NJE Suspend Another Captain
Join Date: May 2007
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As the nominated commander of the aircraft with the paycheck comes responsibility and accountability. Whatever goes wrong during your tour, at the end of the day the buck stops with you.
People make mistakes, that's just how it is. Go to Lisbon for your tea & no bickies session, put your hand up and say "we cocked up how do we learn from this" and move on. By pointing fingers or making excuses all you are doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself.
People make mistakes, that's just how it is. Go to Lisbon for your tea & no bickies session, put your hand up and say "we cocked up how do we learn from this" and move on. By pointing fingers or making excuses all you are doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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What Does the SOP say?
What does the SOP or Ops manual say.
The NJME policy was that the NF pilot was required to do the walkaround and the FP the cockpit setup. There was no requirement for the captain to do both.
How can the Captain of the day be held responsible for the actions of the action required by SOP of another captain.
The Captain responsible for "everything" harks back to the days when the Captain was king and the guy in the right seat just shut up and operated the radio.....no?
My tuppunce worth!
Cheers
The NJME policy was that the NF pilot was required to do the walkaround and the FP the cockpit setup. There was no requirement for the captain to do both.
How can the Captain of the day be held responsible for the actions of the action required by SOP of another captain.
The Captain responsible for "everything" harks back to the days when the Captain was king and the guy in the right seat just shut up and operated the radio.....no?
My tuppunce worth!
Cheers
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Signature is liability....
our Daily log has two spaces one for the preflight one for the acceptance of the flight, the person who does the preflight signs the space and therefore is held accountable for future cock-ups...
Whatever the story after this, the one who sign is responsible; being too nice and signing on behalf does not make any good to anybody.
our Daily log has two spaces one for the preflight one for the acceptance of the flight, the person who does the preflight signs the space and therefore is held accountable for future cock-ups...
Whatever the story after this, the one who sign is responsible; being too nice and signing on behalf does not make any good to anybody.
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kent be true
If the commander is not the one responsible for the entire operation why would they pay you 30-40% more than the other guy.
If taking the money and blaming others is your idea of leadership you are in the wrong business my friend.
If the commander is not the one responsible for the entire operation why would they pay you 30-40% more than the other guy.
If taking the money and blaming others is your idea of leadership you are in the wrong business my friend.
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inciter
regarding the kent be true posting i think you do not right to him, for my understanding the sense is: Both crewmembers are a professional team and each of them has to trust the other, if we check everything twice we have to create a checklist for the checklist, hope you understand what i am meaning, regards.
regarding the kent be true posting i think you do not right to him, for my understanding the sense is: Both crewmembers are a professional team and each of them has to trust the other, if we check everything twice we have to create a checklist for the checklist, hope you understand what i am meaning, regards.
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Austrian,
I understand exactly what you mean.
After an incident though in front of the review board the captain has to present his case and at the end accept full responsibility.
The board will then review all facts and decide whether the commander was directly responsible or not.
I did my time with NJE and I know for a fact that most of the senior guys in Training and Standards in particular are very fair and down the line.
I understand exactly what you mean.
After an incident though in front of the review board the captain has to present his case and at the end accept full responsibility.
The board will then review all facts and decide whether the commander was directly responsible or not.
I did my time with NJE and I know for a fact that most of the senior guys in Training and Standards in particular are very fair and down the line.
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Inciter,
I think as Austrian71 says, you misunderstand me.
The Captain should accept one hundred per cent responsible for the operation of the aircraft and for the operation of the crew. S/He is a manger, possibly being paid 30-40% more than other crew members, although not in this case, and as such must accept responsibility for crew and their actions. However, s/he cannot be held responsible for errors made outside of his / her control.
If the Captain has to assume responsibility for every action on or outside the aircraft, then we are going back to the days where the Captain does everything and the rhs sits there and shuts up. Not ideal.
Interestingly in fact in your next post you support me directly contradicting your response.
"After an incident though in front of the review board the captain has to present his case and at the end accept full responsibility.
The board will then review all facts and decide whether the commander was directly responsible or not."
So does the Captain take FULL responsibility or not?
As for the comment:
"If taking the money and blaming others is your idea of leadership you are in the wrong business my friend."
Never done it, never will, so I will assume that just comes from your handle.
Take care and fly safe
I think as Austrian71 says, you misunderstand me.
The Captain should accept one hundred per cent responsible for the operation of the aircraft and for the operation of the crew. S/He is a manger, possibly being paid 30-40% more than other crew members, although not in this case, and as such must accept responsibility for crew and their actions. However, s/he cannot be held responsible for errors made outside of his / her control.
If the Captain has to assume responsibility for every action on or outside the aircraft, then we are going back to the days where the Captain does everything and the rhs sits there and shuts up. Not ideal.
Interestingly in fact in your next post you support me directly contradicting your response.
"After an incident though in front of the review board the captain has to present his case and at the end accept full responsibility.
The board will then review all facts and decide whether the commander was directly responsible or not."
So does the Captain take FULL responsibility or not?
As for the comment:
"If taking the money and blaming others is your idea of leadership you are in the wrong business my friend."
Never done it, never will, so I will assume that just comes from your handle.
Take care and fly safe
Last edited by Kent BeTrue; 23rd May 2007 at 13:14. Reason: Wording
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Inciter,
Not at all.... Responsibility has a place in aviation... Blame does not.
That was my point.
I think we agree from other sides of the arguement.
Be Safe
Not at all.... Responsibility has a place in aviation... Blame does not.
That was my point.
I think we agree from other sides of the arguement.
Be Safe
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austrian71 Sorry , u r right, mixed up the thread, forgive me after my 4th glass of red wine, but itīs worth to celebrate !
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Listen son, if you are not even able to post on the right thread because you are already drunk, I am afraid your line training will take a long long time. Drop the glass and think that people outside the company may look into the posts.
Thank you.
Thank you.
