order to create that, the state needs money. Taxes. There are enough good employers who understand that, pay their taxes, keep their aircraft on the national register. A few more of those and "luxury tax on aircraft" will not be required.

[AfricanEagle]

Typical Italian mess as usual.

Tax has been levied on boats, fast cars and aeroplanes because considered "rich" people's toys to keep left wing politicians happy since the goverment has taxed pensions and increased taxes on workers.

To the best of my knowledge in Italy there are roughly 1200 "private" aircraft. 500-600 are 20+ year old Cessna/Pipers worth 30-40000 euro will that end up paying average 3000 euro per annum tax. The remaining jets and helicopters will all be put on AOC.

So most of the "rich" Italian owners who end up paying are average workers already taxed on their fixed salary that will just have to fly less to keep within budget. ( ) or quit all together.

The differently intelligent politician that added the amendment for non registered aircraft in Italy has just killed aviation tourism in Italy and probably created 8-10000 unemployed people.

[what next]

...has just killed aviation tourism in Italy and probably created 8-10000 unemployed people.

Please explain where that figure comes from! As far as I know, aviation tourism is mostly done in chartered flying club or flying school aeroplanes. Those are all excempt from the new tax.
And a 450 kg microlight or LSA pays 600 Euros in taxes. So what? These things cost in excess of 100.000 Euros now and people who can afford such figures can afford another 600 Euros.

[what next]

Anybody know if the tax will apply to microlight aircraft with ACI (Aero Club Italia) registration instead of an I-Number?

Article 14 of the mentioned law says that _all_ ACI aircraft are excempt from the tax!

[AfricanEagle]

Nobody yet knows if microlights are exempt

They should be. If they have to pay it will be 450 euros.

Not much for the owner of a top of the range aircraft, but can be expensive for many who fly on a budget with a 5000 euro ragwing micro.

what next, figures are my assumption based on foreign aircraft not flying to Italy because of the new tax. Handling companies not having jet traffic, refuellers, catering, and further down the ladder taxis, car rentals, hotels, restaurant.

The same for some agriturismi for private cessna/piper pilots on vacation, the drop in numbers can make a difference in breakeven.

Regarding Italians, some will reduce/quit flying (especially microlights, activity has already reduced in the past two years due to higher costs and general economic climate) meaning that little maintenance operators will disappear.

I just hope my figures are wrong.

[what next]

I just hope my figures are wrong.

Me too, of course. I remember last time such a tax was introduced (sometime in the nineties) one guy publicly set fire to his own aeroplane to protest against the regulation. All the other aircraft owners somehow continued flying as before...

[AfricanEagle]

what next, you live and fly in Germany. I've flown across and landed in Germany. Easy, simple, straight forward, no complications.

In Italy everything is ten times more difficult and complicated. We are use to it. We have devoloped a thick skin. And we have learnt how to survive and carry on flying. Any other pilot in the world coming to live in Italy would not last 3 months

[Dg800]

Actually in most likelihood 104.000 EUR / 365 * (parking days), if (parking days) > 2.

No way, the way the law is written now if you stay longer than 48h you pay for the whole year. There is currently no provision in the law for a prorated payment for aircraft as is instead the case for boats, that do get to pay a daily "docking fee" instead of an annual tax.
Article 14-bis was added at the last minute as someone became aware of the fact that most privately owned aircraft in Italy are not on the Italian registry. Its wider reaching consequences were obviously not taken into consideration, which is typical.

Ciao,

Dg800

[Dg800]

Article 14 of the mentioned law says that _all_ ACI aircraft are excempt from the tax!

All aircraft owned or leased by the AeCI or its local chapters are exempt! There is no exemption whatsoever for privately owned aircraft.