Citation II Type Rating - Difficult?
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Guys - don't get me wrong here. It's a flying holiday by all means but when one has commitments with restrict flying as a career but which to expand their skills enevelope it is a rather interesting choice. I don't intend and would hate interfer with someone's right to work. Howsoever, I would like to build jet time and possibly keep it current acting as a unnecessary safety pilot occasionally to increase by comptency and skillsets to make long distance flying realistic at a personal level. Sitting in the right seat for 500 hrs, or say 6 months is an experience of a lifetime for most - it's not a career choice, I've no intentions of flying for a living and if I did, of course I'd charge the commercial going rate.
This is for my own personal benefit to enable me to be a safer and more able pilot flying long distance personally. I think it's very childish for someone to imply I shouldn't use my hard earned cash to do what I would like to for a few months. Again, I'd agree if I were doing it every weekend but that's simply not the case.
Are you saying that someone outside a aviation as a career should never be allowed to experience flying a jet? Maybe you you choose a career as boring as accountancy or law you wouldn't find people who simply try out your job for a few months for joy.
Some people here have to realise you don't own the joy of flight. If money is your objective, flying isn't ever going to be profitable and salaries will keep going down - this is unfortunate but a simple fact of life since so many people also want to do your job (not me). Attack me if you wish for saying this but it's no disrespect (I respect a good pilot as much as any of you) but it's simple economics.
VT
This is for my own personal benefit to enable me to be a safer and more able pilot flying long distance personally. I think it's very childish for someone to imply I shouldn't use my hard earned cash to do what I would like to for a few months. Again, I'd agree if I were doing it every weekend but that's simply not the case.
Are you saying that someone outside a aviation as a career should never be allowed to experience flying a jet? Maybe you you choose a career as boring as accountancy or law you wouldn't find people who simply try out your job for a few months for joy.
Some people here have to realise you don't own the joy of flight. If money is your objective, flying isn't ever going to be profitable and salaries will keep going down - this is unfortunate but a simple fact of life since so many people also want to do your job (not me). Attack me if you wish for saying this but it's no disrespect (I respect a good pilot as much as any of you) but it's simple economics.
VT
Last edited by VORTIME; 16th Oct 2006 at 08:51.
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VT
i'm heading in a similar direction to you
my interest is also in long-distance personal flying
(or as i prefer to call it "time-travel" )
i'm about 100hrs behind you...
am very keen to hear how you progress from here
for my own education - hope you continue to post
progress reports....
i'm heading in a similar direction to you
my interest is also in long-distance personal flying
(or as i prefer to call it "time-travel" )
i'm about 100hrs behind you...
am very keen to hear how you progress from here
for my own education - hope you continue to post
progress reports....
Vortime,
Crosswind Limits,
You have missed my point entirely.
I own 4 aircraft. I am the only one who ever flys them, save occasionally a trusted and long time friend whom I do not charge. I have somewhere in the vicinity of 7000 command hours logged on a whole bunch of non-jet types all of which, apart from training, endorsements, renewals etc. have been private. I have paid for them all. Although I hold a CPL/MECIR and have done so for the past 17 years, I have never flown a commercial operation. Why, not because I think I will be taking a job away from you and not because I think I may affect your ability to earn a living, but because I've never had an interest in doing so nor have I ever been interested in flying a living. I have never made a dime out of flying, nor do I expect I ever will. I don't care about that. I choose to hold a commercial licence because I want to and I can. Has it made me a better pilot? – most definitely. I own four aircraft because I want to and I can afford to. How, is none elses business. Do I care whether it affects, or you think it affects you - no.
If I want to learn how to fly a Citation, Falcon, Gulfstream, 737 or even an R22 for my own benefit and betterment, then I will because I can. If it costs me, then so be it. I do not expect anyone else to fund something I choose to do for my own benefit.
If you think I, or anyone else is undercutting you or affecting your ability to earn a living by doing so in the way I have just described, then you've got it wrong. In any case, I don’t give a ****. I can do as I please with my money and my time, just as Vortime can do as he pleases with his. If you don't like it, tough.
This is for my own personal benefit to enable me to be a safer and more able pilot flying long distance personally. I think it's very childish for someone to imply I shouldn't use my hard earned cash to do what I would like to for a few months
Crosswind Limits,
You have missed my point entirely.
I beg to differ! Everything you say is fair enough accept ' How he earns his money is also none of your business'. Well it is my business when whatever he does, affects my ability to earn a living! If he's poling around South America or some other far flung place it's not likely to affect me, although local pilots might have something to say about it. If he's intending to do this in Europe or even UK then I'm sorry I make it my business to tell him how I feel!
If I want to learn how to fly a Citation, Falcon, Gulfstream, 737 or even an R22 for my own benefit and betterment, then I will because I can. If it costs me, then so be it. I do not expect anyone else to fund something I choose to do for my own benefit.
If you think I, or anyone else is undercutting you or affecting your ability to earn a living by doing so in the way I have just described, then you've got it wrong. In any case, I don’t give a ****. I can do as I please with my money and my time, just as Vortime can do as he pleases with his. If you don't like it, tough.
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Atlas. Your and Vortime's positions are chalk and cheese.
You are flying your own aircraft. Vortime is advocating occupying a seat in a commercial aeroplane. He suggests he'd only be taking a seat that would otherwise be empty which is fine but that also leads us down the unpaid pilots' assistant route (open large can of worms here).
Despite all the training you've been through you seem have missed the bit titled 'CRM'. 
No extra points for charm, eh? I would suggest that your decision to stay away from commercial flying was the best for all concerned.
Vortime. I'm sorry if some of the reactions here cause offence but what you have to realise is that you would be having an effect, however 'second hand' and however small, on a professional pilot. As I and others have already said imagine if it happened to you. Just because what we happen to do for a living can be so much fun doesn't mean it's fair to contribute to the demise in T&C's
You are flying your own aircraft. Vortime is advocating occupying a seat in a commercial aeroplane. He suggests he'd only be taking a seat that would otherwise be empty which is fine but that also leads us down the unpaid pilots' assistant route (open large can of worms here).
Do I care whether it affects, or you think it affects you - no.
No extra points for charm, eh? I would suggest that your decision to stay away from commercial flying was the best for all concerned.Vortime. I'm sorry if some of the reactions here cause offence but what you have to realise is that you would be having an effect, however 'second hand' and however small, on a professional pilot. As I and others have already said imagine if it happened to you. Just because what we happen to do for a living can be so much fun doesn't mean it's fair to contribute to the demise in T&C's
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Nail on head..
Take the rating and hire the Citation a few hours (10-15) at full rental rate. Thus you get the fun of flying a jet (I'd love to drive a jumbo around the circuit for a few touch'n'goes..but not fly longhaul) and you reach a level of comfort in the airplane. You also wont be taking a paying job away from a newbie professional pilot, and you can tell eaglejet or what ever scam you are joining to stick their ethics where the sun dont shine.
Job done, everybodies happy. A young pilot can feed his family and you can use your jet rating to score chicks in the bar
Take the rating and hire the Citation a few hours (10-15) at full rental rate. Thus you get the fun of flying a jet (I'd love to drive a jumbo around the circuit for a few touch'n'goes..but not fly longhaul) and you reach a level of comfort in the airplane. You also wont be taking a paying job away from a newbie professional pilot, and you can tell eaglejet or what ever scam you are joining to stick their ethics where the sun dont shine.
Job done, everybodies happy. A young pilot can feed his family and you can use your jet rating to score chicks in the bar
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Well whether the original post was considering a proffessional career or not I must say thankyou to all the contributors as I am about to embark on my CPL/ME/IR/MCC finishing with a C550 type rating and will be doing as a lot of you have suggested, so your posts have not been in vain!
Educated Hillbilly
For those considering the citation rating for career progression; which rating variant would it be best to obtain?
500/550 (1, 11, Bravo),
525 (CJ1,CJ2),
560 (Encore, Excel)
500/550 (1, 11, Bravo),
525 (CJ1,CJ2),
560 (Encore, Excel)
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I believe you might be slightly misinformed here (regarding the Excel) so here's a review. The CE-500 Type Rating is a very versatile rating. It gives you privileges in the 500, 501, 550 (II S/II, and Bravo), 551, 560 (V, Ultra, and Encore). Get the 500 type and do differences training for your specific model you shall fly, and you're legal. The Excel, although a "560" model designation, is a different type rating altogether; a CE-560XL, I believe. If I could only have one of the type ratings, it would be the 500. The 560XL type only lets you fly the Excel, the 525 rating is good, but the 500 rating covers many more aircraft. A side benefit to the 525 series is that as a part 23 aircraft, you don't need to do a yearly Single Pilot waiver.
Last edited by formulaben; 23rd Oct 2006 at 18:29.
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formulaben is quite right, check out this famous site for full info.
worth noting that, I think, most of the 525 variations are <5,700, and so they're not so good for your ATPL, assuming you're building...
worth noting that, I think, most of the 525 variations are <5,700, and so they're not so good for your ATPL, assuming you're building...
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Citation 11 Instructors
While as a pilot I thoroughly enjoy seeing my colleagues find work I'm obliged to point out (dons moderator cap) that advertisements here on PPRuNe must be paid for. Please contact admin if you wish to do so.
And no, I've no idea why this is underlined. I can't bloody well get rid of it
And no, I've no idea why this is underlined. I can't bloody well get rid of it
Last edited by Duck Rogers; 7th Oct 2007 at 14:09.
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Wouldn't let the extra speed worry you as it is all relative. Don't think speed but think time to the station instead, then speed will not be a problem for you.
Ignore anyone saying don't pay for a rating because with minimum hours you need that extra break, if you can't find an operator to pay for an initial type rating. The other side if the coin is you will not be bonded, or bonded to the extent if you did not pay. Only do it once though.
Go to FSI in the USA but it will take a month minimum to get TSA clearance. Reasons are these, more experienced instructors generally, the course will be spread over a longer period (very important at your level) a lot cheaper and a lot less complicated (KISS), even at a JAA approved outfit.
Good luck on the course.
Ignore anyone saying don't pay for a rating because with minimum hours you need that extra break, if you can't find an operator to pay for an initial type rating. The other side if the coin is you will not be bonded, or bonded to the extent if you did not pay. Only do it once though.
Go to FSI in the USA but it will take a month minimum to get TSA clearance. Reasons are these, more experienced instructors generally, the course will be spread over a longer period (very important at your level) a lot cheaper and a lot less complicated (KISS), even at a JAA approved outfit.
Good luck on the course.
