Ambeo based Cranfield
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but lost our first one to Blink yesterday
The Mustang was cheaper, but trust me - you get what you pay for!
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Just out of interest how is the realtionship between brokers and Blink.
Someone who owns a large brokerage told me the other day that Blink didnt really want to deal with them??!
Is that the case?
Someone who owns a large brokerage told me the other day that Blink didnt really want to deal with them??!
Is that the case?
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Do we need to say more that Blinks business model is already up for revision like Dayjets..... 
From Flight International jobs website:
I know this is the Amobe thread but I feel that they are exactly the same... One major difference... Amobe still believe in the Eclipse 
From Flight International jobs website:
Broker Relations Manager - United Kingdom - Managerial and Executive
Blink - Europe's first air taxi service - is a dynamic, entrepreneurial and fast growing business jet operator that is looking to expand its team. The emergence of very light jets is changing the way people think about private jet travel. If you are ambitious, love a challenge, and work best as part of a close-knit team, then Blink could be a great opportunity for you.
The candidate must have the ability to live and work in the United Kingdom.
You will work alongside our Customer Relations Manager to build relationships with charter brokers and educate the market on Blink's service offering.
Blink - Europe's first air taxi service - is a dynamic, entrepreneurial and fast growing business jet operator that is looking to expand its team. The emergence of very light jets is changing the way people think about private jet travel. If you are ambitious, love a challenge, and work best as part of a close-knit team, then Blink could be a great opportunity for you.
The candidate must have the ability to live and work in the United Kingdom.
You will work alongside our Customer Relations Manager to build relationships with charter brokers and educate the market on Blink's service offering.
Last edited by No RYR for me; 31st Oct 2008 at 09:45.
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That made me laugh
Dear Phil,
I have been away for a few days so have only just seen your post.
Having built several businesses in new or emerging markets over the years I never actually thought they were 'social experiments' - but that is perhaps a novel way of describing entrepreneurial capitalism!
As regards someone elses money - well there would be very few companys out there capable of any meaningful growth without access to outside capital would there? How much does an AOC and a few new aircraft cost these days?
Before you can attract such capital potential investors will also want to see the founders have substantial amounts of their own money invested as well - "skin in the game." How many of us have or are in the process of buying our homes without someone elses money BTW?
So if putting a significant amount of my own hard earned cash, matched by additional external capital (so easy to find at the moment ;-) ) into a new venture with the objective of creating prosperity and jobs; and the downside risks of personal bankruptcy to boot is a social experiment with someone elses money - yep that's exactly it!
G-SPOT
If they launched their business with only the few aircraft that their house would support - they would probably lose that house very quickly - the cost base of an AOC operation would not be supported.
Every entrepreneur I have ever met puts a very high percentage of their own assets on the line in each venture - and then then uses external capital to achieve their objectives. The CAA will insist on certain levels of capital adequacy to maintain an Operators Licence.
Your argument seems to suggest there is merit in starting an under capitalised business - when the exactly the opposite is the lower risk decision?
Is the business model under review?
I hadn't seen this advert from Blink.
I am not sure it means their model (which is totally different from the over hideously complicated Day Jet model) is up for review?
VLJs are new - so there is a requirement to explain that. They're recruting staff to address that. Seems sensible.
Odds On
I'll take that bet.
What odds are you offering?
What would you expect?
Well (in the UK at least) if was not a SE regional airport (London, Cranfield, Oxford ...) where would you expect to find this type of operation starting from?
I think the question you should really be asking is WHY an experienced operator like LEA *is* operating 4+ (?) Mustangs?
Your question about about why a customer pay almost the same for a smaller aircraft is a good one - but misplaced. Is the real question not how low do the DOCs of the Mustang allow operators to drop their prices before so it becomes an attractive/compelling business case for the customer to trade down and /or new customers to participate.
Parallels with the low cost carriers 10 years ago. Initially lots of people were sniffy about the concept - but gradually it establsihed itself and a whole group of new customers plus business people on short haul made the price driven change?
I have been away for a few days so have only just seen your post.
Having built several businesses in new or emerging markets over the years I never actually thought they were 'social experiments' - but that is perhaps a novel way of describing entrepreneurial capitalism!
As regards someone elses money - well there would be very few companys out there capable of any meaningful growth without access to outside capital would there? How much does an AOC and a few new aircraft cost these days?
Before you can attract such capital potential investors will also want to see the founders have substantial amounts of their own money invested as well - "skin in the game." How many of us have or are in the process of buying our homes without someone elses money BTW?
So if putting a significant amount of my own hard earned cash, matched by additional external capital (so easy to find at the moment ;-) ) into a new venture with the objective of creating prosperity and jobs; and the downside risks of personal bankruptcy to boot is a social experiment with someone elses money - yep that's exactly it!
G-SPOT
If they launched their business with only the few aircraft that their house would support - they would probably lose that house very quickly - the cost base of an AOC operation would not be supported.
Every entrepreneur I have ever met puts a very high percentage of their own assets on the line in each venture - and then then uses external capital to achieve their objectives. The CAA will insist on certain levels of capital adequacy to maintain an Operators Licence.
Your argument seems to suggest there is merit in starting an under capitalised business - when the exactly the opposite is the lower risk decision?
Is the business model under review?
I hadn't seen this advert from Blink.
I am not sure it means their model (which is totally different from the over hideously complicated Day Jet model) is up for review?
VLJs are new - so there is a requirement to explain that. They're recruting staff to address that. Seems sensible.
Odds On
I'll take that bet.
What odds are you offering?
What would you expect?
Well (in the UK at least) if was not a SE regional airport (London, Cranfield, Oxford ...) where would you expect to find this type of operation starting from?
I think the question you should really be asking is WHY an experienced operator like LEA *is* operating 4+ (?) Mustangs?
Your question about about why a customer pay almost the same for a smaller aircraft is a good one - but misplaced. Is the real question not how low do the DOCs of the Mustang allow operators to drop their prices before so it becomes an attractive/compelling business case for the customer to trade down and /or new customers to participate.
Parallels with the low cost carriers 10 years ago. Initially lots of people were sniffy about the concept - but gradually it establsihed itself and a whole group of new customers plus business people on short haul made the price driven change?
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G-SPOT
If they launched their business with only the few aircraft that their house would support - they would probably lose that house very quickly - the cost base of an AOC operation would not be supported.
Every entrepreneur I have ever met puts a very high percentage of their own assets on the line in each venture - and then then uses external capital to achieve their objectives. The CAA will insist on certain levels of capital adequacy to maintain an Operators Licence.
Your argument seems to suggest there is merit in starting an under capitalised business - when the exactly the opposite is the lower risk decision?
If they launched their business with only the few aircraft that their house would support - they would probably lose that house very quickly - the cost base of an AOC operation would not be supported.
Every entrepreneur I have ever met puts a very high percentage of their own assets on the line in each venture - and then then uses external capital to achieve their objectives. The CAA will insist on certain levels of capital adequacy to maintain an Operators Licence.
Your argument seems to suggest there is merit in starting an under capitalised business - when the exactly the opposite is the lower risk decision?
At worst you are reinventing the wheel at best its untried and untested being created in the worst trading time in ten years. To say that to go ahead is the lower risk decision right now is reckless at best. The best business decision would be to put it on hold for 3 or 4 years and advise the investors so and gain some respect so that when there is a chance of making it work the markets and the aircraft/people/funding are physically available for all the right reasons(Thats to say you are not adopting orders now from those that have seen sense)
Problem being that in these sort of ventures, the instigators get so passionate about the project that there is just no greater idea than the one proposed and regardless of what sense it makes it just makes perfect sense! People in addition get very accomplished at making the case and objection handling despite advice to the contrary from people who see trees instead of woods....and yes I have spent some time in commercial finance and funding.
If this venture does go ahead then I would be the first to wish you every success, please though think carefully about what happens when things go worng and the impact it has on people i.e. EBJ
For the record good luck (if you're involved)
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G-SPOTS
EBJ didn't go pop because of a poor business model. It was just poor management.
Personally, I think there is a market for an Ambeo type operation. With the cost of train tickets set to rise again, who in their right mind would want to stand on a dreary platform waiting for a train that you know will be late, which in turn has an impact on your overall day. Likewise with LHR. Who wants to spend hours driving into LHR to catch a flight to say NCL or EDI when effectively, these places are just "up the road".....
I just say sit back and watch what happens before setting out to destroy an idea that might just work.
EBJ didn't go pop because of a poor business model. It was just poor management.
Personally, I think there is a market for an Ambeo type operation. With the cost of train tickets set to rise again, who in their right mind would want to stand on a dreary platform waiting for a train that you know will be late, which in turn has an impact on your overall day. Likewise with LHR. Who wants to spend hours driving into LHR to catch a flight to say NCL or EDI when effectively, these places are just "up the road".....
I just say sit back and watch what happens before setting out to destroy an idea that might just work.
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DC9
The EBJ comment wasn't refering to a business plan or model it was just about what happens when things head south regardless of reason. I'm fairly certain EBJ crews aren't getting solace from the fact that the Business plan was sound right now......
To suggest that somebody might forego a train that might run late for a seat in a bizjet in the current climate and do it regularly enough to warrant a return on a fleet of 500'/510's and their respective deposits is folly.
If they had started 24-30 months ago and had a chance to establish a foothold clientwise when the sine wave was pointing the other way then I would be asking where to send my cheque!
The intent to do it now just means that if it doesn't work then its possibly another opportunity/investor lost, to have another big employer like NJE on the scene providing lots of work for lots of crews would be good for the industry, to have another failed VLJ startup might just sh1tcan the idea for good.
Besides the 500 isn't even EASA certified yet.
DC9 I do agree that we should wish them well and once again I do.
Lets just hope they get past this little pothole on the road to VLJ heaven called a RECESSION!
The EBJ comment wasn't refering to a business plan or model it was just about what happens when things head south regardless of reason. I'm fairly certain EBJ crews aren't getting solace from the fact that the Business plan was sound right now......
To suggest that somebody might forego a train that might run late for a seat in a bizjet in the current climate and do it regularly enough to warrant a return on a fleet of 500'/510's and their respective deposits is folly.
If they had started 24-30 months ago and had a chance to establish a foothold clientwise when the sine wave was pointing the other way then I would be asking where to send my cheque!
The intent to do it now just means that if it doesn't work then its possibly another opportunity/investor lost, to have another big employer like NJE on the scene providing lots of work for lots of crews would be good for the industry, to have another failed VLJ startup might just sh1tcan the idea for good.
Besides the 500 isn't even EASA certified yet.
DC9 I do agree that we should wish them well and once again I do.
Lets just hope they get past this little pothole on the road to VLJ heaven called a RECESSION!
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EBJ's model was a bit flawed.. it needed 6 more aircraft, $25mil more investment, half the ops staff, and decent management. It hemorrhaged cash into positioning sectors, excess wages, and generally bad planning. It lost something in the region of 3mil in the time it operated - 1.5 of that in the last 5 months.
A fractional model could work for that type of operation but you can't bleed cash like that and expect it to just work out. EBJ were spending money every time they got airborne - we flew a lot and thats why the losses are so big.
don't tell anybody though because it hasnt actually gone bust yet....
A fractional model could work for that type of operation but you can't bleed cash like that and expect it to just work out. EBJ were spending money every time they got airborne - we flew a lot and thats why the losses are so big.
don't tell anybody though because it hasnt actually gone bust yet....
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VLJ002
You mention LEA, yet you imply it is impossible to start with a small number of aircraft or little money. LEA started with a Seneca. So did Centreline. Most of the jets they both use are dry leased from owners who want them managed, for their own private use and for income from AOC work.
Meaningful growth can be achieved without external capital, I've seen it. The problem is it takes patience and foresight, not known as characteristics of youth.
You mention LEA, yet you imply it is impossible to start with a small number of aircraft or little money. LEA started with a Seneca. So did Centreline. Most of the jets they both use are dry leased from owners who want them managed, for their own private use and for income from AOC work.
Meaningful growth can be achieved without external capital, I've seen it. The problem is it takes patience and foresight, not known as characteristics of youth.
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I think the question you should really be asking is WHY an experienced operator like LEA *is* operating 4+ (?) Mustangs?
Having built several businesses in new or emerging markets over the years
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Heheh, you have to pay 250 pounds for the initial selection (simulator), 250 pounds for a personal questionaire, 100 pounds for the interview and 2600 pounds for a pre type rating training!!!!!!!.
Unbelievable, what are they thinking on?,hahahhaha
Unbelievable, what are they thinking on?,hahahhaha
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they want money!!!!!!
I just read the mail from Mr .Spencer and I am still confused,
I have to pay for the selection the following amount:
Financial structure (costs):
Initial Selection - £250.00
Occupational Personality Questionnaire Evaluation - £250.00***
Formal interview - £100.00
Pre-Type Rating training - £2,600.00
All costs are inclusive of UK VAT.
I am speechless.
I have to pay for the selection the following amount:
Financial structure (costs):
Initial Selection - £250.00
Occupational Personality Questionnaire Evaluation - £250.00***
Formal interview - £100.00
Pre-Type Rating training - £2,600.00
All costs are inclusive of UK VAT.
I am speechless.
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Ambeo is a swizz
Be warned, the terms and conditions relating to the application process are nothing short of scandalous.
Submit your CV (as advertised in Flight) and in return receive a letter 'allowing you' to apply for the application process...yes...apply to apply! Then fork out £250 for short sim ride (ancient crock), plus £250 for some kind of aptitude test, then £100 for an interview...then fork out an unknown amount for "pre-course flight training of 25 hours"...then if you are successful having paid all this money you will be invited to attend the type rating course (for which you will be bonded).
Anybody that swallows this junk or allows themselves to be suckered into this deserves all they get.
On the other hand it would be worth it, to pay the cash to get to meet this ludicrous bunch of idiots (have you seen their web and business plan...it is the most childish and ill thought out scheme that I have ever seen in aviation and of course the Eclipse is involved, which will fail within the next month).
Alternatively, if you see them at Cambridge you might choose to give them your thoughts.
Submit your CV (as advertised in Flight) and in return receive a letter 'allowing you' to apply for the application process...yes...apply to apply! Then fork out £250 for short sim ride (ancient crock), plus £250 for some kind of aptitude test, then £100 for an interview...then fork out an unknown amount for "pre-course flight training of 25 hours"...then if you are successful having paid all this money you will be invited to attend the type rating course (for which you will be bonded).
Anybody that swallows this junk or allows themselves to be suckered into this deserves all they get.
On the other hand it would be worth it, to pay the cash to get to meet this ludicrous bunch of idiots (have you seen their web and business plan...it is the most childish and ill thought out scheme that I have ever seen in aviation and of course the Eclipse is involved, which will fail within the next month).
Alternatively, if you see them at Cambridge you might choose to give them your thoughts.
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Hi guys
I have received the email and it´s the most ridiculous offer I have ever had.
For flying an eclipse or a mustang LOL LOL LOL.
This must be a joke, C´mon.
If anybody with experience goes to that selection, we must remove his/her license for good.
Take care.
I have received the email and it´s the most ridiculous offer I have ever had.
For flying an eclipse or a mustang LOL LOL LOL.
This must be a joke, C´mon.
If anybody with experience goes to that selection, we must remove his/her license for good.
Take care.