Who has ceased trading in the last 2 years?

[WiganWarrior]

@ G-SPOTs Lost:

Oooooohhhhhhhhhh - get you !!! In your shiny big new aeroplane (must be very comfortable for those long 30 minute sectors ?)............ a long way from flying that miserable, PSOB from Wigan in an ageing Bravo !! Hope you're well mate !

[vanHorck]

consolidation, just a copy paste to show how impressive it is...

Jet Options
Kudos
Transeuro
Markoss
Paul Crowthers Lot
Gregg Air
Manhatten
Triple Alpha
Bluestream
Jet Republic
BIZAIR (Berlin)
VHM (Essen)
Triple Alpha (Duesseldorf)
Comfort Air (Munich)
Jet Conection (Frankfurt)
Aéro Services Executive
Icejet
BlueLine
Bigair
Loveair
European Buisness Jets
Cabair (Helicopters)
DJT / Panther Aviation
Wondair
Air Partner
Interfly
Silverbird
Jetline
Propstar
Air Charter Hamburg

[No RYR for me]

consolidation, just a copy paste to show how impressive it is...

Agree specially when you think about the operators that are know the be on the brink because of shareholders without money, broken business models, managed aircraft being pulled, etc. There is one operator of whom 95% of their fleet is put up for sale by their various owners Only thing that keeps them alive is the fact that the complete aircraft sales market is even worse than the charter market...

[Phil Brockwell]

No RYR - I think it a FAIRLY safe assumption that if the market picks up for aircraft sales, it should also pick up for aircraft purchases, so there should be more aircraft looking for management, assuming that there is not a big geographic shift, i.e. all the sold aircraft are purchased in Russia / Middle East etc. We have an oversupply because if an operator goes belly up, there is no reduction in supply because their aircraft just turn up at another management company -

Many aircraft are "for sale" with no real need to sell except to fund an upgrade to a newer / bigger aircraft.

The interesting point to me is the level of losses that are being sustained by many of the existing operators, survival is in fact a factor of how much money you have to lose releative to how much you are losing.

PB

[G-SPOTs Lost]

@wiganwarrior

Thought you were somewhere eating smoked cheese wearing a spikey helmet!

Ever since you showed me up being as I didn't know what FMB's were Ive been practising, still couldn't figure out POSB though.....

Anyway I sussed it

clicky - when I was in the RAF and strolled through the red arrow's ops office by accident and have been dining out on it since and unimaginably employers believe me - clicky

Besides we get south of Jersey on occasion - been twice this year. Do miss me Bravo though!

Hope the family and pooch are well mate been busy in that area myself....

[Spunky Monkey]

I would suggest almost every aircraft is for sale and as Phil says for many operators, it is how big the owners pockets are and how much luck they have.

Both in terms of engine maintenance and pushing the limits.

[vanHorck]

There is a silver lining though.....

The more dead wood is cut out, the healthier the business will be post trimming.

Of course the disadvantage is the planes do not disappear (fast enough) and so new cowboys will enter the fray....

[No RYR for me]

Many aircraft are "for sale" with no real need to sell except to fund an upgrade to a newer / bigger aircraft.

Wish it was true.. my take is that most aircraft that are semi for sale have owners not willing to take the loss and hence keeps it. I have 3 off market aircraft for sale with owners who would happily dispose of it if the bookvalue loss wasn't so huge.. Guess they are afraid to tell the missus that their toy turned out to be a weee bit more expensive

The more dead wood is cut out, the healthier the business will be post trimming.

You have been reading REAL business books again vanH... Not Business Aviation Business books There is no proper business model that will make this market healthy unless you are a TAG aviation or have been there long enough to have seen a number of bust and boom cycles

Of course the disadvantage is the planes do not disappear (fast enough) and so new cowboys will enter the fray....

Here you answer what has always happened: aircraft don't leave quick enough and the next generation of bizjet companies will be started by people who know better than old b@stards like us. They will tell us what we do wrong, that we need to increase untilisation, sell direct and cut costs. Have I mentioned internet tools to further improve sales yet? Or coffemachines onboard that would change the world

[hawker750]

G-SPOTs
I knew exactly what you were trying to say. As you said perhaps there is an
intellectual plane problem. I was trying to support you.
As for my planes, I know they are of elderly design but boy are they reliable. In the last 60 days have we raced to the rescue of broken Lear 45's ,Challenger 604's and even a Gulfstream.The passengers did not seem to mind getting on a serviceable "older" aircraft.
I know there is a campaign by some operators of shiney new aircraft to rubbish older aircarft as dangerous and unreliable but that is simply not the case. Some brokers even make a point of pointing out the age of the aircraft.
I am going to start a campaign that all quotes to clients must also show the reliability record of the aircraft they may be flying in. So lets start a register. I suggest the last 300 sectors as a yardstick but I am open to suggestions for other criteria to be used.
I will start by volunteering information on our Hawker 800.. It is 100%. Please can we have figures for other aircraft please.

[learjet50]

Hawker 750

I Agree with you and I yhink I have finally figured out who u are after years of trying to figure it out

I agree with you the more mature the product the more reliable it is

Wine // Cheese // Cars// Women (Cant beat a well matured F/A)

Hope you all OK

Gerry X NEA

[merlinxx]

Lear50

Why did it take you so long to suss that ?

He not the situ ?

[bizjetsurprise]

Another company failure in the biz aviation field:

Air Touring (the German end failed first, followed later by the UK company)

[G-SPOTs Lost]

H750 - please dont take my comments as anything other than a gentle ribbing and p1sstake, I understand your reasoning regarding dispatch rate but you're on a highway to nowhere. The first question the client/broker will always ask is what age is the aircraft as it eludes to being safer and also gives them an idea regarding the interior.

You know as well as I, the client is not interested in MEL's and dispatch rate.

Did you ever think that you may have originally quoted for the job you ended up rescuing?

I understand the hawker is a very endearing aircraft no arguement there...

[hawker750]

suitcaseman
It is 100%
Unfortunately a meaningless suggestion as some operators are happy to carry defects whilst others are not!

Of course we carry defects, the only criteria is whether the defect(s) is allowable under the MEL. It is wonderful news to hear that some perators and pilots will not fly an aircraft as per the MEL, it just means more work for us.

It has been a bit quiet on the dispatch reliability register. Criteria: last 300 sectors:
For us:
Hawker 800: 100%
Hawker 700 99%

Let's hear from the Lear45 operators next please

[Trim Stab]

Jet Options
Kudos
Transeuro
Markoss
Paul Crowthers Lot
Gregg Air
Manhatten
Triple Alpha
Bluestream
Jet Republic
BIZAIR (Berlin)
VHM (Essen)
Triple Alpha (Duesseldorf)
Comfort Air (Munich)
Jet Conection (Frankfurt)
Aéro Services Executive
Icejet
BlueLine
Bigair
Loveair
European Buisness Jets
Cabair (Helicopters)
DJT / Panther Aviation
Wondair
Air Partner
Interfly
Silverbird
Jetline
Propstar
Air Charter Hamburg

DJT / Panther Aviation are still trading.

[Learjet-Copi]

Companys from Switzerland

Hello

Below are some companies from Switzerland who ceased operation:


Speedwings
Swiss Eagle
Yourjet
Swiss Private Aviation

[FL480]

Speedwings still operating under their Austrian AOC

[FLEXJET]

There is a trend to give-up Swiss AOCs and to replace them by EU countries-based AOCs.
A strong Swiss Franc and cabotage issues (both having the same cause, i.e. our "financial crisis") are the main reasons.