biz jet type rating
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think about the C525
I know a guy in the same position who self funded a type rating on the c525.
he is now working for centreline out of eggd where he is paid well gaining jet time and will be very employable for heavier equipment in a year or so.
the type rating is available in germany at around £8k
the c525 is a good starting point as there are many varients included in the same tr, and lots of european operators.
centreline have a second cj to crew and are looking for more fo,s
he is now working for centreline out of eggd where he is paid well gaining jet time and will be very employable for heavier equipment in a year or so.
the type rating is available in germany at around £8k
the c525 is a good starting point as there are many varients included in the same tr, and lots of european operators.
centreline have a second cj to crew and are looking for more fo,s
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Roja
You are extremely dilusional those good times you speak of are here at the moment,finding a first job has never been this easy believe me! If you'd been looking for a job in 1993/4/5 you'd be in an even more difficult situation trust me I was there things turned around towards the end of the ninties and have improved steadily since. Paying for type ratings just to get that first job will have a downward force on terms and conditions which will affect you guys much more than me.(only got about 12 years to go)
Salaries today are,in real terms that is around 50% of what they were 20 years ago. A friend of mine driving trains for South West trains earns as much as a first officer at some of the loco's and doesn't work as hard or as long! You only have to look at the lifestyles of the current BA retiree's and compare what a current new hire can look forward to,to see what I mean.
Still you comit proffesional suicde if you like its your call!
You are extremely dilusional those good times you speak of are here at the moment,finding a first job has never been this easy believe me! If you'd been looking for a job in 1993/4/5 you'd be in an even more difficult situation trust me I was there things turned around towards the end of the ninties and have improved steadily since. Paying for type ratings just to get that first job will have a downward force on terms and conditions which will affect you guys much more than me.(only got about 12 years to go)
Salaries today are,in real terms that is around 50% of what they were 20 years ago. A friend of mine driving trains for South West trains earns as much as a first officer at some of the loco's and doesn't work as hard or as long! You only have to look at the lifestyles of the current BA retiree's and compare what a current new hire can look forward to,to see what I mean.
Still you comit proffesional suicde if you like its your call!
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Hi
Hello
Ok ! so the good times are here are they ? well instead of bangin on about all the shouldnt pay for TR malarky, please tell us who will hire and pay for the TR for a guy with at 42 and 290hrs ?
In many cases the airlines still want you to stump up a good wad of cash to pay for most if not all of your own TR
Granted that going out and getting yourself a TR on a 737 or the like's and having no job at the end of it is absolute madness, as your not trained to an airlines particular SOP's.
I do agree that we are at a good time in aviation, with a relatively large amount of jobs available for Fo's, but there are far more wannabes than there are jobs right now, so the wannabes with the "quality" hours get the jobs.
Mildly amused : where in Germany did your friend get his C525 rating for 8K, was it done in the aircraft or a sim ?
dfs : I would think that if you got yourself a C525 rating and worked as an FO, you could expect 25k per year, depending on the company you work for the hrs could be between 200-600, as I already mentioned the Bravo rating would probably be better for you, no sure what salary to expect on one of them but i dont think it would be much more than already stated.
Roja
Ok ! so the good times are here are they ? well instead of bangin on about all the shouldnt pay for TR malarky, please tell us who will hire and pay for the TR for a guy with at 42 and 290hrs ?
In many cases the airlines still want you to stump up a good wad of cash to pay for most if not all of your own TR
Granted that going out and getting yourself a TR on a 737 or the like's and having no job at the end of it is absolute madness, as your not trained to an airlines particular SOP's.
I do agree that we are at a good time in aviation, with a relatively large amount of jobs available for Fo's, but there are far more wannabes than there are jobs right now, so the wannabes with the "quality" hours get the jobs.
Mildly amused : where in Germany did your friend get his C525 rating for 8K, was it done in the aircraft or a sim ?
dfs : I would think that if you got yourself a C525 rating and worked as an FO, you could expect 25k per year, depending on the company you work for the hrs could be between 200-600, as I already mentioned the Bravo rating would probably be better for you, no sure what salary to expect on one of them but i dont think it would be much more than already stated.
Roja
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Roja,
It will allways be difficult to get that first job regardless of how good the good times are 1988/9 was exeptional many pilots got their first break then and many bought type rating and only ended up with a large debt!
dfspilot,
check your pm's!
It will allways be difficult to get that first job regardless of how good the good times are 1988/9 was exeptional many pilots got their first break then and many bought type rating and only ended up with a large debt!
dfspilot,
check your pm's!
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unablereqnavperf - Given your obvious familiarity with the industry and your position as a recruiter within it, I'm surprised at how firm and dogmatic your position regarding self-funded type ratings is. However, to be fair, you certainly are not alone in your view.
I appreciate your argument and applaud your advice to go out and get speaking to the right people, however I think it's flawed - I've said before I'm sure, that a large part of getting the first job is luck - so by its very nature it's uncertain. I hope you'd agree that this industry is one where aptitude and talent only count for so much, the rest being a roll of the dice.
So faced with the prospect of continued unemployment, and ones experience commensurate with age diminishing daily - is it not unreasonable for someone to pay for a rating even to the possible eventual detriment of their future colleagues and themselves?
Being a recruiter I'm sure you'll agree that 99% of the job of a professional pilot involves playing within the rules and existing structures of aviation - it's really no different for someone looking for their break. At least within a company there is a recognisable, somewhat coherent group of people with shared interests and needs - but no necessarily so when outside of one. So despite what is I'm sure a noble sentiment, your complaints I'm afraid will remain exactly that. People will give themselves every advantage to progress in life, regardless. They're even more likely to do this when they have no close-knit grouping of which to be part - and I've got to say, I think it's entirely reasonable of them
Cheers
I appreciate your argument and applaud your advice to go out and get speaking to the right people, however I think it's flawed - I've said before I'm sure, that a large part of getting the first job is luck - so by its very nature it's uncertain. I hope you'd agree that this industry is one where aptitude and talent only count for so much, the rest being a roll of the dice.
So faced with the prospect of continued unemployment, and ones experience commensurate with age diminishing daily - is it not unreasonable for someone to pay for a rating even to the possible eventual detriment of their future colleagues and themselves?
Being a recruiter I'm sure you'll agree that 99% of the job of a professional pilot involves playing within the rules and existing structures of aviation - it's really no different for someone looking for their break. At least within a company there is a recognisable, somewhat coherent group of people with shared interests and needs - but no necessarily so when outside of one. So despite what is I'm sure a noble sentiment, your complaints I'm afraid will remain exactly that. People will give themselves every advantage to progress in life, regardless. They're even more likely to do this when they have no close-knit grouping of which to be part - and I've got to say, I think it's entirely reasonable of them
Cheers
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Ho hum.. if you really want to fly a shiney jet/ pay a rating please go hang out with the rest of the prostitutes in the airline wannabe forum. Please stay out of the Corporate world as we would like to keep our T'n'Cs 
The Airline industry cant be saved so I am staying right here in bizjets where we still have a chance to save ourselves from folks like you.
The Airline industry cant be saved so I am staying right here in bizjets where we still have a chance to save ourselves from folks like you.
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Caudillo,
At last some one how see's a bit of sence. You are indeed correct that luck pays a hugh part in getting that first job which is why I'm some dogmatic about people trowing good,herd earned money away on what is essentially a tthrow of the dice. As LRdriverII says in the Biz jet community we are more determined than ever to keep the cancer of the SSTR out as long as possible.
I fully understand the lure of flying shinney jets got many of those T-shirts but I also understand the need to make a good living from doing so as,believe me the pleasure soon turns to penance! Lots of hanging around aimlessly waiting for a client to turn up and then being bol****ed because you don't have the tright kind of orange juice on board or some thing of a similar nature you soon realise that there has to be more reward.
We are working extremely hard to keep this a proffesion worth working in. Its a fact that an F/o on a SSTR in a loco is earning less that the most junior cabin crew members, and they did not SS their licence.
Flying is a great career and only the determined will make it into the jobs that are worth having buying your self a type rating will only win you temporary joy with an operator that does not deserve to be in the business.
We have recently given two guys a break one in his mid 40's with low hours the other in mid 30's from a flying instructor background both got their type ratings paid and both are flying shinney jets, in addition we have given quite a few guys slots on Kingairs again they were paid for by us.
The long and the short of it is there are good jobs out there and there are better ways to get one than prostituting yourself! Get your self out and about make your name known and who knows you may roll the right dice and when you do you will be happy you didn't stoop to far!
At last some one how see's a bit of sence. You are indeed correct that luck pays a hugh part in getting that first job which is why I'm some dogmatic about people trowing good,herd earned money away on what is essentially a tthrow of the dice. As LRdriverII says in the Biz jet community we are more determined than ever to keep the cancer of the SSTR out as long as possible.
I fully understand the lure of flying shinney jets got many of those T-shirts but I also understand the need to make a good living from doing so as,believe me the pleasure soon turns to penance! Lots of hanging around aimlessly waiting for a client to turn up and then being bol****ed because you don't have the tright kind of orange juice on board or some thing of a similar nature you soon realise that there has to be more reward.
We are working extremely hard to keep this a proffesion worth working in. Its a fact that an F/o on a SSTR in a loco is earning less that the most junior cabin crew members, and they did not SS their licence.
Flying is a great career and only the determined will make it into the jobs that are worth having buying your self a type rating will only win you temporary joy with an operator that does not deserve to be in the business.
We have recently given two guys a break one in his mid 40's with low hours the other in mid 30's from a flying instructor background both got their type ratings paid and both are flying shinney jets, in addition we have given quite a few guys slots on Kingairs again they were paid for by us.
The long and the short of it is there are good jobs out there and there are better ways to get one than prostituting yourself! Get your self out and about make your name known and who knows you may roll the right dice and when you do you will be happy you didn't stoop to far!
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LR driver II :
where we still have a chance to save ourselves from folks like you.
Too late, I´m afraid. Loads of people buying their way in. Has been so, will be so.
Only companies that realize that a settled, stable and satisfied workforce is the key to LONGTERM success pay for the rating. Unfortunately, given the growth in our business, the major part of the lot let at least the F/Os pay.
My last outfit was such bunch, (12 out of 14 pilots sacked or voted with their feet within a year!) let them pay, let them work their butts off, abuse em every way and then shrug the shoulders when they leave after half a year to a year in the company. One of the clients summed it up pretty well, when the F/O introduced himself: "Oh, do I have to remember your name or will you be gone soon as all the others?"
High staff turnover, as often met within SSTR organizations, is seldom a good sign - yet they get away with it! And lets face it: its way easier to "manage" with fear, pressure and dishonesty, than creating a good environment, which would make people stay.
My solution is easy: If I get a resume on the desk, saying "willing to pay for rating", it would head straight to the bin. Period. Been there, done that.
where we still have a chance to save ourselves from folks like you.
Too late, I´m afraid. Loads of people buying their way in. Has been so, will be so.
Only companies that realize that a settled, stable and satisfied workforce is the key to LONGTERM success pay for the rating. Unfortunately, given the growth in our business, the major part of the lot let at least the F/Os pay.
My last outfit was such bunch, (12 out of 14 pilots sacked or voted with their feet within a year!) let them pay, let them work their butts off, abuse em every way and then shrug the shoulders when they leave after half a year to a year in the company. One of the clients summed it up pretty well, when the F/O introduced himself: "Oh, do I have to remember your name or will you be gone soon as all the others?"
High staff turnover, as often met within SSTR organizations, is seldom a good sign - yet they get away with it! And lets face it: its way easier to "manage" with fear, pressure and dishonesty, than creating a good environment, which would make people stay.
My solution is easy: If I get a resume on the desk, saying "willing to pay for rating", it would head straight to the bin. Period. Been there, done that.
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Oh yea.. the amount of CVs lying on our company desk.. all annotated with a "will self fund rating" has been a temptation to managment but we prefer to hire people on the basis of personality as I want people to stay..longterm..not bugger off as soon as they get 100 hours on type. Just because you have a rating does not mean you are a nice person or have the personality to fit in with the team. Also a SSTR rookie is only a short term solution to a companies needs as they typically have nothing invested in you so can flick you out like yesterdays date.
Chlong, I may be alot of things but not a bully. I have helped numerous F/Os into corporate flying and will continue to do so in the same vain I myself was hired into the industry. Returning the favour like I promised an old captain I would when he got me in. But you are right, I won't entertain your CV purely because of the SSTR offer, but on the merits of your other qualities that you will bring to company.
Chlong, I may be alot of things but not a bully. I have helped numerous F/Os into corporate flying and will continue to do so in the same vain I myself was hired into the industry. Returning the favour like I promised an old captain I would when he got me in. But you are right, I won't entertain your CV purely because of the SSTR offer, but on the merits of your other qualities that you will bring to company.
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To those who have been fortunate enough in their career in aviation not to have paid for a type rating....well done
....but for the rest of us 'Bottom Feeders' we have to do whatever we can to get employed and gain some useful experience. I am sure I can answer for most here, I for one do not have an endless supply of money to spend on training, so it was a trade off with income/loan but I surely was not in a position to be on a full time instructors wage for long, so I did ss a tr, yes I have debt, yes I earn less money than I did in a previous career, but what the hell, I am doing what I want to do 
I am in no doubt that it has opened the door of opportunity, so good luck to everyone...
....but for the rest of us 'Bottom Feeders' we have to do whatever we can to get employed and gain some useful experience. I am sure I can answer for most here, I for one do not have an endless supply of money to spend on training, so it was a trade off with income/loan but I surely was not in a position to be on a full time instructors wage for long, so I did ss a tr, yes I have debt, yes I earn less money than I did in a previous career, but what the hell, I am doing what I want to do I am in no doubt that it has opened the door of opportunity, so good luck to everyone...
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Hi, Just wondering do biz jet operators need pilots to meet minimum hours requirement for recruitment ie need to have a base limit on total time to be employed for the "insurance policy"?Or is it up to the operator?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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hello
A few months ago i decided to quit flying. I really tried everything to get a job and I did not care if it is was a prop or jet aircraft.
But unfortunately i was not able to get something. I remember there was a moment i considered to buy my own type but i'm happy i was too stubborn to do this and yes, i wanted to go on with my life instead of "hanging around and making no progression in my life". It was a very hard decision but now i'm glad i took the good decision and refused to spend any pennies in aviation.
Ok everybody is free to decide, but please, take your time to think if you want to buy a rating. If you want to get a bizz rating, keep in mind that it will probably for a freelance job. Ok if you are 42 and has the money and prepared to take the risk, go for it. But make sure that ,if it doesn't turn like you've wished, you don't regret what you did.
So good luck and think hard!!
dboy
.
A few months ago i decided to quit flying. I really tried everything to get a job and I did not care if it is was a prop or jet aircraft.
But unfortunately i was not able to get something. I remember there was a moment i considered to buy my own type but i'm happy i was too stubborn to do this and yes, i wanted to go on with my life instead of "hanging around and making no progression in my life". It was a very hard decision but now i'm glad i took the good decision and refused to spend any pennies in aviation.
Ok everybody is free to decide, but please, take your time to think if you want to buy a rating. If you want to get a bizz rating, keep in mind that it will probably for a freelance job. Ok if you are 42 and has the money and prepared to take the risk, go for it. But make sure that ,if it doesn't turn like you've wished, you don't regret what you did.
So good luck and think hard!!
dboy
.
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A lot of operators require a minimum number of hours, but this is to keep premiums down, just depends how tight the operator is as to whether or not they pay for an exemption (and how much they need you!) I also believe the TRTO plays a part aswell.
With regards to the SSTR debate, as previously posted, I paid for a rating last year after a lot of consideration, but have just been fortunate enough to do another rating on a bigger aircraft and didnt pay a penny. So one could argue that if I had not got the first rating, I certainly wouldn't have got the next - My point is...."you do what you gotta do" , I am sure everyone has thought about chucking in the towel at some point, but all you do is make it easier for the next guy (or gal), stay positive, be determined and for goodness sake, be current!
With regards to the SSTR debate, as previously posted, I paid for a rating last year after a lot of consideration, but have just been fortunate enough to do another rating on a bigger aircraft and didnt pay a penny. So one could argue that if I had not got the first rating, I certainly wouldn't have got the next - My point is...."you do what you gotta do" , I am sure everyone has thought about chucking in the towel at some point, but all you do is make it easier for the next guy (or gal), stay positive, be determined and for goodness sake, be current!
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I'm sorry I'm a little confused. First, you said:
Then, a couple of posts later, you said:
So, which is it?
Originally Posted by dfspilot
sorry should have said i am not looking for replies from the dont buy a type rating brigade
Originally Posted by dfspilot
everyone has their own opinion so all opinions good or bad are welcome.
