NJE calling back pilots?
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I will remind all who are reading these posts that Skyshare, (which is a popularly supported Aircrew Association), has been created recently with the intention to carry out democratic elections of an Executive. As with all new creations this Association, (now projected Union), has to start with a group of dedicated people before elections can take place.
The deviousness behind the NetJets managment organised and funded so called "outreach" program is that
1) it has been created as part of a deliberate Union busting policy
2) repeated enterprise wide threats have been made at the most senior level stating that the creation of a Union would compromise the future plans for this company. This can been seen as an attempt to frighten Aircrew away from joining Skyshare. In this context these threats are possibly in breach of UK employement law
3) only 7 aircrew nominees have been presented for 6 places so the votes will be virtually meaningless due to lack of choice: -we are stuck with these non-elected people for 2 years
4) management, (who control all aspects of the nominee campaign and most aspects of the "election": - promotion, organisation and access to election result details), refuse to allow Aircrew to know how many people voted thus ensuring total opacity. The fact is if the truth were known then it would be clear that "outreach" nominees DO NOT HAVE A MANDATE.
NetJets Aircrew already know that we will end up with 6 out of the 7 who presented themselves: the "election", (although organised by a reputable UK organisation), has been manipulated into being a opaque non election of mainly management pilots who are sure NOT to defend Aircrew.
At Netjets thus we will find ourselves with the very last people Aircrew would ever want to see representing them being considered by management as "aircrew reps". As you can all clearly see this is a setup.
I call the nominees Mr. Smith in order to convey the profoundly negative role that they are playing in our lives without our permission or mandate. The term comes from Matix 1 and designates the computer generated plain clothed police clones responsible for maintaining the illusion: - this is precisely the role that I feel that these people are playing. It is not meant as a personal slight so much as a descriptive of the role that they are, (wittingly or unwittingly), taking on.
I ask all Aircrew who feel as I do not to share any concerns about our terms and conditions with these people when they become "outreach reps". We have an Association, soon a Union and they will organise truely democratic elections that will attract a great number of voters for candidates who have worked hard, produced results, showing courage and ability.
The deviousness behind the NetJets managment organised and funded so called "outreach" program is that
1) it has been created as part of a deliberate Union busting policy
2) repeated enterprise wide threats have been made at the most senior level stating that the creation of a Union would compromise the future plans for this company. This can been seen as an attempt to frighten Aircrew away from joining Skyshare. In this context these threats are possibly in breach of UK employement law
3) only 7 aircrew nominees have been presented for 6 places so the votes will be virtually meaningless due to lack of choice: -we are stuck with these non-elected people for 2 years
4) management, (who control all aspects of the nominee campaign and most aspects of the "election": - promotion, organisation and access to election result details), refuse to allow Aircrew to know how many people voted thus ensuring total opacity. The fact is if the truth were known then it would be clear that "outreach" nominees DO NOT HAVE A MANDATE.
NetJets Aircrew already know that we will end up with 6 out of the 7 who presented themselves: the "election", (although organised by a reputable UK organisation), has been manipulated into being a opaque non election of mainly management pilots who are sure NOT to defend Aircrew.
At Netjets thus we will find ourselves with the very last people Aircrew would ever want to see representing them being considered by management as "aircrew reps". As you can all clearly see this is a setup.
I call the nominees Mr. Smith in order to convey the profoundly negative role that they are playing in our lives without our permission or mandate. The term comes from Matix 1 and designates the computer generated plain clothed police clones responsible for maintaining the illusion: - this is precisely the role that I feel that these people are playing. It is not meant as a personal slight so much as a descriptive of the role that they are, (wittingly or unwittingly), taking on.
I ask all Aircrew who feel as I do not to share any concerns about our terms and conditions with these people when they become "outreach reps". We have an Association, soon a Union and they will organise truely democratic elections that will attract a great number of voters for candidates who have worked hard, produced results, showing courage and ability.
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@dryyoureyes, spot on. Couldn't agree more with you. I'm trying to find a balanced view myself in this mess. Not easy.
My two cents; Outreach is a joke, SkyShare is playing a game of chicken (who blinks first!). So I'll be on the fence watching the carnage.
Nice bedtime reading: Sokol Threatens to Shut Down NetJets | Alice Schroeder: The Official Website
My two cents; Outreach is a joke, SkyShare is playing a game of chicken (who blinks first!). So I'll be on the fence watching the carnage.
Nice bedtime reading: Sokol Threatens to Shut Down NetJets | Alice Schroeder: The Official Website
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I don't know, do they?
I never said they did, please show me where I said that was the case.
All I ever said was I could easier understand why those who had been in the company for less than 3 years might be sceptical, so perhaps you should relax a bit.
I never said they did, please show me where I said that was the case.
All I ever said was I could easier understand why those who had been in the company for less than 3 years might be sceptical, so perhaps you should relax a bit.
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South Coast,
Let me put your mind at rest, i am perfectly relaxed. I was
asking a question hence the question mark at the end. How can you possibly
suggest i need to relax or be in a position to judge my state of mind when i only posted 2 sentances is confusing.
You are embarrasing yourself, and may i respectfully suggest it isnt me who needs to calm down. No agenda, just wanted to see what your view of the pilot community in general was!
Let me put your mind at rest, i am perfectly relaxed. I was
asking a question hence the question mark at the end. How can you possibly
suggest i need to relax or be in a position to judge my state of mind when i only posted 2 sentances is confusing.
You are embarrasing yourself, and may i respectfully suggest it isnt me who needs to calm down. No agenda, just wanted to see what your view of the pilot community in general was!
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@ Northern Boy
Hi SG, maybe the world is greener as an applicant for OReach reps??
There a good jobs around on the G`s
Good Luck
And stop it here, its public! And we should work on internal probs somewhere but not here!
Thanks SG for understanding
There a good jobs around on the G`s
Good Luck
And stop it here, its public! And we should work on internal probs somewhere but not here!
Thanks SG for understanding
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from ****happens:-
"3) only 7 aircrew nominees have been presented for 6 places so the votes will be virtually meaningless due to lack of choice: -we are stuck with these non-elected people for 2 years"
Not aimed at ****happens, only quoting him, but why didn't SEA put up their own nominees, sanctioned by the Board? With such numbers in the association, surely it would have been possible to have all 6 Outreach crew members from SEA? Then, if Outreach goes they way SEA thinks it will, all 6 can resign stating the lack of company support for their own forum.
"3) only 7 aircrew nominees have been presented for 6 places so the votes will be virtually meaningless due to lack of choice: -we are stuck with these non-elected people for 2 years"
Not aimed at ****happens, only quoting him, but why didn't SEA put up their own nominees, sanctioned by the Board? With such numbers in the association, surely it would have been possible to have all 6 Outreach crew members from SEA? Then, if Outreach goes they way SEA thinks it will, all 6 can resign stating the lack of company support for their own forum.
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South Coast,
Are we married? I'm sure i've heard Mrs Hankers say that!
I have to say someone has wound you up to top note. You think i'm having a pop without saying it? If i was going to have a "pop" it would be
straight to the point, i was just asking what you thought.
How long have you been with NJE South Coast?
Are we married? I'm sure i've heard Mrs Hankers say that!
I have to say someone has wound you up to top note. You think i'm having a pop without saying it? If i was going to have a "pop" it would be
straight to the point, i was just asking what you thought.
How long have you been with NJE South Coast?
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That is correct Hollingworth, (I hope that answers your question Mike).
I am not part of the SEA Executive so I do not know the inside details, however I have followed the general discussion. The United States NetJets Union has also been involved in giving us their feedback of over 20 years experience in dealing with NetJets and they were adamant about NOT getting involved in a Union busting exercise: their reasons were clear, -the "outreach" is NOT designed for any other purpose than destroying Skyshare and "outreach" will WITHER AWAY as soon as Skyshare disappears. The statement that "outreach" was created for all NetJets employees and not to destroy Skyshare is untrue: - look at the timing! "Outreach" was part of the package brought in with the new managment: - they knew that their cutbacks would inevitably lead to a Union formation as a Union was already naissant when they arrived.
Incorrect statements made by a nominee tonight
I would like to counter some incorrect implications made by a nominee and sent to all NetJets Aircrew earlier this evening in the management "outreach" nominee blurb distributed by blackberry: it was stated that Skyshare has not made it's position clear with regard to jobshare. This is untrue, it is a misrepresentation of SEA made on a forum that reaches ALL Aircrew, (& unavailable to Skyshare). Skyshare have already a Job Sharer on their executive and have made it patently clear that they will act to have our contracts upheld, (including Job Sharers). Making an untrue statement just before the final day for an election is popular with unscrupulous polititions who know how to manipulate the media; - in this case it is patently unfair as there is no right to repond for Skyshare. I will remind readers that when Skyshare went to Lisbon to meet managment as an Association mandated by the majority of Aircrew their only request was FOR OUR CONTRACTS TO BE HONORED!
Further falacious implicationsare that Skyshare is for Senior Aircrew, (all 670 of us?). Skyshare is dependant on Unity and that means representing all of NetJets Aircrew including our newcomers. I will remind our Junior Colleagues that we have also been in their position and we have already seen paycuts worse than those subjected to the latest wave of newcomers, (example from 2002: - 35% decrease in salary in breach of contract, no jobshare year off and no ring-fencing), yes we did go through tough times too and WE REMEMBER THEM. Skyshare have the benifit of many Aircrew with past experience of NetJets management's consistant behaviour and we are going to need all the help that we can get to empower ourselves! Aircrew will get no real benifit from "outreach" (it will be a temporary paint job accompanied by plenty of propaganda). With a Union we will have to earn what we get but if we stick together we will obtain real and lasting contractually binding results FOR ALL OF US.
Finally: yes Skyshare is fragile and a handfull of people nominating themselves as "ambassadors" for "outreach" do tremendous damage. Nominees are management's catalyst for translating the tremendous financial might and counter insurgency anti-Union propaganda into the illusion of a friendly election of good boy consultation. Intruth aircrew "outreach ambassadors" are a castrated management run consultation illusion of no use to anyone but their management manipulators.
I am not part of the SEA Executive so I do not know the inside details, however I have followed the general discussion. The United States NetJets Union has also been involved in giving us their feedback of over 20 years experience in dealing with NetJets and they were adamant about NOT getting involved in a Union busting exercise: their reasons were clear, -the "outreach" is NOT designed for any other purpose than destroying Skyshare and "outreach" will WITHER AWAY as soon as Skyshare disappears. The statement that "outreach" was created for all NetJets employees and not to destroy Skyshare is untrue: - look at the timing! "Outreach" was part of the package brought in with the new managment: - they knew that their cutbacks would inevitably lead to a Union formation as a Union was already naissant when they arrived.
Incorrect statements made by a nominee tonight
I would like to counter some incorrect implications made by a nominee and sent to all NetJets Aircrew earlier this evening in the management "outreach" nominee blurb distributed by blackberry: it was stated that Skyshare has not made it's position clear with regard to jobshare. This is untrue, it is a misrepresentation of SEA made on a forum that reaches ALL Aircrew, (& unavailable to Skyshare). Skyshare have already a Job Sharer on their executive and have made it patently clear that they will act to have our contracts upheld, (including Job Sharers). Making an untrue statement just before the final day for an election is popular with unscrupulous polititions who know how to manipulate the media; - in this case it is patently unfair as there is no right to repond for Skyshare. I will remind readers that when Skyshare went to Lisbon to meet managment as an Association mandated by the majority of Aircrew their only request was FOR OUR CONTRACTS TO BE HONORED!
Further falacious implicationsare that Skyshare is for Senior Aircrew, (all 670 of us?). Skyshare is dependant on Unity and that means representing all of NetJets Aircrew including our newcomers. I will remind our Junior Colleagues that we have also been in their position and we have already seen paycuts worse than those subjected to the latest wave of newcomers, (example from 2002: - 35% decrease in salary in breach of contract, no jobshare year off and no ring-fencing), yes we did go through tough times too and WE REMEMBER THEM. Skyshare have the benifit of many Aircrew with past experience of NetJets management's consistant behaviour and we are going to need all the help that we can get to empower ourselves! Aircrew will get no real benifit from "outreach" (it will be a temporary paint job accompanied by plenty of propaganda). With a Union we will have to earn what we get but if we stick together we will obtain real and lasting contractually binding results FOR ALL OF US.
Finally: yes Skyshare is fragile and a handfull of people nominating themselves as "ambassadors" for "outreach" do tremendous damage. Nominees are management's catalyst for translating the tremendous financial might and counter insurgency anti-Union propaganda into the illusion of a friendly election of good boy consultation. Intruth aircrew "outreach ambassadors" are a castrated management run consultation illusion of no use to anyone but their management manipulators.
Last edited by shithappens; 2nd Sep 2010 at 07:19. Reason: spelling
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Dear Colleagues pls stop posting here!
it will damage our biz, and others will use this for their own fortune.
be smart, be quiet!
Time will show, but no more damage is needed!
Stay within a good Company, and be a pro!
Do u think we can change something here????
PLS lets close the topic, for US ... NJE!
For ALL of us!
Just my 7.5 cents
be smart, be quiet!
Time will show, but no more damage is needed!
Stay within a good Company, and be a pro!
Do u think we can change something here????
PLS lets close the topic, for US ... NJE!
For ALL of us!
Just my 7.5 cents
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Wise comment from Waldi
Thank you Waldi.
There is a fine balance to be found between allowing ourselves to be subjected to unanswered repeated false claims that are aimed at damaging Skyshare during this critical time and exposing NetJets in public, (even if the posts relate the sad truth about employees relations here).
On a final note, an anecdote:
When the Teamsters, (the original NetJets USA Union), was set up, the then CEO and Founding President
1) set up an..."employee outreach program" ;-) ...using managment pilots...it failed because Aircrew, (warned by the Teamsters), ignored it.
2) sent messages out to all of the employees stating that the creation of the Teamster Union would cause management to "review their future plans" and that ceeding to their demands of a pay increase would bankrupt the company, (does this sound familiar?).
Well that was many years back and the US Co-Pilots could finally stop claiming food tickets from the USA social security, (yes it is true), and NetJets miraculously found the money to pay an honest wage to their Pilots. The Company went on to make record profits in the following years.
I pledge to keep my forthcoming debates back on our own private forums as long as "outreach" nominees/panel do likewise. I will not allow unfounded critism of Skyshare here to go unanswered and will be back if I feel the need.
There is a fine balance to be found between allowing ourselves to be subjected to unanswered repeated false claims that are aimed at damaging Skyshare during this critical time and exposing NetJets in public, (even if the posts relate the sad truth about employees relations here).
On a final note, an anecdote:
When the Teamsters, (the original NetJets USA Union), was set up, the then CEO and Founding President
1) set up an..."employee outreach program" ;-) ...using managment pilots...it failed because Aircrew, (warned by the Teamsters), ignored it.
2) sent messages out to all of the employees stating that the creation of the Teamster Union would cause management to "review their future plans" and that ceeding to their demands of a pay increase would bankrupt the company, (does this sound familiar?).
Well that was many years back and the US Co-Pilots could finally stop claiming food tickets from the USA social security, (yes it is true), and NetJets miraculously found the money to pay an honest wage to their Pilots. The Company went on to make record profits in the following years.
I pledge to keep my forthcoming debates back on our own private forums as long as "outreach" nominees/panel do likewise. I will not allow unfounded critism of Skyshare here to go unanswered and will be back if I feel the need.
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Skyshare have already a Job Sharer on their executive and have made it patently clear that they will act to have our contracts upheld, (including Job Sharers).
If this position had been made generally known from the outset (not just on a restricted website to which nominees have no access) then a good deal of heat and light could have been avoided.
I am sure that those on voluntary options who are not SEA members will be happy to know this.
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NB :If that is actually the case then I am genuinely delighted to hear it.
If this position had been made generally known from the outset (not just on a restricted website to which nominees have no access) then a good deal of heat and light could have been avoided.
I am sure that those on voluntary options who are not SEA members will be happy to know this.
If this position had been made generally known from the outset (not just on a restricted website to which nominees have no access) then a good deal of heat and light could have been avoided.
I am sure that those on voluntary options who are not SEA members will be happy to know this.
I am just asking myself : Would he have the gutts, since you cite SEA in your last pledge, at least it should be accurate. ;-)
add-on : Something i did not notice; but SEA is accepting the LTLOA cadets as well, they can express themselves as well as vote, not bad uhhh ???
Just waiting from the next management communication, that of course they do not forget the Cadets, and to confirm that everything was done to keep them informed about everything...
Last edited by CL300; 3rd Sep 2010 at 13:39.
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All gone very quiet on this thread. How is the Outreach forum working out - isn't the first meeting due soon? Anyone received any canvassing/agenda points from your, sorry, I mean our reps?
Sheeeeeeeeeeee
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WALDI, come on !!!
If nobody is writing, that is just because there is nothing to write !!!! as expected !!!
Now , if you think that a couple of threads on pprune will defeat Netjets propaganda, you are in a world too teletubbies like for me :-)
The only thing that NetJets was and is being afraid of is bad publicity to the owners, since there is a strong chance that no owners are reading these threads, there is no risk.
The owners got their Website, with their own issues, ( not only Netjets owners, but also Flexjet, Citation Shares, Flight options, etc..); their concerns is not about our conditions, that is for sure !!
Outrage is communicating, very well, that was their first mission, they have access to the magic : _cc_all tool.
It is good to vent opinions in public, as long as it does not infrige the confidentiality policy, if it does , you take a risk as an individual, if not , we still have a kind of freedom of speech. But make no false hope, whatever you think or write will not steer the boat differently.
Have fun !
If nobody is writing, that is just because there is nothing to write !!!! as expected !!!
Now , if you think that a couple of threads on pprune will defeat Netjets propaganda, you are in a world too teletubbies like for me :-)
The only thing that NetJets was and is being afraid of is bad publicity to the owners, since there is a strong chance that no owners are reading these threads, there is no risk.
The owners got their Website, with their own issues, ( not only Netjets owners, but also Flexjet, Citation Shares, Flight options, etc..); their concerns is not about our conditions, that is for sure !!
Outrage is communicating, very well, that was their first mission, they have access to the magic : _cc_all tool.
It is good to vent opinions in public, as long as it does not infrige the confidentiality policy, if it does , you take a risk as an individual, if not , we still have a kind of freedom of speech. But make no false hope, whatever you think or write will not steer the boat differently.
Have fun !
Bon Jour CL300
