DC 3 down near Berlin
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niknak
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GAMPZ used to be part of the original Eastern Airways in the 70s and 80s, based at Humberside Airport, mostly doing charters UK and Europe wide.
It did the first Humberside - Heathrow sheduled service, quite a moment as we taxied in and were parked next to a B.A Concorde, it was even better to see all the BA Engineers bring out their apprentices to show them what a real aeroplane looked like!
It did the first Humberside - Heathrow sheduled service, quite a moment as we taxied in and were parked next to a B.A Concorde, it was even better to see all the BA Engineers bring out their apprentices to show them what a real aeroplane looked like!
GAMPZ used to be part of the original Eastern Airways in the 70s and 80s, based at Humberside Airport, mostly doing charters UK and Europe wide.
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Slightly bemused...
A year or so ago I recall reading that UK DC3s had been grounded (for pax flights), by EU rules. Now I look here and see a pax-carrying DC3 just crashed in Germany.
Is it me (after just watching Dr Who) ? A quick look turns up:
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Dakota grounded
From June 08. To quote the video:
"...last chance anyone will ever have of taking a pleasure flight on one of these iconic planes, because from next month all passenger flights on them will be banned..."
So, WTF
Or is this another case of PITA EU rules that the UK imposes on direction from the rest of Europe who then ignore them or exempt themselves from them ?
Is it me (after just watching Dr Who) ? A quick look turns up:
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Dakota grounded
From June 08. To quote the video:
"...last chance anyone will ever have of taking a pleasure flight on one of these iconic planes, because from next month all passenger flights on them will be banned..."
So, WTF
Or is this another case of PITA EU rules that the UK imposes on direction from the rest of Europe who then ignore them or exempt themselves from them ?
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I suspect the more serious ramifications of this will be to add weight to the 'elf 'n safety police who have already stopped such aircraft carrying paying pax in the UK.
Out of the five DC-3s that I used to fly in as a pax way back then as a kid, two or three, and probably more, have ended up fatal. Yet, I would like fly in them if an opportunity arose.
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[ I know the DC3 single engine performance is legendary, but you're still supposed to at least start the filght with one on the other wing as well. ]
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"Isn't this a C47?"
I think an earlier poster pointed out that it started its military life with the RAF. So though it may have once been a DC-3, it was never a C-47.
I think an earlier poster pointed out that it started its military life with the RAF. So though it may have once been a DC-3, it was never a C-47.
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can I ask someone with pilot experience what the DC3 is able to do on one engine ?
), I'm sure any DC3 is not only capable of flying on one engine, but with a light load could probably take off with one - in fact if memory serves correctly, this was once demonstrated.
Sad to see this, hope it can be repaired.
Last flight I had in one was back in '70s, sidesaddle from Bougainville to Honiara. Pilots were twin brothers who had been QF apprentices a couple of years ahead of me.
As an apprentice in about 1963, I saw a poem about DC3s. All I can remember are the last two lines:
"They'll still be making bloody dough
When other planes no longer fly."
Does anyone have the whole poem?
Last flight I had in one was back in '70s, sidesaddle from Bougainville to Honiara. Pilots were twin brothers who had been QF apprentices a couple of years ahead of me.
As an apprentice in about 1963, I saw a poem about DC3s. All I can remember are the last two lines:
"They'll still be making bloody dough
When other planes no longer fly."
Does anyone have the whole poem?
Arthur Emmons Raymond (March 24, 1899, Boston Massachusetts – March 22, 1999, Santa Monica, California) was an aeronautical engineer who led the team that designed the DC-3.
National Air and Space Museum Trophy
The National Air and Space Museum presents this trophy annually to recognize both past and present achievements involving the management or execution of a scientific or technological project, a distinguished career of service in air and space technology, or a significant contribution in chronicling the history of air and space technology. The trophy was created for the National Air and Space Museum by John Safer of Washington, D.C.
The National Air and Space Museum presents this trophy annually to recognize both past and present achievements involving the management or execution of a scientific or technological project, a distinguished career of service in air and space technology, or a significant contribution in chronicling the history of air and space technology. The trophy was created for the National Air and Space Museum by John Safer of Washington, D.C.
Trophies and Awards at the National Air and Space Museum - National Air and Space Museum Trophy
Apparemtly thr first DC3 built couldn't attend the 50th aniversary fly-in because it was still in active service flying pasengers.
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DC-3 Single Engine Performance
It's getting late here. I'll post more tomorrow after I learn more.
I've got about 3,000 hrs. PIC in DC-3s. Single engine performance depends on how good the pilot is, how strong the remaining engine is, and weight of the aircraft.
The book says it should climb out at better than 300 fpm on a single engine at gross. I don't know which model 3 this is, so gross could be anything between 25,200lbs. to 26,900lbs.
From the overview I looked at, I think the pilot didn't use enough right rudder to keep her straight. She drifted left, and I couldn't tell from the photos if the left prop was feathered. If it wasn't, she wouldn't climb.
I've got about 3,000 hrs. PIC in DC-3s. Single engine performance depends on how good the pilot is, how strong the remaining engine is, and weight of the aircraft.
The book says it should climb out at better than 300 fpm on a single engine at gross. I don't know which model 3 this is, so gross could be anything between 25,200lbs. to 26,900lbs.
From the overview I looked at, I think the pilot didn't use enough right rudder to keep her straight. She drifted left, and I couldn't tell from the photos if the left prop was feathered. If it wasn't, she wouldn't climb.
Looks like the main gear that remain partially exposed even when retracted (mentioned recently in the Hudson Glider thread) did their job - the fuselage seems nice and high and not to have crinkled at all in these early shots (not to take anything away from the pilot's skill). 
G AMPZ
A sorry sight.
Before Eastern Airways G-AMPZ was operated by Rig Air at Norwich who in turn became Air Anglia in 1970 and she was their first Dak. I flew sitting on her jump seat several times.
Before Eastern Airways G-AMPZ was operated by Rig Air at Norwich who in turn became Air Anglia in 1970 and she was their first Dak. I flew sitting on her jump seat several times.
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know the DC3 single engine performance is legendary,
The DC-3 (or, if you prefer, C-47) is not a transport category airplane and does not have CAR4B required performance.
In addition, 5606 (type fluid) hydraulic pressure holds the gear retracted...no hydraulic pressure available, the landing gear free falls into the down (but not locked) position.
Performance in this case with one engine inop (even with prop feathered)...very poor.
I'm sure any DC3 is not only capable of flying on one engine, but with a light load could probably take off with one - in fact if memory serves correctly, this was once demonstrated.
IF you had flown the type, you would know.
Not quite; hydraulic pressure raises the gear but once up, it's locked by moving the selector into neutral, thereby trapping fluid in the lines. As you know, sometimes periodic 'Up' selection is required to stop the gear from lowering slightly in flight due to leakage past the selector shear seals.
As long as the landing gear is correctly serviced (lubricated), once it free-falls, either airflow pressure or application of a little 'g' should get the downlock latches to engage into 'Spring Lock'. Or, assuming there are no open lines, the handpump will snick it in, once the line suction has dissipated after a short while. When jacked in the hangar, light hand pressure on the crossbrace after free-fall is enough to prove the system isn't mechanically tight.
It's difficult to get a story from those photographs but I wouldn't be optimistic about getting the aircraft back into the air.
G-AMPZ was an old friend of mine; very sad to see her like this. In perspective, no one was badly hurt, so 'she done good'.
I remember reading that article about a DC3 taking off on one engine; I'll try to find it. It was empty though.
Ah, here we go:
One engine 1000 meter take off submitted by:John Miller
As long as the landing gear is correctly serviced (lubricated), once it free-falls, either airflow pressure or application of a little 'g' should get the downlock latches to engage into 'Spring Lock'. Or, assuming there are no open lines, the handpump will snick it in, once the line suction has dissipated after a short while. When jacked in the hangar, light hand pressure on the crossbrace after free-fall is enough to prove the system isn't mechanically tight.
It's difficult to get a story from those photographs but I wouldn't be optimistic about getting the aircraft back into the air.
G-AMPZ was an old friend of mine; very sad to see her like this. In perspective, no one was badly hurt, so 'she done good'.
I remember reading that article about a DC3 taking off on one engine; I'll try to find it. It was empty though.
Ah, here we go:
One engine 1000 meter take off submitted by:John Miller
Last edited by stevef; 20th Jun 2010 at 09:07. Reason: Addition of link.
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As long as the landing gear is correctly serviced (lubricated), once it free-falls, either airflow pressure or application of a little 'g' should get the downlock latches to engage into 'Spring Lock'.
only the mechanical lever lock will ensure that the landing gear will not collapse upon landing.
A primary design feature, at the time.
The aircraft could bite you and often fatally,
if you failed to get it right in all sorts of circumstances
if you failed to get it right in all sorts of circumstances
The next in line, the DC-4, was a huge improvement, and not just because it has four engines.
Last edited by 411A; 20th Jun 2010 at 09:25.