Billionaires and Occupy Wall St.
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I undersstand that what they want is mainly justice because of the increasing gap between extremely rich and normal workers.
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In Australia there is a book being released soon (or has just been) by a former Prime Minister, Paul Keating. Now Keating is one of those characters that polarises opinions in that you either like or hate but I do believe that he had some very unusual insights into politics around the world.
On the present economic situation he believes that the root of the US problems stems from the period from 1990 to 2008 when there was a great burst of productivity in the US but that none of it went to wages. This in turn forced people to turn to easy credit as they were unable to sustain themselves from salary and wages. That fed the feeding frenzy that ended with the GFC. He argues that successive administrations from Reagan to Bush (W) abandoned the middle-ground and destroyed the people's belief in prosperity.
Perhaps part of the OWS movement is a revolt against being left off the gravy train or a protest of "don't ignore us or we will have you on the tumbrels heading for the guillotine".
On the present economic situation he believes that the root of the US problems stems from the period from 1990 to 2008 when there was a great burst of productivity in the US but that none of it went to wages. This in turn forced people to turn to easy credit as they were unable to sustain themselves from salary and wages. That fed the feeding frenzy that ended with the GFC. He argues that successive administrations from Reagan to Bush (W) abandoned the middle-ground and destroyed the people's belief in prosperity.
Perhaps part of the OWS movement is a revolt against being left off the gravy train or a protest of "don't ignore us or we will have you on the tumbrels heading for the guillotine".
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Who determines what is Justice? is there some divine law that determines how much money you can make
I think her answer to: 'people donīt have bread to eat' was 'why donīt they eat cake then!' could also be from some of the Maddoffs etc of today.
Donīt get me wrong, I have nothing against rich people per se, but when it comes to millions of workers unable to make a living from full time jobs etc. just because of the maximising of profit, then I think we need to change something. I donīt need a Ferrari to be happy and compared to most people Iīm very well off. But if I look around me at ordinary workers in honest jobs getting poor whilst working, then I start to get nagging doubts about our system. The middle class is getting extinct almost everywhere, whilst the poor class gets bigger and bigger and real rich people get richer and richer.
Socialist, me? No, not really...
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The middle class is getting extinct almost everywhere, whilst the poor class gets bigger and bigger and real rich people get richer and richer.
True. That's what the numbers say.
Attacking the middle class, this is attacking the whole system. Exactly what's happening today.
We need to evolve, but in the good direction. Because the slave workers in China and their rich masters have given ideas to the western world those last past 10 years apparently...
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Politicians care about one thing and one thing only. themselves. anyone who thinks different are kidding themselves.
I personally think it's all about being an adult and being responsible with what you do in life.
I know loads of people that for some reason refuse to take responsibility for their own life and for their situation. and blame the government or others for their misfortune. some have educations some dont.
but common for them all is that if they stopped blaming everyone else and started to look at what can I do to improve my situation so I might get to live some of my dreams, they could.
but instead they are living on a system that gives them just enough to have a roof over their heads and feed them. all they do is complain about they dont get enough money from government. and I am thinking get a job. I truly believe that there is a job out there for everyone. it might not be in the country you live in now. but then you move. the world is so small these days that moving across continents isnt an impossible feat. I know I've done it twice.
some are born with money some aren't but I was brought up under the philosophy that if you want something. you bust your ass to get it.
you overcome, improvise and adapt.
people might read this and think oh he's loaded so what does he care. fact is I am better of than most of my friends and family but I worked my *** off to get where I am. and I am not rich or anything.
point is. stop expecting everyone else to pity you and dont expect someone to give you what you want. get actively involved in your own life.
( hope I dont come across as some idiot that thinks he has all the answers because I know I dont. I just refuse to sit back. life is never simple it takes great effort and sacrifice. )
I personally think it's all about being an adult and being responsible with what you do in life.
I know loads of people that for some reason refuse to take responsibility for their own life and for their situation. and blame the government or others for their misfortune. some have educations some dont.
but common for them all is that if they stopped blaming everyone else and started to look at what can I do to improve my situation so I might get to live some of my dreams, they could.
but instead they are living on a system that gives them just enough to have a roof over their heads and feed them. all they do is complain about they dont get enough money from government. and I am thinking get a job. I truly believe that there is a job out there for everyone. it might not be in the country you live in now. but then you move. the world is so small these days that moving across continents isnt an impossible feat. I know I've done it twice.
some are born with money some aren't but I was brought up under the philosophy that if you want something. you bust your ass to get it.
you overcome, improvise and adapt.
people might read this and think oh he's loaded so what does he care. fact is I am better of than most of my friends and family but I worked my *** off to get where I am. and I am not rich or anything.
point is. stop expecting everyone else to pity you and dont expect someone to give you what you want. get actively involved in your own life.
( hope I dont come across as some idiot that thinks he has all the answers because I know I dont. I just refuse to sit back. life is never simple it takes great effort and sacrifice. )
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ec155mech: some thruth in your post, even if courage for you means something different for somebody born in Somalia.
This is too easy to take its own life as a model for the whole world.
Anyway, not sure this is the point anyway.
Point being that the middle class is paying for everything and everybody: from the bank who did a mistake to the jobless. And how do we thanks this middle class? decreasing its salary to increase the investors revenue.
Everywhere in the world the richer pay less and less taxes. Everybody can see their lobbies are taking control of the governments. Meanwhile everywhere in the world the very poor need more help.
The middle class produce, pay taxes, buy, and the richer should have the benefit of everything. Beleiving a single man is worth millions or billions is bull****. It is breaking our system. The money has to come from somewhere, let's get real, the richer's money comes from the unbalance of our system.
Our system where it's muuuuuch more interesting to bet and speculate against countries, companies, human being than work honestly.
Our system where TV and advertizement ask everything from the middle class, even make then beleive they need some unecessary product, just to make few people richer.
The best idea we found: destroying the middle class to make everybody happy. NONSENSE.
This is too easy to take its own life as a model for the whole world.
Anyway, not sure this is the point anyway.
Point being that the middle class is paying for everything and everybody: from the bank who did a mistake to the jobless. And how do we thanks this middle class? decreasing its salary to increase the investors revenue.
Everywhere in the world the richer pay less and less taxes. Everybody can see their lobbies are taking control of the governments. Meanwhile everywhere in the world the very poor need more help.
The middle class produce, pay taxes, buy, and the richer should have the benefit of everything. Beleiving a single man is worth millions or billions is bull****. It is breaking our system. The money has to come from somewhere, let's get real, the richer's money comes from the unbalance of our system.
Our system where it's muuuuuch more interesting to bet and speculate against countries, companies, human being than work honestly.
Our system where TV and advertizement ask everything from the middle class, even make then beleive they need some unecessary product, just to make few people richer.
The best idea we found: destroying the middle class to make everybody happy. NONSENSE.
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Marcus is full of ****...guys that own G4s don't post here.
It's been my experience that most millionaires are pretty decent people...do they drive a hard bargain..sure...do they negotiate...sure...do they care about people? Many do..especially their employees who help make them money.
I can assure you that the reason some of these guys seemingly treat others badly is not out of some sense of royalty or privilige, but of a realization that they are smarter then most people, and that said...most people are idiots...a realization that I am quickly learning...idiots get in the way, idiots make life harder, idiots keep us from moving forward.
If your the pilot of some guy's plane and being treated badly, chances are, that guy thinks your an idiot.
It's been my experience that most millionaires are pretty decent people...do they drive a hard bargain..sure...do they negotiate...sure...do they care about people? Many do..especially their employees who help make them money.
I can assure you that the reason some of these guys seemingly treat others badly is not out of some sense of royalty or privilige, but of a realization that they are smarter then most people, and that said...most people are idiots...a realization that I am quickly learning...idiots get in the way, idiots make life harder, idiots keep us from moving forward.
If your the pilot of some guy's plane and being treated badly, chances are, that guy thinks your an idiot.
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Marcus is full of ****...guys that own G4s don't post here.
Mutt
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Marcus, please take no notice what so ever of the out burst by kanetoads. The post he made is typical of what to expect from him. He eventually gets banned and pops up under a new alias. BTW, he knows zilch about aviation.
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I wasn't particularly concerned, but thanks for your kind words. Perhaps I'm a bit different than other "millionaires" in that a bit more than 20 years ago, I was broke. And unemployed. My wife and I borrowed $5000 from relatives, started a business, worked 12 to 16 hour days for years to build the business. When we sold it in 2007 it had roughly 4000 employees, almost all of whom were salaried, not hourly. We paid above average wages, and provided excellent benefits. Our turnover was less than 1% per year. I did nothing to destroy the middle class but do agree that that is exactly what is happening out there in the real world.
Though my net worth is in the mid 9 figure range, I am NOT a "job creator". At most, our family employs about 12 people and that number is very unlikely to ever increase. We make no particular effort to increase our income, which comes entirely from dividends, interest and capital gains. We pay tax on that income and if somebody wants to tax us more than we're currently being taxed that's just dandy with me. Why? Because this country provides wonderful opportunities without which our success wouldn't have been possible. Payback time as far as I'm concerned.
Am I crazy enough to provide what my security guy calls "personally identifying information" on a public forum? No. Would I post the tail number of our aircraft here? No. My original visit here was born of curiosity about how others run their flight departments. Our left seater visits here as well, but I don't think I've ever seen him post anything. In any case, I do appreciate the information that has been provided to me.
Though my net worth is in the mid 9 figure range, I am NOT a "job creator". At most, our family employs about 12 people and that number is very unlikely to ever increase. We make no particular effort to increase our income, which comes entirely from dividends, interest and capital gains. We pay tax on that income and if somebody wants to tax us more than we're currently being taxed that's just dandy with me. Why? Because this country provides wonderful opportunities without which our success wouldn't have been possible. Payback time as far as I'm concerned.
Am I crazy enough to provide what my security guy calls "personally identifying information" on a public forum? No. Would I post the tail number of our aircraft here? No. My original visit here was born of curiosity about how others run their flight departments. Our left seater visits here as well, but I don't think I've ever seen him post anything. In any case, I do appreciate the information that has been provided to me.
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Let's imagine a world where everybody were paysans. Would it work? It could.
Now let's imagine a world where everybody were millionaires/billionaires.
Would it work? Impossible. We would have to take the money from workers, the ones with low salaries, but in this case they wouldn't exist.
Being millionaire/billionaire comes from unbalance, not:
-working 12/16 hours a day (a slave in China can do that, but not only them...) or
-being smart (many Nobel prize have a normal salary).
Now let's imagine a world where everybody were millionaires/billionaires.
Would it work? Impossible. We would have to take the money from workers, the ones with low salaries, but in this case they wouldn't exist.
Being millionaire/billionaire comes from unbalance, not:
-working 12/16 hours a day (a slave in China can do that, but not only them...) or
-being smart (many Nobel prize have a normal salary).
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KAG, my initial reaction to your post was that it provided an opportunity to educate, and my second reaction was: why bother?
If you believe that some nebulous, ill-defined "imbalance" is what made me rich, do feel free to continue believing that. If I were a logical fellow I'd have a hard time rationalizing where that imbalance came from, as we started from a point of being utterly broke, and ended reasonably well off.
If you would like to see your "imbalance" eliminated, it would be simple to do. Just determine the "productivity-per-employee" of the enterprise (a dollar figure) and then have your enterprise pay amount to each employee.
This would, of course mean that secretaries, janitors and data entry technicians would make exactly the same salary as the CFO, the engineers, technicians and IT geeks. But there wouldn't be any imbalance, at least as you spoke of it.
Additionally, if you want to eliminate imbalance, then you need to take the company's expenses, divide them by the number of employees, and deduct that figure from the payout calculated above. Not such a pretty picture.
The imbalance you spoke of (and which, admittedly, ended up making me wealthy) works like this: to stay in business, an enterprise MUST pay its employees less than the value of what they produce, because there are all manner of costs which must be covered. In most businesses in the modern era the differential is about 50% (or so I should believe from reading an annoying magazine called The Economist).
You want balance? You get to pay for it. And you get to take the same financial risks as your former "corporate masters". No risk, no reward. No pain, no gain.
The world isn't a perfect system, and I damn sure wasn't a perfect employer but I think we did better than most.
Have a nice day. I'm going flying (as a passenger).
If you believe that some nebulous, ill-defined "imbalance" is what made me rich, do feel free to continue believing that. If I were a logical fellow I'd have a hard time rationalizing where that imbalance came from, as we started from a point of being utterly broke, and ended reasonably well off.
If you would like to see your "imbalance" eliminated, it would be simple to do. Just determine the "productivity-per-employee" of the enterprise (a dollar figure) and then have your enterprise pay amount to each employee.
This would, of course mean that secretaries, janitors and data entry technicians would make exactly the same salary as the CFO, the engineers, technicians and IT geeks. But there wouldn't be any imbalance, at least as you spoke of it.
Additionally, if you want to eliminate imbalance, then you need to take the company's expenses, divide them by the number of employees, and deduct that figure from the payout calculated above. Not such a pretty picture.
The imbalance you spoke of (and which, admittedly, ended up making me wealthy) works like this: to stay in business, an enterprise MUST pay its employees less than the value of what they produce, because there are all manner of costs which must be covered. In most businesses in the modern era the differential is about 50% (or so I should believe from reading an annoying magazine called The Economist).
You want balance? You get to pay for it. And you get to take the same financial risks as your former "corporate masters". No risk, no reward. No pain, no gain.
The world isn't a perfect system, and I damn sure wasn't a perfect employer but I think we did better than most.
Have a nice day. I'm going flying (as a passenger).
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At least you on topic now 
I speak about the whole system. It's always harder if we speak about one particular case like yours, as my staments would make your career path something not valid. I don't want to make personel statments at that point to avoid that, because it would look more like a personal attack than a discussion on why richers are richers and the middle class gets poorer.
Have a nice flight and behave nicely with your employees
I speak about the whole system. It's always harder if we speak about one particular case like yours, as my staments would make your career path something not valid. I don't want to make personel statments at that point to avoid that, because it would look more like a personal attack than a discussion on why richers are richers and the middle class gets poorer.
Have a nice flight and behave nicely with your employees
