Club 328 in trouble????
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Dont get caught out saying the wrong word
HAWKER 750
To call pilots drivers is a bit harsh, drivers are for the likes of buses, lorries and similar transport that do not get airbourne.
I worked for a company many years ago and we were haveing bad weather, I turned round to two of the pilots in the crew room and said just as well we have some good drivers on this morning.
The remark was not taken very well, one turned round and said we are pilots and not drivers, so don,t get caught out.
To call pilots drivers is a bit harsh, drivers are for the likes of buses, lorries and similar transport that do not get airbourne.
I worked for a company many years ago and we were haveing bad weather, I turned round to two of the pilots in the crew room and said just as well we have some good drivers on this morning.
The remark was not taken very well, one turned round and said we are pilots and not drivers, so don,t get caught out.
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Captain Flintstone sir, please dont punish me - i will stay in the 20 minuters for at least another 3 sorties before emulating your goodself - or should i just call you Lord Flasheart........! Woof - right bring on the girls... and Baldrick bring me a beer...! 
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JS....your obvious loyalty to Crowther and PC is commendable, but totally misplaced.
For a start, this guy isn't the slightest bit naive....He bought Club328 purely to get hold of the AOC ( see the article in EBAN March 2008) and he knew back in October that he had no intention of keeping either the Premier or the Dornier on the fleet. Crew were told at the time (October 2007) that he and his 'team of investors' had shoved 20 million into the coffers, basically bringing the balance sheet back to zero. So any financial problems now are down to his bad management and dodgy deals, not because of anything inherited from Club328....either that, or he lied (Crowther???Surely not??!!
) about the initial investment in the first place.
Those people laid off in February were pressurised ( unsuccessfully, I might add) to sign some cock-a-mammy Compromise Agreement, signing away their rights to any redundancy/holiday pay/pay in lieu of notice etc, at the time, but hopefully to receive all payments over a period of 6 months, starting from June. In addition, there are still salaries owing for the first 2 weeks of February....But he can't afford to pay, apparently. If he can't afford to pay his staff, then the company is insolvent, and he shouldn't be trading.
******
For a start, this guy isn't the slightest bit naive....He bought Club328 purely to get hold of the AOC ( see the article in EBAN March 2008) and he knew back in October that he had no intention of keeping either the Premier or the Dornier on the fleet. Crew were told at the time (October 2007) that he and his 'team of investors' had shoved 20 million into the coffers, basically bringing the balance sheet back to zero. So any financial problems now are down to his bad management and dodgy deals, not because of anything inherited from Club328....either that, or he lied (Crowther???Surely not??!!
) about the initial investment in the first place.Those people laid off in February were pressurised ( unsuccessfully, I might add) to sign some cock-a-mammy Compromise Agreement, signing away their rights to any redundancy/holiday pay/pay in lieu of notice etc, at the time, but hopefully to receive all payments over a period of 6 months, starting from June. In addition, there are still salaries owing for the first 2 weeks of February....But he can't afford to pay, apparently. If he can't afford to pay his staff, then the company is insolvent, and he shouldn't be trading.
******
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Sure DC10. You can contact me via a PM here. Better still post your company details here and give others a chance. I don't mind competing.
Which company do you represent?
Which company do you represent?
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cfw - sorry old chum - way off the mark... i have ZERO respect for PC, you know as well as i do that the investment never came through and he only bought the company for £1 for the AOC as you state but he took on the liability thinking that getting rid of the expensive - typically unserviceable machines would solve the financial problems..... surely you as a driver can flick through the tech logs like i did and see that the aircraft all flew less than 300hrs each during 07 x that amount of operting and infrastructure cost by the revenue recieved and things quickly paint a dull picture..... If you were foolish enough to sign the compromise agreement.... then there is not much i can do about that ... many didnt and others went for tribunal....
Crowther is not necessarily a crook - but someone that bit off more than he could chew and is now paying the price...... but so is everyone else.....
The glitzy lights of business aviation will repeat this scenario over and over again..... you know it, i know it - do your own due diligence before you go for employment.....
Ho Hum...!
Crowther is not necessarily a crook - but someone that bit off more than he could chew and is now paying the price...... but so is everyone else.....
The glitzy lights of business aviation will repeat this scenario over and over again..... you know it, i know it - do your own due diligence before you go for employment.....
Ho Hum...!
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Honest.....
Good honest answer Jetsrcream, a lesson learned for everyone. Let us hope this recklessness is never repeated as it tarnishes the business and the reputation of honest legitimate operators.
I think it is now time for the CAA to take a close look at this case to ensure that it does not happen again, an AOC is pricelsss and a treasured possession, keeping it intact needs dedicated, skillful staff who understand the business, not reckless business men like PC.
No value can be put on an AOC and anyone who thinks they can buy one are sadly mistaken.
Lessons learned, hearts broken, lives shattered all in the name of ego, impatience and sheer greed!
I think it is now time for the CAA to take a close look at this case to ensure that it does not happen again, an AOC is pricelsss and a treasured possession, keeping it intact needs dedicated, skillful staff who understand the business, not reckless business men like PC.
No value can be put on an AOC and anyone who thinks they can buy one are sadly mistaken.
Lessons learned, hearts broken, lives shattered all in the name of ego, impatience and sheer greed!
Last edited by DC10 Heavy; 3rd Jun 2008 at 20:25.
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think you will find PC went bust last night..... endex...! good luck to all the crews and boys and girls - hey sonja come work for me.......phwaaaaa!!
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Much as I hate hearing it on here first, I will bite -
Jetscream, can you tell us where you got this information from ? There're a fair few people out here whose careers are in suspended animation at the moment as a result of this mess.
Jetscream, can you tell us where you got this information from ? There're a fair few people out here whose careers are in suspended animation at the moment as a result of this mess.
Last edited by FlyingGasMain; 4th Jun 2008 at 09:15.
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quickstop
Its true Crowther did not pay the salaries my source says but negotiations are still ongoing Im told as Crowther still wants staff to operate the aircraft while he offloads the business onto a mystery buyer ...any ideas?
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s midgeon
Hold on X93. the fat lady is in the wings warming up but is not yet on the stage. Your call might have suggested the end of Mr Crowther, but not necessarily the AOC or the great staff who have worked for that AOC whilst under extreme pressure for the last 5 months. The present situation is that the staff are at home awaiting payment and will not operate or fly until that happens. Management from that AOC have a meeting with the CAA tomorrow to discuss possible options open to us in future without Mr Crowther.
Its not over yet for us
Its not over yet for us
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Greatest Asset = Staff
The staff need highly commending dealing with the crap going on around them. They need a huge pat on the back and most of all the wages they are owed.
Question?
If the AOC is salvaged what are the managment going to operate? Club 328 have no aircraft. G-SOVA and G-LUXY are the property of Mitre so if PC goes so do the aircraft. Well that is if Euro Control don't call in the debt and AVTEC are paid?
An AOC is not very much use without aircraft.
Question?
If the AOC is salvaged what are the managment going to operate? Club 328 have no aircraft. G-SOVA and G-LUXY are the property of Mitre so if PC goes so do the aircraft. Well that is if Euro Control don't call in the debt and AVTEC are paid?
An AOC is not very much use without aircraft.
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A genuine question, was it lack of funding, or lack of funding combined with lack of operatiional control? Surely if the latter was true wouldn't that show that "the greatest asset" was under par?
PC didn't run the company on his own did he, with his relative lack of experience, did he not rely on his staff to get him into / out of this mess?
PB
PC didn't run the company on his own did he, with his relative lack of experience, did he not rely on his staff to get him into / out of this mess?
PB
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Good Point
Phil, good point but decisions come from the top, not the bottom.
It is my opinion knowing the history of PC that he bit off more than he could chew. You cannot and it is unfair to blame the staff, staff generally do as they are asked for fear of retribution. If you have a good boss you always go the extra mile.
Ask yourself why most of the post holders resigned before the writing was on the wall. Could it be beacuse they saw the incompetance and recklessness from above?
Staff make it work, bad bosses make it difficult especially when they do not understand the business, good bosses make it work and develop their staff not attack them with compromise agreements asking them to sign away their rights to any redundancy, holiday pay, pay in lieu of notice. This in my eyes would have set alarm bells ringing and looking for a change of career.
I rest my case.
It is my opinion knowing the history of PC that he bit off more than he could chew. You cannot and it is unfair to blame the staff, staff generally do as they are asked for fear of retribution. If you have a good boss you always go the extra mile.
Ask yourself why most of the post holders resigned before the writing was on the wall. Could it be beacuse they saw the incompetance and recklessness from above?
Staff make it work, bad bosses make it difficult especially when they do not understand the business, good bosses make it work and develop their staff not attack them with compromise agreements asking them to sign away their rights to any redundancy, holiday pay, pay in lieu of notice. This in my eyes would have set alarm bells ringing and looking for a change of career.
I rest my case.
Last edited by DC10 Heavy; 4th Jun 2008 at 19:57.