European Business Jets
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The start up plan was a loss for 3 years. This was based on fractional ownership. That most of the aircraft are now managed for owners not fractional should that not mean most costs are covered by management fees so where are the losses from?
Last edited by vref75; 17th Feb 2008 at 13:18.
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I used to work for EBJ. I left a year ago and work for another biz jet operator and so I can say I am both independant and have knowledge about the company.
There have been one or two problems at EBJ but most have been resolved and others are still being worked on and should soon be resolved. When I joined the flight ops director said it would be a good company for getting on in biz jets and if you see how well the ex-pilots have done he has been proved correct. I still believe it is a good company to join and with the XLS's there is a good progression in ac.
As for the losses, I was told when I joined that the business plan was for losses in the first 3 years (similar to netjets) and I believe they are improving each year in occordance to that plan. They would not be in a position for the new ac if not.
There have been one or two problems at EBJ but most have been resolved and others are still being worked on and should soon be resolved. When I joined the flight ops director said it would be a good company for getting on in biz jets and if you see how well the ex-pilots have done he has been proved correct. I still believe it is a good company to join and with the XLS's there is a good progression in ac.
As for the losses, I was told when I joined that the business plan was for losses in the first 3 years (similar to netjets) and I believe they are improving each year in occordance to that plan. They would not be in a position for the new ac if not.
Last edited by African Drunk; 17th Feb 2008 at 19:11.
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best of luck to EBJ, netjets europe have been able sustain losses in excess of 10 years due to the huge backing they have from nj US and Mr Buffet - anyone else following the same business plan must have kahunas of steel..!
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Is that the same NetJets that is STILL unable to turn in a profit....... after.....how many years??
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OK you lot,
I've read all this tread and am none the wiser.
I am looking for a new job so is EBJ worth a punt or not?
I'll put it to the vote. Reply either Yes or No.
So I lay my future at your toes and by your vote I shall abide
Col....
I've read all this tread and am none the wiser.
I am looking for a new job so is EBJ worth a punt or not?
I'll put it to the vote. Reply either Yes or No.
So I lay my future at your toes and by your vote I shall abide
Col....
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RAPA Pilot,
If you haven't yet got a jet job, then go for it, treat it as experience.
If you have already got a jet job, then I wouldn't bother, there are far better operators out there, all looking for crew......
If you haven't yet got a jet job, then go for it, treat it as experience.
If you have already got a jet job, then I wouldn't bother, there are far better operators out there, all looking for crew......
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We have had a massive change of staff and forging forward!!
The dead wood is gone so the futures bright to purple.
Rest of this post has been recycled. Advertising rates are reasonable on PPRuNe, just click on the link.
Duck
Moderator
Rest of this post has been recycled. Advertising rates are reasonable on PPRuNe, just click on the link.
Duck
Moderator
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Do EBJ take on low-hours people? I dropped in a CV a while ago but no joy so far; same lack of response from some of the other biz jet companies. Should I take the hint?! I'm willing to pay to be type-rated to give me a chance of getting my foot in the door.
Regards,
V-PJ
Regards,
V-PJ
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My EBJ experience.
Hi,
I have read all your posts with interest. I know a few of the names being thrown about and I would like to add my comments.
I used to work for EBJ flying the Citation XLS in Edinburgh and Guernsey. I was offered a permanent position but turned it down because I was being messed about, they got my name wrong on the contract, no one would give me a straight answer and I never got paid on time.
From what I know EBJ operate a CJ fleet and two XLS which are privately owned. One of the XLS is based at Edinburgh and the other is in Guernsey. At the time I was there they were talking about putting the XLS to work on charter operations but as I have not been there for a few months so I don't know if this is still the case.
My salary offer on the XLS as an FO was £28000 with £30 per diem for each duty day. I turned down the offer due to all the problems I was having with EBJ. Some of these problems were;
They only paid freelance pilots, which I was at the time, by cheque when other companies, paid by bank transfer. Even when I asked them to transfer my pay into my bank due to the pending mail strike they still sent it by mail, so as I was only working a few days per week the money I received was never enough to cover all my bills and expenses so I was unable to work at that time until I received my cheque and the funds cleared in my account. This did happen on another occasion and one of the chaps in opps paid for a hire car so that I could position to Biggin Hill.
I never received money on time and it took over 4 weeks at times have my expenses reimbursed, even though when I joined the company I was told that there had been a problem paying people on time but they promised that I would be paid on time.
£30 per diem is a little low most companies will have a maximum of £50 per overnight duty period, £10 for breakfast, £30 for lunch and £40, for dinner if returning home in the evening, or an increase to £50 for staying overnight.
Also as there was not enough crew to operate one XLS there was no stable roster and you would be expected to work your days off if you were asked to, which seems to still happen today.
A little information for people interested in the XLS operation.
On the XLS based in Edinburgh I flew to the following destinations. Biggin Hill to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Biggin Hill, Venice and Dublin. The Venice and Dublin trips were one offs at the time!
The XLS in Guernsey flew to a few more destinations, Exeter, RAF Shawbury, Manchester, Bournemouth and Southampton
Would I recommend anyone to work for EBJ, the answer is no!
They do have a large staff turnover and a lot of pilots are unhappy with EBJ.
They do have a bad reputation in the industry. I know people who still work for EBJ and the problems with EBJ are ongoing.
EBJ remains the only company that I have worked for who won’t always pay for the hotel room, but will reimburse the costs later.
Their roster is not stable and they do not have enough crew per aircraft to have a stable roster.
EBJ management are still making promises that either they know that can’t keep or just don’t care as long as they have pilots available.
The XLS job in Guernsey has been advertised for a long time so it tells me that either people who have 1000hrs won’t touch EBJ, or they can get a better deal elsewhere.
For the time being EBJ seems to be an unstable company and would be a company to avoid at the moment.
The above information is from my experience of the company as well as other pilots I know, who have shared their frustration with me.
If you just need to build your hours and don’t care about the above statement then apply to EBJ.
They might take low hours pilots as long as you have a type rating.
I hope this has brought some light on this subject.
I left EBJ out of choice and I have now been paid in full. I hope that they take on board what has been said and do something about it, but that might just be wishful thinking!
I have read all your posts with interest. I know a few of the names being thrown about and I would like to add my comments.
I used to work for EBJ flying the Citation XLS in Edinburgh and Guernsey. I was offered a permanent position but turned it down because I was being messed about, they got my name wrong on the contract, no one would give me a straight answer and I never got paid on time.
From what I know EBJ operate a CJ fleet and two XLS which are privately owned. One of the XLS is based at Edinburgh and the other is in Guernsey. At the time I was there they were talking about putting the XLS to work on charter operations but as I have not been there for a few months so I don't know if this is still the case.
My salary offer on the XLS as an FO was £28000 with £30 per diem for each duty day. I turned down the offer due to all the problems I was having with EBJ. Some of these problems were;
They only paid freelance pilots, which I was at the time, by cheque when other companies, paid by bank transfer. Even when I asked them to transfer my pay into my bank due to the pending mail strike they still sent it by mail, so as I was only working a few days per week the money I received was never enough to cover all my bills and expenses so I was unable to work at that time until I received my cheque and the funds cleared in my account. This did happen on another occasion and one of the chaps in opps paid for a hire car so that I could position to Biggin Hill.
I never received money on time and it took over 4 weeks at times have my expenses reimbursed, even though when I joined the company I was told that there had been a problem paying people on time but they promised that I would be paid on time.
£30 per diem is a little low most companies will have a maximum of £50 per overnight duty period, £10 for breakfast, £30 for lunch and £40, for dinner if returning home in the evening, or an increase to £50 for staying overnight.
Also as there was not enough crew to operate one XLS there was no stable roster and you would be expected to work your days off if you were asked to, which seems to still happen today.
A little information for people interested in the XLS operation.
On the XLS based in Edinburgh I flew to the following destinations. Biggin Hill to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Biggin Hill, Venice and Dublin. The Venice and Dublin trips were one offs at the time!
The XLS in Guernsey flew to a few more destinations, Exeter, RAF Shawbury, Manchester, Bournemouth and Southampton
Would I recommend anyone to work for EBJ, the answer is no!
They do have a large staff turnover and a lot of pilots are unhappy with EBJ.
They do have a bad reputation in the industry. I know people who still work for EBJ and the problems with EBJ are ongoing.
EBJ remains the only company that I have worked for who won’t always pay for the hotel room, but will reimburse the costs later.
Their roster is not stable and they do not have enough crew per aircraft to have a stable roster.
EBJ management are still making promises that either they know that can’t keep or just don’t care as long as they have pilots available.
The XLS job in Guernsey has been advertised for a long time so it tells me that either people who have 1000hrs won’t touch EBJ, or they can get a better deal elsewhere.
For the time being EBJ seems to be an unstable company and would be a company to avoid at the moment.
The above information is from my experience of the company as well as other pilots I know, who have shared their frustration with me.
If you just need to build your hours and don’t care about the above statement then apply to EBJ.
They might take low hours pilots as long as you have a type rating.
I hope this has brought some light on this subject.
I left EBJ out of choice and I have now been paid in full. I hope that they take on board what has been said and do something about it, but that might just be wishful thinking!
Last edited by ExcelXLS Driver; 4th May 2008 at 21:54.
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'unable to work until the cheque cleared in my account'
What does that mean?
Why UNABLE to work?
Once you left, all outstanding monies were paid, so where is your gripe exactly?
Good luck to you and your future employers.
What does that mean?
Why UNABLE to work?
Once you left, all outstanding monies were paid, so where is your gripe exactly?
Good luck to you and your future employers.
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Silverhawk, some people have the idea that if they don't get paid, they don't fly. I interpreted "unable to work" as "not willing to work...until I get paid". Can happen if people do not trust the person making the payments.
To me, ExcelXLS Driver's comments came across as fairly balanced and disillusioned without being too venemous. But then, I'm not feeling defensive about EBJ 
Once you left, all outstanding monies were paid, so where is your gripe exactly?
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Hi Silverhawk,
To explain my comment on being unable to work until my cheque cleared meant that I did not have the available funds to allow me to get to work and pay for fuel to get to the airport, parking which can be expensive, food when away from home and emergency funds should 1 day turn to 2 days work. I was based in Exeter so that I could position to Guernsey or Edinburgh on Flybe. I did have to drive to London on a few occasions and this did cost a few quid. Return trip in my car to Biggin Hill was about £100, plus I had to pay another £120 to drive to Cambridge for a 1 hour meeting with Mr PQ. When I drove to Farnborough to have an interview with TAG they reimbursed me the money I had spent on fuel to get there.
I am not out to say anything malicious towards EBJ or anyone, just what I have experienced and heard. I do not have any hard feelings about leaving, I was just a little disappointed and frustrated with what was happening. Some people in EBJ were very helpful and supportive, and I hope other people will have a better experience working for them.
From reading Flight international today EBJ are looking for an FO on a Falcon 2000LX and a FO for a Mustang in Dublin. They are paying 50,000 euros on the Falcon and 30,000 euros on the Mustang. EBJ will be managing these aircraft and they are operating them privately.
If anyone working for EBJ at the moment on the XLS fleet reads my post and thinks that it is now not entirely accurate I would appreciate a response or a private message.
To explain my comment on being unable to work until my cheque cleared meant that I did not have the available funds to allow me to get to work and pay for fuel to get to the airport, parking which can be expensive, food when away from home and emergency funds should 1 day turn to 2 days work. I was based in Exeter so that I could position to Guernsey or Edinburgh on Flybe. I did have to drive to London on a few occasions and this did cost a few quid. Return trip in my car to Biggin Hill was about £100, plus I had to pay another £120 to drive to Cambridge for a 1 hour meeting with Mr PQ. When I drove to Farnborough to have an interview with TAG they reimbursed me the money I had spent on fuel to get there.
I am not out to say anything malicious towards EBJ or anyone, just what I have experienced and heard. I do not have any hard feelings about leaving, I was just a little disappointed and frustrated with what was happening. Some people in EBJ were very helpful and supportive, and I hope other people will have a better experience working for them.
From reading Flight international today EBJ are looking for an FO on a Falcon 2000LX and a FO for a Mustang in Dublin. They are paying 50,000 euros on the Falcon and 30,000 euros on the Mustang. EBJ will be managing these aircraft and they are operating them privately.
If anyone working for EBJ at the moment on the XLS fleet reads my post and thinks that it is now not entirely accurate I would appreciate a response or a private message.
Last edited by ExcelXLS Driver; 4th May 2008 at 22:04.
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Hi there, Just to answer a couple of questions,
Flyer 2008,
Yes, PQ is still with EBJ.
And also yes, the privately owned CJ2 has been handed over to another operator to look after due to a number of factors on both sides.
But as the company has taken on an extra CJ2, 2 more CJ1's and a CJ2+ in the last couple of months, I for one am not at all concerned by this change. Especially as the new aircraft are being operated fully rather than only for an owner. Also as previously stated there are other new aircraft coming all the time. So yes....one out and lots in!
ExcelXLS Driver,
Can't comment on the XLS fleet as I'm on the CJ's, but I've been with the company since last summer and although there have been a couple of minor hickups with my expenses I have been (and still am) very happy working with them. I should also say that those problems were all experienced just after I joined last summer and everything has run smoothly with my pay and expenses for quite a few months now. As for hotel rooms.....only ever had to put them on my own card once (before I got a company card), they normally go on the company card or are paid for by the company.
Despite what some people have written on here, from my own experience of EBJ, yes I would recommend them as an employer to any of my friends.
Hope that helps answer some of the recent queries.
Flyer 2008,
Yes, PQ is still with EBJ.
And also yes, the privately owned CJ2 has been handed over to another operator to look after due to a number of factors on both sides.
But as the company has taken on an extra CJ2, 2 more CJ1's and a CJ2+ in the last couple of months, I for one am not at all concerned by this change. Especially as the new aircraft are being operated fully rather than only for an owner. Also as previously stated there are other new aircraft coming all the time. So yes....one out and lots in!
ExcelXLS Driver,
Can't comment on the XLS fleet as I'm on the CJ's, but I've been with the company since last summer and although there have been a couple of minor hickups with my expenses I have been (and still am) very happy working with them. I should also say that those problems were all experienced just after I joined last summer and everything has run smoothly with my pay and expenses for quite a few months now. As for hotel rooms.....only ever had to put them on my own card once (before I got a company card), they normally go on the company card or are paid for by the company.
Despite what some people have written on here, from my own experience of EBJ, yes I would recommend them as an employer to any of my friends.
Hope that helps answer some of the recent queries.
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word on the street has it that last month most credit cards were out of credit. Yesterday 22:57
Not the first month either ! How can you run a company on credit cards ? Credit limits are reached very quickly and unless you can clear them, you have to stop using them !!!
Not the first month either ! How can you run a company on credit cards ? Credit limits are reached very quickly and unless you can clear them, you have to stop using them !!!