Smoking on Bizjets
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This is a very simple question to answer.
If the owner of the aircraft wants to smoke in his/her aircraft, he/she can.
If the pilot/s or cabin attendant/s wish not to work in that environment, find a different position with another company/owner.
It's that easy.
As no one is forced to work in an environment they do not care for.
If you don't like it, leave or refuse the job.
If the owner of the aircraft wants to smoke in his/her aircraft, he/she can.
If the pilot/s or cabin attendant/s wish not to work in that environment, find a different position with another company/owner.
It's that easy.
As no one is forced to work in an environment they do not care for.
If you don't like it, leave or refuse the job.
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Smoking On UK A/C
I had reason to contact the IPA for advice on this matter whilst working for a UK AOC holder (now no longer operating) as I was not happy operating smoking flights. This is an extract from the IPA's reply to my query..
''Having been on to CAA Flight Ops Policy.
The definitive answer is unequivocal.
It is illegal to smoke in a confined work space as per current anti smoking legislation.''
See the below link,
Health Act 2006
The above link details the Health Act 2006.
The operator I was with operated a strict no smoking Policy. However they paid total lip service to this and charged a €2000 cleaning charge to the clients. The crew were not asked to volenteer for smoking flights.
I left, company went bust, poetic justice. Recently joined another company based FAB, they do not have a policy regarding smoking. Asked this question to the FOD of a Manchester based operater recently, again they have no policy. HR departments wake up please!
Good luck Phil, I wish more operaters followed your lead/stance.
KK
''Having been on to CAA Flight Ops Policy.
The definitive answer is unequivocal.
It is illegal to smoke in a confined work space as per current anti smoking legislation.''
See the below link,
Health Act 2006
The above link details the Health Act 2006.
The operator I was with operated a strict no smoking Policy. However they paid total lip service to this and charged a €2000 cleaning charge to the clients. The crew were not asked to volenteer for smoking flights.
I left, company went bust, poetic justice. Recently joined another company based FAB, they do not have a policy regarding smoking. Asked this question to the FOD of a Manchester based operater recently, again they have no policy. HR departments wake up please!
Good luck Phil, I wish more operaters followed your lead/stance.
KK
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Con-pilot,
Don't be daft. You cannot fire / not hire people because they don't want to work in a workplace full of smoke, not in the UK anyway.
Phil
Don't be daft. You cannot fire / not hire people because they don't want to work in a workplace full of smoke, not in the UK anyway.
Phil
If you apply for a job, you know before hand that the owner is a smoker and does smoke in his aircraft, would you accept the job and then demand that the owner not smoke in his own aircraft?
If so, do you feel that this is fair?
And just how are you going to force someone to hire you? Can people force employment in the UK, in other words, can you force someone to hire you? If so, that's pretty draconian.
Like I posted, if you do not like being around smoke, don't take the job. It is that simple. Fly for someone else.
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I ALWAYS THINK, IF YOUR'RE GOING TO SMOKE ON A PLANE, YOU SHOULD AT LEAST HAVE THE COURTESY TO OPEN A WINDOW
Oh, and it is a bit rude to type in all capital letters.
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In Canada it is against the CARS to smoke on an aircraft, no matter who owns it. I did not allow smoking on any of my aircraft and if anything it helped fill our booking sheet. Have since sold the company and now fly just one customer who is a smoker but never smokes on the aircraft.
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OutsideCAS - "I", not "i" - ah c'mom, you asked for that.... ;-)
My take is that a UK-registered aircraft operating public transport are workplaces and thus are subject to DoH legislation on smoking in workplaces, I.e. No smoking.
I would guess at a foreign registered (M for instance) aircraft operated by a UK company with UK contracted crew having the same problem.
VP-B etc with non-EU contracted crew would probably not be subject to it.
Personally, it stinks, I defend your right and all that, but it stinks. If I were paying £3500 an hour for a jet I would not want it to smell of Ambi-Pur, just normal air...
My take is that a UK-registered aircraft operating public transport are workplaces and thus are subject to DoH legislation on smoking in workplaces, I.e. No smoking.
I would guess at a foreign registered (M for instance) aircraft operated by a UK company with UK contracted crew having the same problem.
VP-B etc with non-EU contracted crew would probably not be subject to it.
Personally, it stinks, I defend your right and all that, but it stinks. If I were paying £3500 an hour for a jet I would not want it to smell of Ambi-Pur, just normal air...
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My take is that a UK-registered aircraft operating public transport are workplaces and thus are subject to DoH legislation on smoking in workplaces, I.e. No smoking.
In other words, if one employees a house keeper, can one still smoke in their own home while the house keeper is present. Also, what if said house keeper is of the full time live in variety?
Not trying to be cute, just curious.
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In other words, if one employees a house keeper, can one still smoke in their own home while the house keeper is present. Also, what if said house keeper is of the full time live in variety?
If a plumber comes into YOUR home, it becomes HIS place of work, hence you cant smoke while he is there
We are crazy in Europe, but i thought that you knew that
Mutt
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We are crazy in Europe, but i thought that you knew that
Glad we still have some personal freedom over here, so far.
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con-pilot - -
The "european" mentality is just as confusing to me. I, too, feel that a "man's castle is his home". But, that is NOT so in european countries such as the UK. In european countries a man's home belongs to any squatter/traveller/foreigner that can move in and change YOUR locks while you are out walking your dog. FACT! Regards employment in european countries - yes, you must hire people if they say they want a job with your company; that new "employee" then has the right to TELL you the terms and conditions that you MUST follow to please/appease them. You are NOT allowed to make ANY decision as the employer without FIRST asking for the approval of that/those employees. And, further, once you have hired that/those employees - THAY HAVE A JOB FOR LIFE! ! If you doubt what I am saying just read the now more than a year long "BA vs BASSA" thread in "Cabin Crew"! The BASSA people will gladly set you straight regards a proper european outlook on life. We here in the Colonies are simply "old fashioned" and "past our use-by date". And YES, those "modern" europeans can have my GUNS, all they have to do is pry my cold, dead fingers from them!!!
ps - watch out for those hose-heads up north, don't let them cross the border south-bound . . .
The "european" mentality is just as confusing to me. I, too, feel that a "man's castle is his home". But, that is NOT so in european countries such as the UK. In european countries a man's home belongs to any squatter/traveller/foreigner that can move in and change YOUR locks while you are out walking your dog. FACT! Regards employment in european countries - yes, you must hire people if they say they want a job with your company; that new "employee" then has the right to TELL you the terms and conditions that you MUST follow to please/appease them. You are NOT allowed to make ANY decision as the employer without FIRST asking for the approval of that/those employees. And, further, once you have hired that/those employees - THAY HAVE A JOB FOR LIFE! ! If you doubt what I am saying just read the now more than a year long "BA vs BASSA" thread in "Cabin Crew"! The BASSA people will gladly set you straight regards a proper european outlook on life. We here in the Colonies are simply "old fashioned" and "past our use-by date". And YES, those "modern" europeans can have my GUNS, all they have to do is pry my cold, dead fingers from them!!!
ps - watch out for those hose-heads up north, don't let them cross the border south-bound . . .
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Europe mad ?
Nope just following the namby-pamby no smoking Californians
Though I ignored it whilst working there
Now given up, but heck, you get on a bus, train, airline all no smoking, so charter (AOC hire & reward) bizjet the same
Though I ignored it whilst working there Now given up, but heck, you get on a bus, train, airline all no smoking, so charter (AOC hire & reward) bizjet the same
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On a visit to San Diego a few years back, found myself in a bar where the proprietor found it necassary to advise me that it was a smoking bar. What! I exclaimed, thats illegal, yes he said but I make more money this way and just pay the fines, anyone that don't like it don't come here and all are free to leave, this bar was full to capacity with smokers and non smokers alike. Recently, just before the total ban in the UK, I would go to the pub with my friends, mostly non smokers, when I asked why we were in the smoking section the reply was usualy, well this is where everyone is and its more fun to be together. Of course, all this is totally irrelevant to the original post but I just felt like commenting anyway, just as I feel like pointing out that as a Englishman, I am not a European.
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It is mad, there's no doubt about it.
When the legislation was brought in a self-employed plumber in Gloucestershire was fined for smoking in his van even though he wasn't actually working at the time, but they decided he was smoking in his workplace.
When the legislation was brought in a self-employed plumber in Gloucestershire was fined for smoking in his van even though he wasn't actually working at the time, but they decided he was smoking in his workplace.
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Phil
The consultation document states that the Government felt that the provisions in the ANO 2005 were adequate as no UK airline and virtually no other operators, allowed smoking on-board anyway, so there was no need to extend the legislation to aircraft.
Incidentally the first paragraphs of the above referenced document explicitly rule-out domestic premises, so the comment earlier about plumbers and private dwellings has no basis in fact.
The consultation document states that the Government felt that the provisions in the ANO 2005 were adequate as no UK airline and virtually no other operators, allowed smoking on-board anyway, so there was no need to extend the legislation to aircraft.
Incidentally the first paragraphs of the above referenced document explicitly rule-out domestic premises, so the comment earlier about plumbers and private dwellings has no basis in fact.
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Wrongstuff & Phil
Read the Health Act 2006, Ships are exempt, Aircraft are amongst vessels that are not exempt. Err, and what about a bit of old fashioned common sense? BTW Phil, who is your flight ops inspector, surley he can give you a few pointers?
kitekruncher, aircraft are exempt. Ref: Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007, Part 3, Sec 11, Para 6 (a):
(6) This regulation applies to all vehicles other than—
(a)aircraft; or.... (etc.)
The Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007
There is nothing to stop you imposing a unilateral ban, however, as was done for most of the Palace of Westmister, which is also (what a surprise) exempt.
(6) This regulation applies to all vehicles other than—
(a)aircraft; or.... (etc.)
The Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007
There is nothing to stop you imposing a unilateral ban, however, as was done for most of the Palace of Westmister, which is also (what a surprise) exempt.