Club 328 in trouble????
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The losers are the people who have not been affected by situation and have no interest in the proceedings yet continue to spend their time reading a multiple page thread on the subject. . . . . . . . at 2:30 in the morning. 
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charterguy.
I know several of the people that you consider 'losers' and understand that they stayed on out of loyalty to the company and their colleagues. Professionalism I would call it, so you might like to refrain from abusing them.
Cash flow. Sometimes there's very good reason why money gets delayed and most reasonable people give the benefit of the doubt.
Might I also suggest that you take the time to read the thread before pitching in? Telling them it's time to start writing their CV's is no good, it all happened weeks ago. If you've any constructive advice to offer them I'm sure they'd love to have it.
I know several of the people that you consider 'losers' and understand that they stayed on out of loyalty to the company and their colleagues. Professionalism I would call it, so you might like to refrain from abusing them.
Originally Posted by charterguy
If he hasn't got the cash to pay you today, what makes you think he will have the cash tomorrow ?
Might I also suggest that you take the time to read the thread before pitching in? Telling them it's time to start writing their CV's is no good, it all happened weeks ago. If you've any constructive advice to offer them I'm sure they'd love to have it.
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All the people that stayed on, were hard working professionals who were supposedly "guaranteed" to be paid, but unfortunately PC went back on his word.
Luckily some of the people have landed on their feet, however, having been a screwed over individual myself, i can from experience say, suprise, that its not very nice!
Until you lose money/get put in this situation, then you know absolutely
all!
Well said Flintstone.
Luckily some of the people have landed on their feet, however, having been a screwed over individual myself, i can from experience say, suprise, that its not very nice!
Until you lose money/get put in this situation, then you know absolutely
all!Well said Flintstone.
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Cash flow is only important in companies that are not properly financed. If you have adequate cash resources to run your business, you wouldn't need to prepare a cash flow forecast !
The CAA need to apply 'airline style' financial fitness tests to 'executive charter' startups to prevent market traders like PC getting their hands on an AOC.
Whatever the dismerits of PC, at least he had the drive and energy to set up a company using (presumably) some of his own money, and employed some people for a while who might otherwise have been unemployed. If you make it impossible for startups to get off the ground, you end up with a very inefficient economy. Sometimes startups that scrape the rules at the beginning of their lives grow into very respectable companies - eg Virgin Atlantic.
I agree that it is a very unpleasant experience when your employer asks you to work without pay for a while in an attempt to get through a cash-flow crisis, but that is not illegal in the UK AFAIK (though it would be illegal in, say, France).
Companies go bust leaving debts to suppliers and employees regularly - certainly a very harrowing experience for all, but it is not illegal.
So has PC actually done anything illegal?
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I may be mistaken here, but he may well have traded illegally at the end.
You cannot continue to trade if you know your business to be insolvent. Since Plane Chartering were accepting bookings right until the last day even though they appear to have racked up more debts than they could pay, surely that is trading illegally?
Just an opinion and happy to be put right...
You cannot continue to trade if you know your business to be insolvent. Since Plane Chartering were accepting bookings right until the last day even though they appear to have racked up more debts than they could pay, surely that is trading illegally?
Just an opinion and happy to be put right...
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Only one other comment to make and that is ...........edited by moderator
Thanks for sharing your anatomical knowledge with us Dawn but we keep a somewhat more polite ship here. Kindly take a seat in the corner for a few days to cogitate.
Duck
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Thanks for sharing your anatomical knowledge with us Dawn but we keep a somewhat more polite ship here. Kindly take a seat in the corner for a few days to cogitate.
Duck
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DaybreakB
I hope as hell you wake up one day, and join the real world, otherwise sit on your TOR and enjoy the view.
LoL from Arthur's little helper from Tintagel via the Valleys XXXX
LoL from Arthur's little helper from Tintagel via the Valleys XXXX
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charterguy.
I'm impressed that you feel so protective of your crew but the point I'm making, and you seem to be deliberately ignoring, is that these people found themselves in a no-win position. Many of them already worked for 328 when PC came along. They had no say in their new employer.
When things got sticky they had no way of knowing for sure what he was up to. I said before that I had (fleeting) dealings with him on a freelance basis which allowed me to walk away, they never had that luxury. It's all very easy with 20/20 hindsight to belittle those who stayed on but frankly it comes across as unwarranted smugness. Many companies experience cash flow problems from time to time and waving your wallet merely rubs salt in their wounds. Should you ever find yourself needing the goodwill of employees I hope for your sake that you are able to call upon people like these rather than someone inclined to quit because their pay is late. Let's hope your bank never cause any hiccups in your payroll lest you find yourself crewless overnight.
Calling these professionals losers was uncalled for and you owe them an apology.
I'm impressed that you feel so protective of your crew but the point I'm making, and you seem to be deliberately ignoring, is that these people found themselves in a no-win position. Many of them already worked for 328 when PC came along. They had no say in their new employer.
When things got sticky they had no way of knowing for sure what he was up to. I said before that I had (fleeting) dealings with him on a freelance basis which allowed me to walk away, they never had that luxury. It's all very easy with 20/20 hindsight to belittle those who stayed on but frankly it comes across as unwarranted smugness. Many companies experience cash flow problems from time to time and waving your wallet merely rubs salt in their wounds. Should you ever find yourself needing the goodwill of employees I hope for your sake that you are able to call upon people like these rather than someone inclined to quit because their pay is late. Let's hope your bank never cause any hiccups in your payroll lest you find yourself crewless overnight.
Calling these professionals losers was uncalled for and you owe them an apology.
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CharterGuy,
Please do some research. In the UK, should you wish to set up an AOC now, you have to be able to prove to the CAA that you can support your operation for two years, without ANY revenue before licence issue.
PM escaped this really by buying an AOC. Oh, BTW i'm quite sure Mr. Crowther is still lying back in a life of luxury, quite able still to be able to prove the above if he gets his grubby mitts on another AOC outfit....after all, he is a so-called business man
They always have money.
I think it quite right that an apology be demanded for your crass stupidity in the actions of you putting your fingers to keys without processing the thoughts first!
SKP
CirrusF: Amazing PC like....quite a few usernames which such similar remarks, from such a defensive viewpoint. Nice bit about the legals of the UK compared to France.....tell me......when peoples livelyhoods are at stake, where the f does just legality come in to it??? This is primarily a morality issue! (Especially for those screwed over!)
Please do some research. In the UK, should you wish to set up an AOC now, you have to be able to prove to the CAA that you can support your operation for two years, without ANY revenue before licence issue.
PM escaped this really by buying an AOC. Oh, BTW i'm quite sure Mr. Crowther is still lying back in a life of luxury, quite able still to be able to prove the above if he gets his grubby mitts on another AOC outfit....after all, he is a so-called business man
They always have money.I think it quite right that an apology be demanded for your crass stupidity in the actions of you putting your fingers to keys without processing the thoughts first!
SKP
CirrusF: Amazing PC like....quite a few usernames which such similar remarks, from such a defensive viewpoint. Nice bit about the legals of the UK compared to France.....tell me......when peoples livelyhoods are at stake, where the f
does just legality come in to it??? This is primarily a morality issue! (Especially for those screwed over!)
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CirrusF: Amazing PC like....quite a few usernames which such similar remarks, from such a defensive viewpoint. Nice bit about the legals of the UK compared to France.....tell me......when peoples livelyhoods are at stake, where the f
does just legality come in to it??? This is primarily a morality issue! (Especially for those screwed over!)
does just legality come in to it??? This is primarily a morality issue! (Especially for those screwed over!)
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Cirrus F
I am all in favour of entrepreneurship. Successful entrepreneurs know how much money they will need and will ensure they have adequate funding in place. PC is not an entrepreneur, he is market trader, a wannabe. The CAA has failed in its duty to prevent the paying public from being ripped off by this chancer.
Flintstone
Not sure why I should apologise for other people’s naivety. If they want to work for nothing, they should work for a charity. At least they would be able to go home feeling that they have supported a good cause. I will say this again, if you don’t get paid for your work, get the hell out. You owe it to yourself (and your family) to find alternative ‘gainful’ employment. PC’s promises do not get you any credit at the local supermarket.
Only the lowest of the lowest steal money from their employees !!! I really hope that some of the ex-employees are able to point the receiver in the right direction to put this crook where he belongs.
I am all in favour of entrepreneurship. Successful entrepreneurs know how much money they will need and will ensure they have adequate funding in place. PC is not an entrepreneur, he is market trader, a wannabe. The CAA has failed in its duty to prevent the paying public from being ripped off by this chancer.
Flintstone
Not sure why I should apologise for other people’s naivety. If they want to work for nothing, they should work for a charity. At least they would be able to go home feeling that they have supported a good cause. I will say this again, if you don’t get paid for your work, get the hell out. You owe it to yourself (and your family) to find alternative ‘gainful’ employment. PC’s promises do not get you any credit at the local supermarket.
Only the lowest of the lowest steal money from their employees !!! I really hope that some of the ex-employees are able to point the receiver in the right direction to put this crook where he belongs.
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cg.
A remarkable lack of understanding of human nature on your part that an unkind person might say comes across as arrogance. I have worked for companies where a little give and take saw us through a sticky patch or two. Me not storming off in high dudgeon meant that they continued to trade, the company didn't fold, I kept my job, my family were fed and the supermarket got paid. Your black and white approach would have seen no latitude given, the company closed down and more people than just myself in the dole queue. What a depressing state of affairs.
In my experience most people do not subscribe to your views which I have to say makes the world a nicer place.
A remarkable lack of understanding of human nature on your part that an unkind person might say comes across as arrogance. I have worked for companies where a little give and take saw us through a sticky patch or two. Me not storming off in high dudgeon meant that they continued to trade, the company didn't fold, I kept my job, my family were fed and the supermarket got paid. Your black and white approach would have seen no latitude given, the company closed down and more people than just myself in the dole queue. What a depressing state of affairs.
In my experience most people do not subscribe to your views which I have to say makes the world a nicer place.
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Charterguy
As a member of the flight crew, I like many of the others, was bonded for a large sum of money. I had wanted to leave this job for a long time, but I could not afford to pay the bond. The debate as to whether these training bonds can stand up in court is irrelevant. I knew by leaving that I would probably be taken to court and I was not willing to take that risk.
No one at the company ever knowingly worked for free. At the end of May we were told we would not be paid for the work done during that month. With that came a feeling of anger at losing a months wages, two months duty pay and per diem (always paid a month in arears) and losing a month of job hunting time. I also had an overwhelming feeling of relief. Not being paid meant that the contract was broken and the training bond could go in the bin. At no time did I play the loyal fool.
I walked away to start again and have since signed an even bigger training bond. Such is the nature of the business.
No one at the company ever knowingly worked for free. At the end of May we were told we would not be paid for the work done during that month. With that came a feeling of anger at losing a months wages, two months duty pay and per diem (always paid a month in arears) and losing a month of job hunting time. I also had an overwhelming feeling of relief. Not being paid meant that the contract was broken and the training bond could go in the bin. At no time did I play the loyal fool.
I walked away to start again and have since signed an even bigger training bond. Such is the nature of the business.
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Does anyone know who now owns the 2 Dash 8's (serial no. 533 and 541) that did belong to CJS? Or where they are? I'm slightly confused that they appear to be mortgaged to 2 different banks from 2 different companies - and one mortgage was done from euromanx the day before the company went down.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help/clarify.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help/clarify.
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Club 328 (and its various guises of late, corporation and individual)
can anyone confirm that the spectre is still out there trying to do business in the UK ?? rumour or fact ? thick skin if this is the case and a shallow industry if continues to support after all of the reported dirty deeds to us that make a living out of this game.
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Why be honest? There's no point!
This is he: RentJets - Private Planes and Jet Charter, Charter Flights and Jet Charter Services on Private Charter Jets with or without Fractional Ownership costs
Amazing how our police, our laws, our CAA, and our legal system have no effect at all on this B......d who apparently is now splashing out on new cars for himself and the missus, and re-launching himself, obviously sans AOC this time - though maybe the CAA will give him another one for a £1...
... while hundreds of thousands of pounds of unpaid debts, including employee debt remain just that - unpaid...
Crime pays!!
Amazing how our police, our laws, our CAA, and our legal system have no effect at all on this B...
...d who apparently is now splashing out on new cars for himself and the missus, and re-launching himself, obviously sans AOC this time - though maybe the CAA will give him another one for a £1...... while hundreds of thousands of pounds of unpaid debts, including employee debt remain just that - unpaid...
Crime pays!!
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Well before you all get too excited, that's only a front page using the Avinode platform to get prices. It appears that he's going to be broking rather than operating, therefore no AOC (or indeed aircraft) required.