From airline to BizJet - way to go
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From airline to BizJet - way to go
Hi guys/gals,
Been flying as an Airline Captain for the last 10 years - lots of hours as PIC (+10.000) and Instructor + all the extras - for many a dream position.....
However, Im so tired of flying a bus (Im on 737NG) and would love to switch career to the world of Bizjet.
I have applied for several positions, but I never get a call back. Is it so difficult for us airline guys to jump over the fence? Some of us are acctually very motivated and good at service. Furthermore, even some of us are in fact good operators!
How do you get the chance? Im only in the middle of my 40th´s...
Been flying as an Airline Captain for the last 10 years - lots of hours as PIC (+10.000) and Instructor + all the extras - for many a dream position.....
However, Im so tired of flying a bus (Im on 737NG) and would love to switch career to the world of Bizjet.
I have applied for several positions, but I never get a call back. Is it so difficult for us airline guys to jump over the fence? Some of us are acctually very motivated and good at service. Furthermore, even some of us are in fact good operators!
How do you get the chance? Im only in the middle of my 40th´s...
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I guess the question would have to be 'can you handle the lifestyle change?'...unless it's NetJets, my experience of rosters is that they really mean little in the BizJet World. It's a great place - but many airline guys struggle with the hanging around, constant schedule changes, washing up and baggage loading!!
Some years ago, it seemed a common practice for airline cv's to be round filed...don't know if that still happens??
Bon chance...what kind of jobs have you been applying for??
Some years ago, it seemed a common practice for airline cv's to be round filed...don't know if that still happens??
Bon chance...what kind of jobs have you been applying for??
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unfortunatly too many guys from the airlines have entered the bizjets and established the opinion that airline guys are for airlines and not for corporate flying. This is for sure not always true but if there is another option, even very low time, the bizjet operators will go for this.
I think Netjets is your best bet as there are many ex airline guys there and the above opinion is not the one of Netjets, however, neither is Netjets real corporate flying, its something in between
I think Netjets is your best bet as there are many ex airline guys there and the above opinion is not the one of Netjets, however, neither is Netjets real corporate flying, its something in between
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For what its worth, I'll pop my £0.02 in.
I've several friends who have attempted to make the jump however they look at their airbus 319/320's and say, "OK, it's that big, I want a biz jet that big or as close to..." so apply for G550's, Globals etc... Those aircraft will be doing alot of ultra long haul, unlike their mini-bus. So a more realistic type of flying ie. short haul would be found in; Citation XL, Bravo, Hawker 800, Learjet and Challengers. These aircraft offer great variety some even long haul to an extent, but it's a more realistic transition I feel, even just for the short term. It's a good learning experience dealing with the variety of passengers aswell before taking them into the depths of Asia and having to deal with quite complex issues.
I've several friends who have attempted to make the jump however they look at their airbus 319/320's and say, "OK, it's that big, I want a biz jet that big or as close to..." so apply for G550's, Globals etc... Those aircraft will be doing alot of ultra long haul, unlike their mini-bus. So a more realistic type of flying ie. short haul would be found in; Citation XL, Bravo, Hawker 800, Learjet and Challengers. These aircraft offer great variety some even long haul to an extent, but it's a more realistic transition I feel, even just for the short term. It's a good learning experience dealing with the variety of passengers aswell before taking them into the depths of Asia and having to deal with quite complex issues.
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Airline to Bizzz
Ok, let's see.
Let me give you an example and you will be able to judge ...
And this is real, this is what we did last week.
Day 1
Pick up the plane from minor Maintenance Dubai to Riyadh .... ferry
Day 2
Riyadh - Amman - Edinburgh. 8 pax - 11 pax
Day 3
Edinburgh - Bangor - Orlando. 11 pax
Day 4
Orlando - Gander - Basel. Ferry
Day 5
Basel - Riyadh. Ferry
Day 6
Riyadh - Amman - Frankfurt. 8 pax, 12 pax
Day 7
Frankfurt - Basel. Ferry
Now we are getting 2 days off, because we have to do the C. of A. inspection and then we will be going back to Riyadh to do Frankfurt -
London - Next day London - Durban (With a stop) ...
After every flight we have to help the hostie clean up, get the covers in place, thake care of the paperwork, make sure that the next flight is arranged, print the new Jepp. charts, update the computers, update the manuals onboard, (Flight plans, permits, etc.etc.) And ... well ... need some more info???
Keep it safe ..
Let me give you an example and you will be able to judge ...
And this is real, this is what we did last week.
Day 1
Pick up the plane from minor Maintenance Dubai to Riyadh .... ferry
Day 2
Riyadh - Amman - Edinburgh. 8 pax - 11 pax
Day 3
Edinburgh - Bangor - Orlando. 11 pax
Day 4
Orlando - Gander - Basel. Ferry
Day 5
Basel - Riyadh. Ferry
Day 6
Riyadh - Amman - Frankfurt. 8 pax, 12 pax
Day 7
Frankfurt - Basel. Ferry
Now we are getting 2 days off, because we have to do the C. of A. inspection and then we will be going back to Riyadh to do Frankfurt -
London - Next day London - Durban (With a stop) ...
After every flight we have to help the hostie clean up, get the covers in place, thake care of the paperwork, make sure that the next flight is arranged, print the new Jepp. charts, update the computers, update the manuals onboard, (Flight plans, permits, etc.etc.) And ... well ... need some more info???
Keep it safe ..
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Thanks guys,
I see that some of you are overworked, but so are the guys flying for Easy/Ryanair - I guess its the future for most of us.
I dont mind getting a typerating on a vacumcleaner. Would be nice with a clean aircraft for a chance.
I see that some of you are overworked, but so are the guys flying for Easy/Ryanair - I guess its the future for most of us.
I dont mind getting a typerating on a vacumcleaner. Would be nice with a clean aircraft for a chance.
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Opinion
Coming from airlines and fly general aviation...
Good points and bad points for us airline guys -
xxx
Been flying with airlines since 1968, ex PanAm and will retire soon from Aerolineas Argentinas. I suffered many layoffs and survived to fly as pilot with business jets on a part-time basis.
xxx
In the airlines, I am current as check captain/instructor on the old 747s, and had a career as captain 707, 727 and DC8s. Extensive worldwide experience, no need to say, with 22,000 hours. For business jets, I flew Learjets a lot, and flew right seat (sitting on my hands) in many other bizjets.
xxx
It appears that nowadays, general aviation operators call me for specific assignments, such as flying in areas outside of their experience, that is such as Russia (metric airspace and QFE altimeter procedures) or ask for my assistance because I am multilingual and could assist them outside of the airport dealing with other languages, or call me because they know that I have flown there... They also appreciate that I can position myself either for free, or with reduced airline employee staff tickets.
xxx
I cannot say that my "pairings" with some executive jet captains are very warm initially. They do not like having a co-pilot who potentially might know better (in the case of 727s as an example) than them. Who cares, I will raise the gear, handle the radios and press the ident button when needed. I dont need "stick time" and I will not provide them with dual instruction if they hired me as F/O...
xxx
Then, all of the general aviation operators imagine than airline captains all have a salary of US$ 200,000 a year, and own a BMW 750. Most of us are far away from that type of income and status symbol.
xxx
As I am soon to retire, I thought for some time to continue to fly as a free lance pilot in executive jets. I might consider, but dont expect me, at my age to crawl to the back of a Lear 31 to drag the two 100 kg bags required by the ladies for a short skiing weekend in Bariloche, or an overnight in Viña del Mar.
xxx
So, if you go from airline to executive jets, I would recommend you get hired to fly a type you are current with, and as captain. For me, accustomed to "steam power gages", all these new toys in modern jets are beyond me.
xxx
Happy contrails
Good points and bad points for us airline guys -
xxx
Been flying with airlines since 1968, ex PanAm and will retire soon from Aerolineas Argentinas. I suffered many layoffs and survived to fly as pilot with business jets on a part-time basis.
xxx
In the airlines, I am current as check captain/instructor on the old 747s, and had a career as captain 707, 727 and DC8s. Extensive worldwide experience, no need to say, with 22,000 hours. For business jets, I flew Learjets a lot, and flew right seat (sitting on my hands) in many other bizjets.
xxx
It appears that nowadays, general aviation operators call me for specific assignments, such as flying in areas outside of their experience, that is such as Russia (metric airspace and QFE altimeter procedures) or ask for my assistance because I am multilingual and could assist them outside of the airport dealing with other languages, or call me because they know that I have flown there... They also appreciate that I can position myself either for free, or with reduced airline employee staff tickets.
xxx
I cannot say that my "pairings" with some executive jet captains are very warm initially. They do not like having a co-pilot who potentially might know better (in the case of 727s as an example) than them. Who cares, I will raise the gear, handle the radios and press the ident button when needed. I dont need "stick time" and I will not provide them with dual instruction if they hired me as F/O...
xxx
Then, all of the general aviation operators imagine than airline captains all have a salary of US$ 200,000 a year, and own a BMW 750. Most of us are far away from that type of income and status symbol.
xxx
As I am soon to retire, I thought for some time to continue to fly as a free lance pilot in executive jets. I might consider, but dont expect me, at my age to crawl to the back of a Lear 31 to drag the two 100 kg bags required by the ladies for a short skiing weekend in Bariloche, or an overnight in Viña del Mar.
xxx
So, if you go from airline to executive jets, I would recommend you get hired to fly a type you are current with, and as captain. For me, accustomed to "steam power gages", all these new toys in modern jets are beyond me.
xxx
Happy contrails
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hallo BELARGUSA!
Now that I can talk to a experienced pilot who has seen both bizz and airline, I need to ask you what you think about the standard in the cockpit.
I am not even half experieced as you are and changed from 4 years airline as cpt. of a 35 seater jet to bizz aviation.(falcon 2000) The problem for me was not the change of "lifestyle", like closer contact to the pax or dealing with their wishes or carrieng their bags or having almost no rostering.
When I started in bizz aviation I was shoked about the poor standard in procedures, SOPS, recurrent training and CRM....
I am now in the second bizz company and so far they are at the same level regarding the standard.
Did you have the sam experience, or am I just too moch concentrated on those things??
Thanks
Now that I can talk to a experienced pilot who has seen both bizz and airline, I need to ask you what you think about the standard in the cockpit.
I am not even half experieced as you are and changed from 4 years airline as cpt. of a 35 seater jet to bizz aviation.(falcon 2000) The problem for me was not the change of "lifestyle", like closer contact to the pax or dealing with their wishes or carrieng their bags or having almost no rostering.
When I started in bizz aviation I was shoked about the poor standard in procedures, SOPS, recurrent training and CRM....
I am now in the second bizz company and so far they are at the same level regarding the standard.
Did you have the sam experience, or am I just too moch concentrated on those things??
Thanks
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I was an instructor-pilot, giving types and recurrent, ground-school and sim for a major manufacturer. We did our best to bully our charges into a professional method of operating, providing all of the support they needed to operate our products as safely as possible. Many of the crew were retired airline guys with millions of hours. As soon as we got in the real cockpit, 'many' crews got really casual, but many of these guys were from the old school where the captain did it all and the cojos talked on the radio. The captain stood at the ramp and said goodbye to the clients and the cojo humped bags.
These were the guys that I 'killed' in the sim on recurrent, the ones that I bullied into using their copilots, the ones that got the hardest CatIIs and the most difficult scenarios to try and shock them out of complacency.
There were challenges training Yak 40 drivers to glass cockpits, too, but I digress somewhat.
Then again, the really professional crews (frequently the 'private' drivers, as opposed to the charter guys) would turn up at recurrent with their own scenarios, their own difficult approaches and refuse all calls for beer after a session claiming study time and who constantly pushed harder, trying to improve their performance and being very harsh with themselves.
Anecdotal, obviously. I met some of the worst crews (very few, actually), and some of the very best. Remember that many crews in 'corporate' operate entirely self-sufficiently and some flexibility is necessary to respond to the difficulties of managing a flight.
Anyway, if your flight department is not operating at the highest level you need to make changes, either internally or find a better one. Also, going to the cheapest school isn't always a good idea, although the bean-counters are happy. Find a school that will respond to your requests and provide you with the best personalized service. If you go to Katmandu lots, maybe a scenario there makes more sense than a canned JFK.
These were the guys that I 'killed' in the sim on recurrent, the ones that I bullied into using their copilots, the ones that got the hardest CatIIs and the most difficult scenarios to try and shock them out of complacency.
There were challenges training Yak 40 drivers to glass cockpits, too, but I digress somewhat.
Then again, the really professional crews (frequently the 'private' drivers, as opposed to the charter guys) would turn up at recurrent with their own scenarios, their own difficult approaches and refuse all calls for beer after a session claiming study time and who constantly pushed harder, trying to improve their performance and being very harsh with themselves.
Anecdotal, obviously. I met some of the worst crews (very few, actually), and some of the very best. Remember that many crews in 'corporate' operate entirely self-sufficiently and some flexibility is necessary to respond to the difficulties of managing a flight.
Anyway, if your flight department is not operating at the highest level you need to make changes, either internally or find a better one. Also, going to the cheapest school isn't always a good idea, although the bean-counters are happy. Find a school that will respond to your requests and provide you with the best personalized service. If you go to Katmandu lots, maybe a scenario there makes more sense than a canned JFK.
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No criticism, but...
Hola gulfv -
xxx
Will try to answer as best as I can, much of my words are merely opinions. On one side, pilots with airlines are strictly pilots, no other duties but those directly related to the flying of the aircraft from A to B. Flying a bizjet can be quite different for pilots about their duties, especially taking care of the VIP type passengers they deal with. And that is where the main problem is.
xxx
REPORTING FOR FLIGHT and PREFLIGHT -
With the airline, I am reporting 90 minutes prior to scheduled departure, and my duty time starts at that time. I live 45 minutes from the airport. All flight documents are prepared by dispatchers, CFP, NOTAMS and MET reports, all that is applicable is ready, and the routes we fly are well known to us. I am still lucky to have a F/E. who will soon go to preflight the aircraft, verify its maintenance status, DMIs and fueling, so the F/O and myself can devote all our attention to the flight itself. Oftentimes, the flights are 11-12 hrs long. A quick word with the Senior F/A, as to what to expect.
With a bizjet, when do you report for flight...? 2 hrs or more in advance, as you will go to places you do not fly often to, and no dispatcher to help. You will get interrupted to see if the "special catering" for Mr. and Mrs. VIP is delivered, and insure that the Moët & Chandon is on ice as requested. So, your preflight is 15 minutes for flight operations, and 1 hour running to the aircraft on ramp to prepare the aircraft for passengers. Lucky if you have a F/A in your aircraft.
Finally, there will be 1 hour delay for the VIP passengers. The higher the VIP level, the longer they will be late.
xxx
FLYING FROM A to B...
With the airlines, we are well organized with check lists and SOPs, even though we seem to be informal. Remember we are 3 in the cockpit, with the F/E on operations frequency, and F/O dealing with ATC frequency. We are lucky to have 3 VHF radios, each crewmember got his, to listen to. Even in our 747-400 (2 pilot crew), our "cruise co-pilot" participates in procedures, so even though the aircraft is designed for 2 pilots, we have a 3rd pilot to share the departure duties.
With a bizjet, each flight seems to be a "new experience"... with no prior training.
Obviously, with a bizjet, your trip might involve a fuel stop before you will reach your destination. Same care of the VIP passengers at each stop. So you have to rush to file flight plans, and order fuel, and GPU for air conditioning or start... And smile at your VIPs, and provide them with their many requests.
xxx
ARRIVAL AT DESTINATION...
With the airlines, we are considered OFF duty 30 minutes after arrival at the gate. Customs and immigration is easy, just a wait for the crew bus to the hotel, where we are known. A quick shower, and a beer at the bar with the crew is the debriefing.
With a bizjet, you have first to take care of the VIPs and their limousine, and their baggage, then clean the cabin, secure the aircraft (engine covers) and not forget that your battery switch was left ON... All that might take 60 or 90 minutes. You might not even know which hotel you go to. And all is closed there at that time of the night for a last meal. Your debriefing beer will be found in the aircraft (if some is left), while you clean the ashtrays.
xxx
CRITICISM of PROCEDURES and SOPs...
In general aviation, quality recurrent training is available... i.e. Flight Safety, but very expensive, and not tailored to each operator. I understand that 1 hour of simulator time (Learjet) is triple price of 1 hour of 747 simulator... I have flown with private jets where NO check-list was actually performed. All is "hurry-up to the runway" to look "efficient".
xxx
Having instructed in Learjet 20 Series for type ratings, I had learned to actually memorize a quick training before-takeoff and landing check-list as I was alone with a student. This applies to ALL JETs.
I call it the "3 killers"... Before takeoff check list for me is...
(1) Trim (2) Flaps (3) Spoilers (speed brakes)...
I might have disregarded all the items, but I swear to you, your chances of surviving the takeoff are good if you observe the 3 killers. Forgetting the transponder, or seat belt sign, or even ignition is not likely to make you crash. And it works in all jets I know well, 707, 727, 747 or DC8s.
Every time I line-up on a runway, in a 747, at 377,500 kilos, I recite my 3 killers. It saved my life, possibly twice in my career, even though the check-lists were supposedly completed.
xxx
I remember a Learjet operator having disabled a red "LOW FUEL" light in the annunciator panel (as it is in view of passengers), merely an indication that the fuel in a wing tank is below a certain level. A safety warning... but you still might have plenty of fuel to complete the flight...
xxx
Another objection I heard from GA bizjet F/Os, is that they get little or no practice for takeoff and landings. In GA bizjets, captains often fly every leg, whereas in the airlines, we share the PF and PNF sectors equally. For me, I barely get 3 or 4 landings monthly in the 747 and worse if I do instruction or check flights. In bizjets, you fly 20 or 30 landings each month. Why not giving your F/Os some practice in handling the aircraft. How can you expect upgrading anyone...? Give them the left hand seat on ferry legs if your aircraft has full dual controls and steering and ideal VMC conditions. In doing so, you do not infringe on any regulation (except company policies if they are stupid to have such a rule).
xxx
Airline or bizjets is not a change of lifestyle to me. Parking at "gate 18" or "Jet Aviation FBO" is no different. Our friend Scandinavian as a 737NG captain will learn fast to fly a BBJ... same airplane, except maybe the extra fuel tanks. And for me, taking a break in flying a 747 and shaking hands with some passengers is no different from flying Miss Soledad Pastorutti in a Learjet, serving her a glass of red wine, and being invited to her next concert.
xxx
What is missing in GA is FBOs with full handling support. Pilots are busy flying from A to B... There should be more in "handling" at FBOs than buying fuel and catering. There should be baggage handlers, GPU immediately available, and processing of flight plans or customs/immigration.
xxx
Sorry I wrote a lot, but you asked for my opinion...
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
Will try to answer as best as I can, much of my words are merely opinions. On one side, pilots with airlines are strictly pilots, no other duties but those directly related to the flying of the aircraft from A to B. Flying a bizjet can be quite different for pilots about their duties, especially taking care of the VIP type passengers they deal with. And that is where the main problem is.
xxx
REPORTING FOR FLIGHT and PREFLIGHT -
With the airline, I am reporting 90 minutes prior to scheduled departure, and my duty time starts at that time. I live 45 minutes from the airport. All flight documents are prepared by dispatchers, CFP, NOTAMS and MET reports, all that is applicable is ready, and the routes we fly are well known to us. I am still lucky to have a F/E. who will soon go to preflight the aircraft, verify its maintenance status, DMIs and fueling, so the F/O and myself can devote all our attention to the flight itself. Oftentimes, the flights are 11-12 hrs long. A quick word with the Senior F/A, as to what to expect.
With a bizjet, when do you report for flight...? 2 hrs or more in advance, as you will go to places you do not fly often to, and no dispatcher to help. You will get interrupted to see if the "special catering" for Mr. and Mrs. VIP is delivered, and insure that the Moët & Chandon is on ice as requested. So, your preflight is 15 minutes for flight operations, and 1 hour running to the aircraft on ramp to prepare the aircraft for passengers. Lucky if you have a F/A in your aircraft.
Finally, there will be 1 hour delay for the VIP passengers. The higher the VIP level, the longer they will be late.
xxx
FLYING FROM A to B...
With the airlines, we are well organized with check lists and SOPs, even though we seem to be informal. Remember we are 3 in the cockpit, with the F/E on operations frequency, and F/O dealing with ATC frequency. We are lucky to have 3 VHF radios, each crewmember got his, to listen to. Even in our 747-400 (2 pilot crew), our "cruise co-pilot" participates in procedures, so even though the aircraft is designed for 2 pilots, we have a 3rd pilot to share the departure duties.
With a bizjet, each flight seems to be a "new experience"... with no prior training.
Obviously, with a bizjet, your trip might involve a fuel stop before you will reach your destination. Same care of the VIP passengers at each stop. So you have to rush to file flight plans, and order fuel, and GPU for air conditioning or start... And smile at your VIPs, and provide them with their many requests.
xxx
ARRIVAL AT DESTINATION...
With the airlines, we are considered OFF duty 30 minutes after arrival at the gate. Customs and immigration is easy, just a wait for the crew bus to the hotel, where we are known. A quick shower, and a beer at the bar with the crew is the debriefing.
With a bizjet, you have first to take care of the VIPs and their limousine, and their baggage, then clean the cabin, secure the aircraft (engine covers) and not forget that your battery switch was left ON... All that might take 60 or 90 minutes. You might not even know which hotel you go to. And all is closed there at that time of the night for a last meal. Your debriefing beer will be found in the aircraft (if some is left), while you clean the ashtrays.
xxx
CRITICISM of PROCEDURES and SOPs...
In general aviation, quality recurrent training is available... i.e. Flight Safety, but very expensive, and not tailored to each operator. I understand that 1 hour of simulator time (Learjet) is triple price of 1 hour of 747 simulator... I have flown with private jets where NO check-list was actually performed. All is "hurry-up to the runway" to look "efficient".
xxx
Having instructed in Learjet 20 Series for type ratings, I had learned to actually memorize a quick training before-takeoff and landing check-list as I was alone with a student. This applies to ALL JETs.
I call it the "3 killers"... Before takeoff check list for me is...
(1) Trim (2) Flaps (3) Spoilers (speed brakes)...
I might have disregarded all the items, but I swear to you, your chances of surviving the takeoff are good if you observe the 3 killers. Forgetting the transponder, or seat belt sign, or even ignition is not likely to make you crash. And it works in all jets I know well, 707, 727, 747 or DC8s.
Every time I line-up on a runway, in a 747, at 377,500 kilos, I recite my 3 killers. It saved my life, possibly twice in my career, even though the check-lists were supposedly completed.
xxx
I remember a Learjet operator having disabled a red "LOW FUEL" light in the annunciator panel (as it is in view of passengers), merely an indication that the fuel in a wing tank is below a certain level. A safety warning... but you still might have plenty of fuel to complete the flight...
xxx
Another objection I heard from GA bizjet F/Os, is that they get little or no practice for takeoff and landings. In GA bizjets, captains often fly every leg, whereas in the airlines, we share the PF and PNF sectors equally. For me, I barely get 3 or 4 landings monthly in the 747 and worse if I do instruction or check flights. In bizjets, you fly 20 or 30 landings each month. Why not giving your F/Os some practice in handling the aircraft. How can you expect upgrading anyone...? Give them the left hand seat on ferry legs if your aircraft has full dual controls and steering and ideal VMC conditions. In doing so, you do not infringe on any regulation (except company policies if they are stupid to have such a rule).
xxx
Airline or bizjets is not a change of lifestyle to me. Parking at "gate 18" or "Jet Aviation FBO" is no different. Our friend Scandinavian as a 737NG captain will learn fast to fly a BBJ... same airplane, except maybe the extra fuel tanks. And for me, taking a break in flying a 747 and shaking hands with some passengers is no different from flying Miss Soledad Pastorutti in a Learjet, serving her a glass of red wine, and being invited to her next concert.
xxx
What is missing in GA is FBOs with full handling support. Pilots are busy flying from A to B... There should be more in "handling" at FBOs than buying fuel and catering. There should be baggage handlers, GPU immediately available, and processing of flight plans or customs/immigration.
xxx
Sorry I wrote a lot, but you asked for my opinion...
xxx
Happy contrails
Whatever happens,.. happens!
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BelArgUSA;
Very enjoyable posts, not often do we get a balanced view!
Like you I am near retirement from the airlines, of course the recent change in retirement age has changed "imminent" to near. I also wanted to go back to GA flying but had no luck in getting my foot into the door, despite expressing a willingness to consider getting a type rating, no hesitation to relocating and being bi-lingual and multiple citizenship holder. Maybe I'm over----- something, but when you get near my age you will have done a few things in life!
Instead I went into management, SMS, FOQA that kind of thing and it is a lot of work, eats up much of my free time. Now I fly about 40hrs a month and the rest in the office.
Right now I still fly both round dial and glass, both of which I enjoy, I do miss the 727's, of the transport jets I have flown it was my favorite.
I suppose I could go to India or Japan for a change of scenery, but I am not sure it is worth it, probably wouldn't get enough time-off to do much sightseeing anyway. Perhaps I should just go and visit those places.
Life goes on!
fluf
Very enjoyable posts, not often do we get a balanced view!
Like you I am near retirement from the airlines, of course the recent change in retirement age has changed "imminent" to near. I also wanted to go back to GA flying but had no luck in getting my foot into the door, despite expressing a willingness to consider getting a type rating, no hesitation to relocating and being bi-lingual and multiple citizenship holder. Maybe I'm over----- something, but when you get near my age you will have done a few things in life!
Instead I went into management, SMS, FOQA that kind of thing and it is a lot of work, eats up much of my free time. Now I fly about 40hrs a month and the rest in the office.
Right now I still fly both round dial and glass, both of which I enjoy, I do miss the 727's, of the transport jets I have flown it was my favorite.
I suppose I could go to India or Japan for a change of scenery, but I am not sure it is worth it, probably wouldn't get enough time-off to do much sightseeing anyway. Perhaps I should just go and visit those places.
Life goes on!
fluf
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Daddy: "what's an SOP"
The situation re corporate has been 99.9% identified.
The lack of rosters is not normally a problem, as these can be created with hindsight quite well. (Hindsight being a well used GA flight planning computer package).
BelArgUSA, sums up the USA situation very well, and highlights the main areas of European, Middle East and Russian operational problems.
A 2 hour delay in considered an on time departure.
Currently 17 changes in 24 hours is my record, all in the sterile post flight, and then pre flight rest periods.
My Captain, (ex airline, 62 years old) is totally responsable for activation all these changes. I am contract freelance on this aircraft.
We arrive at our destination, to find that no one bothered to prepay the fuel, handling, hotel.......etc......etc.....so we spend 2 hours resolving this. Our duty time sheet, showing 30 mins.
The VIP thinks he has left his passport, in the aircraft...so at midnight its off to the airport, to confirm that is is in his jacket pocket. In the pile of bags he did not need at this stop.
This operation has no CA, as the owner knows how to boil a kettle, and brings his own catering.
Last week we were almost at the departure hold, and he asked us to return to the terminal as we had left his bags behind....His bas comprised 40 boxes of fresh fruit. no stowage, so just piled up in the cabin. The take off briefing included the expression " if we have to stop the take off for any reason the baggage will remove your heads". As it happens we had wake turbulance and one box did attain 2 seconds of zero G time.
I also remember a pilot who covered the aux tanks gauges on a PA31, because it might frighten the passengers.
The best thing that could even happen to GA VVIP, and it is outhtere, is the common decency to realise by the passengers, that the crew are responsable for thei lives, and should be treated with respect.
Corporate aircraft are sold to clients on flexiability, but sometimes it does take the P1ss.
How much humility does it take to phone the crew 4 hours before scheduled departure to say....DELAY.
Take care out there..
727: a vacuum cleaner, next it will be a shift stick.........
glf
The lack of rosters is not normally a problem, as these can be created with hindsight quite well. (Hindsight being a well used GA flight planning computer package).
BelArgUSA, sums up the USA situation very well, and highlights the main areas of European, Middle East and Russian operational problems.
A 2 hour delay in considered an on time departure.
Currently 17 changes in 24 hours is my record, all in the sterile post flight, and then pre flight rest periods.
My Captain, (ex airline, 62 years old) is totally responsable for activation all these changes. I am contract freelance on this aircraft.
We arrive at our destination, to find that no one bothered to prepay the fuel, handling, hotel.......etc......etc.....so we spend 2 hours resolving this. Our duty time sheet, showing 30 mins.
The VIP thinks he has left his passport, in the aircraft...so at midnight its off to the airport, to confirm that is is in his jacket pocket. In the pile of bags he did not need at this stop.
This operation has no CA, as the owner knows how to boil a kettle, and brings his own catering.
Last week we were almost at the departure hold, and he asked us to return to the terminal as we had left his bags behind....His bas comprised 40 boxes of fresh fruit. no stowage, so just piled up in the cabin. The take off briefing included the expression " if we have to stop the take off for any reason the baggage will remove your heads". As it happens we had wake turbulance and one box did attain 2 seconds of zero G time.
I also remember a pilot who covered the aux tanks gauges on a PA31, because it might frighten the passengers.
The best thing that could even happen to GA VVIP, and it is outhtere, is the common decency to realise by the passengers, that the crew are responsable for thei lives, and should be treated with respect.
Corporate aircraft are sold to clients on flexiability, but sometimes it does take the P1ss.
How much humility does it take to phone the crew 4 hours before scheduled departure to say....DELAY.
Take care out there..
727: a vacuum cleaner, next it will be a shift stick.........
glf
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Europe
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Scandinavian,
Do yourself a big favor and apply to Netjets. You can live where you want in Europe (good selection of domiciles), you can fly jets to exotic and ever-changing locations and you can meet interesting people (vs. the cheap pax flying Easy/Ryan). Give Netjets a go - it just may be what you are looking for and I think you will be less bored. Netjets isn't perfect by any stretch from what I have heard, but its last contract and its huge order book of brand new biz jets certainly helps...
Netjets Netjets Netjets Netjets Netjets Netjets... Do it.
Do yourself a big favor and apply to Netjets. You can live where you want in Europe (good selection of domiciles), you can fly jets to exotic and ever-changing locations and you can meet interesting people (vs. the cheap pax flying Easy/Ryan). Give Netjets a go - it just may be what you are looking for and I think you will be less bored. Netjets isn't perfect by any stretch from what I have heard, but its last contract and its huge order book of brand new biz jets certainly helps...
Netjets Netjets Netjets Netjets Netjets Netjets... Do it.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I agree that conditions should be read first. However, consider that Netjets has improved its conditions recently and it is growing very quickly. After reading Scandinavian's story, I just believe that Netjets could be a good fit for someone who is looking for a good airline alternative (understanding that the starting pay might not be that great - although it improves over time of course). I don't fly for Netjets but I will likely apply sooner than later.
Point is that the situation at Netjets has improved. Why not give it a go? Perhaps you even get lucky and find yourself in a Falcon 7X flying to some exotic location one day...
Point is that the situation at Netjets has improved. Why not give it a go? Perhaps you even get lucky and find yourself in a Falcon 7X flying to some exotic location one day...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
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Exotic locations in a Bravo.......
If you join Netjets now you have about 750 girls and guys that are ahead of you to join the 7X......so many, many..................many years before you MIGHT have a go.................lots of bravo's and 400's however.....As said before, think.......and think....again
B-767
Apache for HEMS - Strafe those Survivors!
Join Date: Jan 2001
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and lots and lots of Hawker 750 (HS 125-800 series, collins pro-line 21, minus ventral tank) coming in the next few years, and the Hawker is a nice aircraft.
Just my 2pence worth
Just my 2pence worth