I realize businesses have to cut costs, but...
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I realize businesses have to cut costs, but...
Good afternoon everyone,
Excuse the slight rant, but I really felt like getting this off my chest after looking through this month's World Aircraft Sales Magazine.
Some of you know, I currently live off doing photo shoots and selling images to business aviation clientele, may these be brokers, operators or owners.
I realize keeping unnecessary costs down is important for anyone during these days, but when I see a good 30 percent of all photographs on avbuyer, controller and in the various magazines have just been downloaded off the internet and are used without photographers' permissions, I don't only loose out on a good chunk of income, but it's also downright illegal.
It seems that nearly every broker website, sales website or even websites of operators I come across contain one or muliple photographs (often mine!!) which are used without permission.
May be a sad sign of the times really, but stuff on the internet is not actually free (doh, I know
), and spending a couple of hundreds to pay for a high-quality photograph is not only the right thing to do, but also peanuts when you sell a 20 million Euro jet... 
phew...that helped...cheers!
Excuse the slight rant, but I really felt like getting this off my chest after looking through this month's World Aircraft Sales Magazine.
Some of you know, I currently live off doing photo shoots and selling images to business aviation clientele, may these be brokers, operators or owners.
I realize keeping unnecessary costs down is important for anyone during these days, but when I see a good 30 percent of all photographs on avbuyer, controller and in the various magazines have just been downloaded off the internet and are used without photographers' permissions, I don't only loose out on a good chunk of income, but it's also downright illegal.
It seems that nearly every broker website, sales website or even websites of operators I come across contain one or muliple photographs (often mine!!) which are used without permission.
May be a sad sign of the times really, but stuff on the internet is not actually free (doh, I know
), and spending a couple of hundreds to pay for a high-quality photograph is not only the right thing to do, but also peanuts when you sell a 20 million Euro jet... phew...that helped...cheers!
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Iīm happy to inform you that my site carries all of my own photographs and not one is taken from illegal sources - add to that all of the photos I have of aircraft for sale are also all of my own.
Now, when I see photographers taking (and publishing) pictures of my Clientīs aircraft without their knowledge and consent then, thatīs another thing eh? Food for thought ....... it is a two way thing so not all you photographers are free of blame either!
Rant over!
Now, when I see photographers taking (and publishing) pictures of my Clientīs aircraft without their knowledge and consent then, thatīs another thing eh? Food for thought ....... it is a two way thing so not all you photographers are free of blame either!
Rant over!
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Dear LGW V,
I appreciate your reply and wanted to add I'm aware that not everyone does this, but the bad ones always give the good ones a bit of a bad name, you know that.
On the second point, I understand your concern and am a pilot myself, so don't think I am just a photographer walking in here making a lot of noise without knowing both sides.
I don't hang out at the fences of the airports for hours every day like spotters with bino's and cameras, but normally get asked to specifically shoot this or that.
Regarding others not having the permission of the aircraft owner to take photos... if a photographer is on public land (i.e. not on the ramp of a FBO), he is free to take photos without permission.
Think of you driving down Times Square with a Ferrari. Nobody needs permission from you to take a photo of your car there. Just saying.
Again I appreciate your input.
I appreciate your reply and wanted to add I'm aware that not everyone does this, but the bad ones always give the good ones a bit of a bad name, you know that.
On the second point, I understand your concern and am a pilot myself, so don't think I am just a photographer walking in here making a lot of noise without knowing both sides.
I don't hang out at the fences of the airports for hours every day like spotters with bino's and cameras, but normally get asked to specifically shoot this or that.
Regarding others not having the permission of the aircraft owner to take photos... if a photographer is on public land (i.e. not on the ramp of a FBO), he is free to take photos without permission.
Think of you driving down Times Square with a Ferrari. Nobody needs permission from you to take a photo of your car there. Just saying.
Again I appreciate your input.
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INNflight
There are two sides to the coin. We downloaded an image from the internet for use in our web site. We got an angry call from the photograher demanding a fee for using it.
Fair enough maybe until we pointed out that the image was of an aircraft we actually owned. We had no record of the photographer asking our permission to photograph it.
How many times do you send a fee to the aircraft owner for the right to photo it?
There are two sides to the coin. We downloaded an image from the internet for use in our web site. We got an angry call from the photograher demanding a fee for using it.
Fair enough maybe until we pointed out that the image was of an aircraft we actually owned. We had no record of the photographer asking our permission to photograph it.
How many times do you send a fee to the aircraft owner for the right to photo it?
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hawker750,
I am not a lawyer but I don't see why, as long as the photographer takes a picture from a public area, you could legally prevent him to take a picture of your property or claim a fee.
On the other end, photographer can be a job.
I am not a lawyer but I don't see why, as long as the photographer takes a picture from a public area, you could legally prevent him to take a picture of your property or claim a fee.
On the other end, photographer can be a job.
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flexjet,
if only everyone would think along those lines. feel free to download something off my website, I'll send you my CV via PM
hawker750,
thanks for the reply, as said above I value any input.
I don't think brokers / operators etc. always "download" photographs being aware that it's illegal, so I'm also trying to clear things up for both sides.
As mentioned above, you can not legally hinder a photographer to take a photo of your jet, as long as he/she is on public land. Therefore a photographer needs no permission.
I have mentioned the Times Square / car analogy above. Think of all the photos with yellow cabs. They are on public streets, therefore anyone can take a photo of them without seeking permission.
Of course any photographer has to obey to your rules if he / she is on the ramp of a FBO, in a privately owned airport building or in your hangar.
---
Photographers (the few doing shoots in bizav) charge very reasonable fees for a high-quality product, that imho definitely helps to sell a jet.
I'm not sure how much commission a broker gets when selling a G-V or similar, but paying money to obtain a usage license for an image that's already been taken, which may cost a few hundred, is imho really not much of a deep cut into the costs.
if only everyone would think along those lines. feel free to download something off my website, I'll send you my CV via PM
hawker750,
thanks for the reply, as said above I value any input.
I don't think brokers / operators etc. always "download" photographs being aware that it's illegal, so I'm also trying to clear things up for both sides.
As mentioned above, you can not legally hinder a photographer to take a photo of your jet, as long as he/she is on public land. Therefore a photographer needs no permission.
I have mentioned the Times Square / car analogy above. Think of all the photos with yellow cabs. They are on public streets, therefore anyone can take a photo of them without seeking permission.
Of course any photographer has to obey to your rules if he / she is on the ramp of a FBO, in a privately owned airport building or in your hangar.
---
Photographers (the few doing shoots in bizav) charge very reasonable fees for a high-quality product, that imho definitely helps to sell a jet.
I'm not sure how much commission a broker gets when selling a G-V or similar, but paying money to obtain a usage license for an image that's already been taken, which may cost a few hundred, is imho really not much of a deep cut into the costs.
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hawker750 what sort of kookoo world are you living on!
If a photographer is on public land they do not need permission to photograph anything. They can photograph your plane, your arse, your face or your elbow without your permission.
If a photographer is on public land they do not need permission to photograph anything. They can photograph your plane, your arse, your face or your elbow without your permission.
If you go cluck, then yes you are a cuckoo.
It is perfectly legal to take photos in the UK. And it is dubious if a by-law will stand. Hence why we have the furor when parents try to take a photo of their kids at the swimming baths. They are legally entitled to. Even if the council Stasi throw in the human rights of the child.
I would see it as a positive that your hangar is in the photo. Class it as I would, free advertising.
The Dutch used it very well in the world cup, to sell a beer.
(Notice how I didn't use the beers name? For fear of falling foul of the moderators wrath).
It is perfectly legal to take photos in the UK. And it is dubious if a by-law will stand. Hence why we have the furor when parents try to take a photo of their kids at the swimming baths. They are legally entitled to. Even if the council Stasi throw in the human rights of the child.
I would see it as a positive that your hangar is in the photo. Class it as I would, free advertising.
The Dutch used it very well in the world cup, to sell a beer.
(Notice how I didn't use the beers name? For fear of falling foul of the moderators wrath).
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hawker it can have your arse for all to see at the cockpit window and you will still not have rights to its ownership.
Also in Scotland there is a 2005 Land Reform Act which allows anyone access to (basically) any land for (basically) any purpose. As long as this is not an airfield then again mr snappy with his Nikon camera can be there.
Oh I do love Caledonia
Also in Scotland there is a 2005 Land Reform Act which allows anyone access to (basically) any land for (basically) any purpose. As long as this is not an airfield then again mr snappy with his Nikon camera can be there.
Exemptions of land which one has right of access to are, roughly, as follows:
- Houses and gardens, and non-residential buildings and associated land
- Land in which crops have been sown or are growing (although please note that the headrigs, endrigs and other margins of fields where crops are growing are not defined as crops, whether sown or unsown, and are therefore within access rights).
- Land next to a school and used by the school
- Sports or playing fields when these are in use and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
- Land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
- Golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don't interfere with any games of golf)
- Places like airfields, railways, telecommunication sites, military bases and installations, working quarries and construction sites, and
- Visitor attractions or other places which charge for entry.
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Hawker 750 has a valid point, he can restrict anyone from taking photos when that someone is on HIS ramp or in HIS hangar.
Still don't own the right to use it obviously. But I think we've laid that out correctly by now.
Lets not get too heated up about it here. The mere fact that 700+ people read about it and hopefully consider doing the right thing the next time they need advertising material helps a lot already.
Still don't own the right to use it obviously. But I think we've laid that out correctly by now.
Lets not get too heated up about it here. The mere fact that 700+ people read about it and hopefully consider doing the right thing the next time they need advertising material helps a lot already.
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There are dozens of shots of every aircraft on the internet taken by fence monkeys, If you email them asking if it's ok to use their shots, 90% say yes, and send you hi-res copies.
If you want something specific then hire a photographer (and own the images as part of the agreement).
If you want something specific then hire a photographer (and own the images as part of the agreement).
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If you want something specific then hire a photographer (and own the images as part of the agreement).
We use photos of our own aircraft in advertising, photos taken by our guy,who is paid for the privilege.
In reality, the only responsible way.
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Gussett, you really do fail to get the point. I was not complaining about anyone photographing my plane i was complaining about that person trying to charge me for it. I am perfectly capable of filming it my self.
You seem to have an extraordinary interest in my arse. Is it just my arse or will any bloke's do?
I can send you a picture of it if you like for free.
You seem to have an extraordinary interest in my arse. Is it just my arse or will any bloke's do?
I can send you a picture of it if you like for free.
ah ha ha ha classic!
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Sir Gussett is a big enough arse he needs no more.
hawker
You have no right to take the photograph. If you are capable of photographing it yourself (your jet, not arse) then why don't you do so in future, instead of stealing from the internet?
Surely a jet owner with his own hangar like you could afford a digital camera. Or, better still, pay out a small fee for using another photographers.
hawker
There are two sides to the coin. We downloaded an image from the internet for use in our web site. We got an angry call from the photograher demanding a fee for using it.
Fair enough maybe until we pointed out that the image was of an aircraft we actually owned. We had no record of the photographer asking our permission to photograph it.
How many times do you send a fee to the aircraft owner for the right to photo it?
Fair enough maybe until we pointed out that the image was of an aircraft we actually owned. We had no record of the photographer asking our permission to photograph it.
How many times do you send a fee to the aircraft owner for the right to photo it?
Surely a jet owner with his own hangar like you could afford a digital camera.
Or, better still, pay out a small fee for using another photographers.
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If someone can't/doesn't want to fork out a few hundred for a good photograph, then a service like iStock is a good alternative. The images are of good quality and the photographer will be paid too.
