Not interested in Jet republic?
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There's no denying JB made a success of White Concierge. The investors have seen that, will have made due diligence enquiries and now know far more about him than you or I do. As they tell you at indoc these people don't get rich by being stupid.
JB had success, right. Everybody has potential if he is supported and trained well and put into the right position. Dont get me too wrong here, but a well trained Janitor is an assett, the heart and soul of every company. Does that mean he will be a good teamleader or manager? Porbably not, but maybe Yes. Who knows.
DM and JB have been proven to be excellent managers in their specific and tailored postions and tasks. What a potential, but then NJE made a mistage (they still do) they promote people by senority and success in their present role, without checking their potential for the next carreer step. And here is what went wrong.
Whiteconsierge (from which I have no clue about its success, never heard of them before, but this is my ignorance and doesnt mean they are no-good. How many employees and budget per year? I have no idea!
) seems to be a good stage for a poser. Self-Presentation as part of the business. Well picked, stay there and be happy and drive bad-taste-coloured sportscars. But dont reach too high, this has proven to be the wrong thing on one occasion and history might repeat itself.
End of-off-topic, sorry for the detour.
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Originally Posted by 4Green
DM and JB have been proven to be excellent managers in their specific and tailored postions and tasks.
Are we talking about the same people here?
I said JB had made a success of White Concierge, I'd never agree he was a good manager.
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Paddy Power now offering bets on whether JR will still be in business on 1st Jan 2010
Jet Republic Launch Betting
Jet Republic Launch Betting
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They've just luanched a new promotional video this morning. I think it's quite good.
YouTube - Bannana Republic Intro
I might stick a tenner on with paddy power, you never know i might win a Lear 60XR!!!!
YouTube - Bannana Republic Intro
I might stick a tenner on with paddy power, you never know i might win a Lear 60XR!!!!
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Whilst I believe the choice of aircraft for the philosophy is wrong, unless they employ midget cabin crew, they do have an interesting and dynamic management team. The customer services director Peter Schickling is top of his tree in the world and I know he wouldn't be there if it wasn't well supported and planned so should be a fascinating development.
No, I don't work for them and would not
No, I don't work for them and would not
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Jet Republic - Private or Public Transport?
Just getting back on track here - if they are getting an EU-OPS certificate, albeit in free and easy Portugal (who's oversight seems to have anomalies compared with other EU states), surely flights should be undertaken under public transport rules? In the UK, any form of aircraft management for hire and reward is deemed to be 'public transport' whether block hours 'lease' or 'charter' or fractional when a third party company is running the aircraft for the owner for payment of one kind or another. If anyone recieves payment of any kind for running the aircraft - its public transport, isn't it?
If public transport, then I stand by the fact that you can't fly the aircraft privately when you choose to (unless empty/positioning) and therefore being the Lear 60, with the worse landing performance of almost any business jet, it won't be able to go anywhere unless it's a typical commercial hub airport.
Can someone explain how the JB flights can possibly be 'private' and therfore for example need minimum fire & rescue cover, no security screening for the passengers and leave the field performance down to the captain's discretion rather than what the ops manual dictates?
Saves one heck of a lot of hassle!
If public transport, then I stand by the fact that you can't fly the aircraft privately when you choose to (unless empty/positioning) and therefore being the Lear 60, with the worse landing performance of almost any business jet, it won't be able to go anywhere unless it's a typical commercial hub airport.
Can someone explain how the JB flights can possibly be 'private' and therfore for example need minimum fire & rescue cover, no security screening for the passengers and leave the field performance down to the captain's discretion rather than what the ops manual dictates?
Saves one heck of a lot of hassle!
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Avioactive.
Good questions indeed and the very questions that have been asked of a Lisbon based fractional operator known for operating their aircraft 'privately' despite multiple ownership and a commercial AOC. I have seen them arrive empty using the aircraft registration as their callsign then leave with passengers under their company callsign.
Funnily enough when such flights are questioned by crew the flights are transferred to someone more compliant and the first crew never asked to do them again.
If you wanted to extend this conversation you could ask about things like fire cover too but maybe you answered the question when you mentioned the country in which they operate.
Good questions indeed and the very questions that have been asked of a Lisbon based fractional operator known for operating their aircraft 'privately' despite multiple ownership and a commercial AOC. I have seen them arrive empty using the aircraft registration as their callsign then leave with passengers under their company callsign.
Funnily enough when such flights are questioned by crew the flights are transferred to someone more compliant and the first crew never asked to do them again.
If you wanted to extend this conversation you could ask about things like fire cover too but maybe you answered the question when you mentioned the country in which they operate.
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Scratch Pad
NO NO NO NO NO NO and once again NO. You are way wide of the mark. When you hear them using the tail number CS-D?? it is GA operations. There is nothing preventing the company operating the aircraft under GA rules and this is usually done for operational reasons. Do you think the INAC would just turn a blind eye to GA operations? No they would not, if they where doing anything wrong they would be told not to do it anymore.
Switched to a "more compliant crew", absolute rubbish.
Fire cover requirements are CLEAR in the operations manual part A, and crews abide by them. If the crews are in any doubt it usually results in a call to the SOF and they WILL get the schedulers to change the plan if sufficient fire cover is not available.
NO NO NO NO NO NO and once again NO. You are way wide of the mark. When you hear them using the tail number CS-D?? it is GA operations. There is nothing preventing the company operating the aircraft under GA rules and this is usually done for operational reasons. Do you think the INAC would just turn a blind eye to GA operations? No they would not, if they where doing anything wrong they would be told not to do it anymore.
Switched to a "more compliant crew", absolute rubbish.
Fire cover requirements are CLEAR in the operations manual part A, and crews abide by them. If the crews are in any doubt it usually results in a call to the SOF and they WILL get the schedulers to change the plan if sufficient fire cover is not available.
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Not rubbish. First hand information.
Remember the line sent out "Because those owning a share are 'owners' we can fly private rules"? I know three people who queried that and were retasked, the flight was completed by another crew in all cases.
I'll say it is, you'll say it isn't and the thread will spiral downward but I know what I've seen and what the boys in (Lisbon) Ops have told me. I have no intention of getting into an argument over something neither of us can prove here but I know to be true.
Remember the line sent out "Because those owning a share are 'owners' we can fly private rules"? I know three people who queried that and were retasked, the flight was completed by another crew in all cases.
I'll say it is, you'll say it isn't and the thread will spiral downward but I know what I've seen and what the boys in (Lisbon) Ops have told me. I have no intention of getting into an argument over something neither of us can prove here but I know to be true.
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So are we operating in GA and out on a fraction call sign or GA with pax on board because "they are owners". Two posts two conflicting allegations.
Also you chose not to talk about the fire cat "issue" you raised. Lets hear all about it.
Be careful, i won't go round and round for long before i embarass you.
Also you chose not to talk about the fire cat "issue" you raised. Lets hear all about it.
Be careful, i won't go round and round for long before i embarass you.
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I've not used the term 'GA'. I didn't wite anything about GA with passengers.
To reiterate. Instructions were issued to crew to position as private flights. Crew refused, jobs given to someone else.
Fire Cat issue? Simple really, it was too low. Your Part A might be clear and I'm sure that you and all the other decent people follow it but that's not to say everyone else is the same. Please, don't shoot the messenger.
To reiterate. Instructions were issued to crew to position as private flights. Crew refused, jobs given to someone else.
Fire Cat issue? Simple really, it was too low. Your Part A might be clear and I'm sure that you and all the other decent people follow it but that's not to say everyone else is the same. Please, don't shoot the messenger.
Last edited by Scratch Pad; 15th Oct 2008 at 09:00.
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Can I ask a specific and possibly relevant question?
NJ operate to Galway but its too short for public transport jet operations isnt it?...
If NJ do this 'interpretation' of what is commercial and what is private to suit their daily needs does this mean JR will be allowed to as well....? as stated in the thread.
Galwayy pretty cut and dried (no pun intended) isnt it?
NJ operate to Galway but its too short for public transport jet operations isnt it?...
If NJ do this 'interpretation' of what is commercial and what is private to suit their daily needs does this mean JR will be allowed to as well....? as stated in the thread.
Galwayy pretty cut and dried (no pun intended) isnt it?
Commercial ... or not?
Our Euro-overlords seems to have decided that frac and management systems are not CAT at all. See the following document:
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/...05334.en08.pdf
In particular, para 26, 29 (2nd part) and 30 on page 6.
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/...05334.en08.pdf
In particular, para 26, 29 (2nd part) and 30 on page 6.
Last edited by Sepp; 15th Oct 2008 at 10:35. Reason: changed pointers to material...