Change from Airlines to Bizjets

[RAPA Pilot]

I've just made the Jump from Airline to bizjet as a DEC. Luckily I have had experience of Single crew public transport Ops where I was loading and unloading pax and bags, briefing the pax and cleaning sick off the floor some years ago. It definately is a state of mind. So you have to be down to earth, a problem solver and flexable. In return it's a greatt salery, interesting places, fasinating pax some stunning birds working at the FBOs and fast modern clean jets. Oh and they payed me to sit by the pool for 2 days in Bergerac last weekend and I've had the week off. No brainer, great job. And to think I nearly turned it down.

Col..
I didn't recommend anyone from my airline either.

[doubleu-anker]

Depends if you want to carry on working your guts out. Do you want to do 3 and 4 sectors plus per day, everyday working day and face burnout? Been there, done that. We only have so many hours in each of us, in a life time.

I did 100 hours last year total in corporate, so at my time of life it suits me just fine.

If you get with the right person/owner in corporate, you cant bet corporate.

I have flown both airline and corporate, so I am in a position to give an informed opinion.

[Denti]

I'm looking currently into business aviation as airline life doesn't seem to be the thing for me, tried it for 8 years now and i dont think i wanna do that for the rest of my life.

However, i wonder if around 4800 hours is enough to get a job that pays roughly the same as my airline job as i have of course some obligations i have to meet? Airline life means between 65000 and 80000 Euros a year for me (yes, i know, thats very german, but alas thats where i currently live).

[Arkwright]

Denti, depending on what weight aircraft you've got experience on, that salary is easily achievable with a lot of european bizjet operators.

[lepremier]

Pressure to arrive at destination...

I’m just about to move from the Airline world into Business Aviation, with a “reputable” company….I asked, during the interview a question along the lines of how much pressure can one expect to be made to make sure you land at the intended destination, multi million $ deal depending on arrival at B and not diverting to C due to it being a “bit” foggy etc. The answer was of course we would back your judgement completely even at the risk of losing the client.
On “your” experience guys is this so or at the minima are you expected to blink a little longer….I can imagine the answers are different if you are employed directly by the owner or work for an operator……

[doubleu-anker]

Stay within the rules/law and you stay out of trouble. Just like the airlines, so why should corporate be any different?

A lot of ex airline people think GA pilots are a bunch of bush pilots. Well we are not. On the other hand I have flown with airline and ex airline personal and......... I will refrain from further comment.

Maintain your own standards and dont bow to commerical pressure.

[lepremier]

No insinuation of the sort intended, sorry if I ruffled your feathers. I have colleagues who have worked in GA for years and have thoroughly enjoyed it but admit that the operational pressures can be of a different nature, especially if you are flying the "bosses" jet.

[wilf102]

Many thanks for your thoughts and views. Its nice to read some positive and well thought out answers and views. Is there a viewpoint on how different types influence lifestyle and is there a view on the difference between working for a "managed aircraft" or an owner directly?

[Flintstone]

*SWEEPING GENERALISATION ALERT!!*


1. In my experience managed aircraft tend to operate in a more structured manner with, for example, a more stable roster.

2. Single owners are more likely to fly 'there' and stay a while before heading home (or elsewhere) so the crew have a more peaceful existence as opposed to charter/fractional where minimum rest and extended duty days will be expected in the quest for a profit.

3. Larger aircraft fly longer sectors so expect jetlag, tiring days and days spent down route as opposed to puddle jumpers which may fly several shorter hops. Then again see #2 above.

For all three rules there will be an aircraft or company who are the exception.

[Denti]

Awkright, thanks for your answer. Gonna start some research then what may be a good entry into the business. Prior experience is solely right hand seat and lowish weight planes (737-300/500/700 and our sim sessions are done on the -800).

[neil armstrong]

Just made the move, resigned a couple of days ago from my airline and will join a big company to fly there business jets around the world for them.

Cant wait

Neil

[inner]

So typical. Airline pilots moving to corporates just because they are nowadays afraid in the airline company loosing their job and because corporate is nowadays booming business. What about people who really want to fly biz jets? People who are very motivated to work for a corporate? People who are simply not interested in airline planes? Well most of those people don't get a chance because some guy with some experience on a 737 wants to change because of the "better life" and has no clue what corporate flying involves, except the money then.

No i'm not a frustrated guy. I fly a biz jet myself but i see it so often. People, young guys not getting a chance because of the upper mentioned reason.

My opinion.

[Energetic Pilot]

@ inner

you are so right!!!!!!!!!!

[doubleu-anker]

Guilty as charged.

However, in mitigation I would like to point out I spent time in GA before returning to GA.

[Jenson Button]

inner...

how narrow-minded. Its a free world isn't it or should there be a ban on people who might just offer different experience or better skills.Not everyone in GA will have several thousand hours on a variety of jet types most of which are operated to SOPs as stringent if not more so than airline flying. jeez talk about philosophies from the yorkshire school of flying. Apologies to those of you who live in yorkshire but if you don't know what i'm talking about check out youtube.

JB

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Since most airline guys come from a GA backound (most have flown 152s or equivalent at some stage),it is a good thing that the airlines and the pilots who were born airline pilots aren't so narrow minded.

More seriously though, the GA world has
- Expanded greatly (hence more jobs on offer)
- Matured (SOPs, Rosters, Career progression, H24 availability not longer a must etc...)

So it is not that much of crazy idea for people who enjoy flying (many pilots) to seek new challenges, better suited jobs etc... And to find it in GA.

Also note that more GA operators use "airline" kit (BBJs, CRJs, ACJ, etc... so it can be all that bad.
And finally it is not that rare anymore to find GA operators operating, in an adapted way, close to the airline way.

I started in GA, flew for the airlines and now back to GA... So am I a good guy ? Or if one day I decide to go back to the bush, how should I be looked at by my future or former colleagues ? A rogue pilot, a mercenary of some kind, an ATPL holder (A standing for Airline I seem to remember).

Guys, if you fear competition from airline guys, I suggest you hit the books and prove them all you are better. Perhaps their humility will then make them realise they have a lot to learn from you.

Good flights to all.... I look forward to flying with you, whatever your background is.

[inner]

Hello

First of all, my opinion has nothing to do with "being narrow minded". It just reflects reality. Things i've seen in other companies as well.

The company i work for shares my opnion,no sorry, i share their opinion. Thatswhy that the company has the policy not hire former airline pilots anymore. And i think it is a good decision. A few years ago some of them (not all) looked down on us but the most hypocrite thing is that those same people are now applying for GA jobs. And you say now we have to hire them because he/she is afraid to loose his security in the airline company while in the meantime a wannabe is working his guts to get his first job?????????????

Being afraid of competition or better skills?????? Come on, I'v learned flying from former military pilots. Although i still consider myself who can learn a lot from other pilots.
Better experience???? Hell yeah flying from A to B and back. Great experience,indeed.

Now you can all find me sarcastic or narrow minded but i'm glad that some other companies share my view and only hire people who are really honestly interested in this job.

Once again, my opnion, glad you respect it.

[Arkwright]

Denti, you may think your experience is on lightweight aircraft, but 737's are "heavy metal" to us in G/A!

With a few thousand hours on a 737 you could expect a rapid progression to command on many medium size corporate jets. Don't forget, GA generally normally dosen't have seniority lists......if you have the experience, and show the aptitude, the command is yours!

[PPRuNeUser0215]

A few years ago some of them (not all) looked down on us but the most hypocrite thing is that those same people are now applying for GA jobs. And you say now we have to hire them

So "some" airline pilots looked down on you therefore none of them must be hired. Makes sense
On the other hand, I do not say you have to hire them either. In my outfit we try to hire the right pilot and that's why all backgrounds are welcome to the interviews and that's also why, we find all sorts later on the line. But it is important to try to screen properly in an unbiased manner.

while in the meantime a wannabe is working his guts to get his first job?????????????

I wasn't really comparing a wannabe and an experienced guy. But it is not true to assume that ALL airline pilots have a walk in the park to get on a 737. Many have done rubbish jobs before getting a flying job.

Now you can all find me sarcastic or narrow minded but i'm glad that some other companies share my view and only hire people who are really honestly interested in this job.

So by saying NO to all airline pilots, these companies really know they are turning down pilots who are definitely not interested in GA. Magic powers ? Cool, I want one of those.
On the other hand, I prefer our approach. No prejudice on the background, let's see if the guy can fly, can fit in and has the potential to be a good, safe, LHS operator (once he has done his time in the RHS). Kind of fair I think but like you said, and quite rightly, what makes us fit in our respective companies is how much we share values with your employer. I knew for example that Easyjet wasn't for me. I saw it at the interview (which I failed a few years ago now), just the way they saw I would not fit in their organisation. No bitterness I assure you, it was better for the both of us .

So my present employer doesn't discriminate at the interview or on the line and that suits me fine. I share this value. You, you share your employer's one and like me you are happy with it.

Come on, I'v learned flying from former military pilots.

I was refering to skills in general. Not just stick and rudder. There is a long list of them and very few of us excel in all of them. As a matter of fact, stick and rudder tends to be a less important one in the modern commercial environment (please don't say I said it was unimportant). For example Long range experience can be useful when you will be doing your first (GA) North Atlantic Crossing... Skills I had in mind are of a very wide variety, just like our pilot's background .

Better experience???? Hell yeah flying from A to B and back. Great experience,indeed.

Although I do respect your opinion, I have to accept that once again you are generalising and by (no fault of your own, you have not do the job of an airline pilot), only see one small part of the airline job. True A to B to A is the norm but the big toys require a different philosophy when operating them and that's where the work needs to be done. As for the experience, I was lucky enough to fly a 767 in the Indonesian weather or the hot days in Saudia and I thought it was great experience... I actually even learnt that in spite of flying from A to B to C then A, there was a lot of room to FCUK up. So now in my GA days, I try to remember that and when I seem to recognise a symptom of a potentially deteriorating situation (based on me A to B experience), I try to steer away from trouble. Maybe I didn't learn that much but just a little is better than nothing.


I have come to accept that the industry offers a great deal of different jobs, work locations, destinations, airplanes, people, styles, rewards, bad times, good times etc... But that's what's make me tick hence why I do respect your opinion but do not share it. It ain't a bad thing either.

[olster]

very good reply,Amex -spot on.