GAMA
Join Date: Sep 2006
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HA,HA !
I don't think some of you complainers out there realise just how good your management is. In a move that could only be described as "genius level" the management recently awarded a few of the ABZ crews a christmas bonus. Hopefully this will encourage the others to work harder in 2007 so they may too also be entitled to a bonus next year (to help pay off their yearly re-bond.)
This truly is top drawer management and should thoroughly boost morale.
This truly is top drawer management and should thoroughly boost morale.
Thats one of the best laughs I've had this year.........................B.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: scotland
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I’ve been here since last March and its definitely deteriorating. The last reason for staying, the flying, seems to be in decline. Hours for the last few months are well down (due in part to budget issues) with no decent long distance trips for ages. Couple this to our current terms and conditions and it just isn’t worth staying.
With my LPC coming up in about 3 months I now have to decide weather to put my notice in now, to avoid a re-bond (just under £3K), or commit for another 9 months hoping it gets better.
These re-bonds last for your first 3 years with Gama, yet you don’t know what your salary will be for the next 3 years or when you’ll be included in the now famous yearly bonus list. (both at the discretion of the (mis)management). All the commitment, respect and flexibility goes one way.
Last summer the roster never seemed to change, now the phone rings every week with yet more changes. The revolving door has started spinning with as many leaving as there is joining, therefore endless line training and demands for flexibility for the guys already here.
Whilst recruiting seems to be strong elsewhere why stay for the lowest turboprop salary, least holiday, maximum duty, least rest, least amount of flying ?
With my LPC coming up in about 3 months I now have to decide weather to put my notice in now, to avoid a re-bond (just under £3K), or commit for another 9 months hoping it gets better.
These re-bonds last for your first 3 years with Gama, yet you don’t know what your salary will be for the next 3 years or when you’ll be included in the now famous yearly bonus list. (both at the discretion of the (mis)management). All the commitment, respect and flexibility goes one way.
Last summer the roster never seemed to change, now the phone rings every week with yet more changes. The revolving door has started spinning with as many leaving as there is joining, therefore endless line training and demands for flexibility for the guys already here.
Whilst recruiting seems to be strong elsewhere why stay for the lowest turboprop salary, least holiday, maximum duty, least rest, least amount of flying ?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cumbernauld
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It is a pity GAMA dont realise what good pilots they have! I have had the privilege of flying with these guys and a more professional bunch you couldnt hope to meet, very helpful, efficient and under the current climate cheerful. Gama negotiated the contract with the Scottish Ambulance Service and got it wrong so why punish the troops who are trying to make it work.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newcastle
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my thoughts
I think that this thread is very sad, I had the pleasure to fly with Gama at ABZ and thought all of the guys there were fantastic, friendly and very proffessional. They make a great job of the important job they do.
I see the problem for Gama and their management team, they are trying to establish a similar team at GLA like the established team at ABZ, this will only take time.
I am sure the management team are experienced and know this.
What seems to me is occuring is one or two bad apples turning the whole bunch bad. This is very damaging for any company and I feel the company are only trying to obtain keen and dedicated, loyal staff to boost the company and the morale within.
All pilots seem to promise the earth at the interview whilst they require and need the job, and once they have consumed the training they are then suddenly believe they are worth there weight in gold and forget themselves. Of course they are only using the company as a stepping stone in order to move onwards and upwards. But maybe they should be grateful for the time they are with their employer and the experience in that role that they gain.
The job is damanding but very rewarding, all medical flights and King Air pilots operating in all weathers, winds and conditions and types of airports from large to small with good and bad navigation aids, runways etc is very difficult together with flying short notice on a "go now" emergency situations day and night makes this job tough.
If you have done this job for a reasonable period then your skills will be higher than most other pilots and of course will help with the application of your next job especially if a good reference is obtained.
I am not sure but if an individual paid for there entire training themselves and put themselves in a position to work from day one thus earning the company money with no cost to them then maybe they would not be bonded. A bond is to allow time for the company to recover the investment they have made in an individual and some gain.
Common in all Investors. A pilot is a cost and an investment and companies need a return on such or they would not be there in the first place. I know this company and simply do not belive that they job and all of the hardships of life and time commitment that come with this job would not have been explained in full.
I see the problem for Gama and their management team, they are trying to establish a similar team at GLA like the established team at ABZ, this will only take time.
I am sure the management team are experienced and know this.
What seems to me is occuring is one or two bad apples turning the whole bunch bad. This is very damaging for any company and I feel the company are only trying to obtain keen and dedicated, loyal staff to boost the company and the morale within.
All pilots seem to promise the earth at the interview whilst they require and need the job, and once they have consumed the training they are then suddenly believe they are worth there weight in gold and forget themselves. Of course they are only using the company as a stepping stone in order to move onwards and upwards. But maybe they should be grateful for the time they are with their employer and the experience in that role that they gain.
The job is damanding but very rewarding, all medical flights and King Air pilots operating in all weathers, winds and conditions and types of airports from large to small with good and bad navigation aids, runways etc is very difficult together with flying short notice on a "go now" emergency situations day and night makes this job tough.
If you have done this job for a reasonable period then your skills will be higher than most other pilots and of course will help with the application of your next job especially if a good reference is obtained.
I am not sure but if an individual paid for there entire training themselves and put themselves in a position to work from day one thus earning the company money with no cost to them then maybe they would not be bonded. A bond is to allow time for the company to recover the investment they have made in an individual and some gain.
Common in all Investors. A pilot is a cost and an investment and companies need a return on such or they would not be there in the first place. I know this company and simply do not belive that they job and all of the hardships of life and time commitment that come with this job would not have been explained in full.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Scotland
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This job was done extremely well for thirty plus years by Loganair. ABZ had a well established GAMA base for the transplant and longer flights and for when every other BN2 and heli was operational or grounded due weather. The system worked very well,the jobs got done and almost without fail, the BN2s got into the grass strips, beaches, short runways etc, all around Scotland, all year round! Even an outsider could see that going purely Kingair and heli was never going to adequately serve the Highlands and Islands. That's why the Island locals protested so much at the time. But hey, atleast the aeroplanes look nice for press releases and photo shoots.
No offence to the current GAMA crews, I know you work bloody hard doing a similar job, but the BN2 would go even when you didn't or couldn't, to places you could never dream of getting into.
I really feel for you all in the current climate, and speak to some of you regularly in GLA. You don't have to stay in GAMA to fly in all weather to small strips. Apply to Loganair. Fly a reasonably sized, complex turbo-prop in all weathers, to small and big airports and strips around the highlands and Islands. Get paid much, much more, have a much more stable roster fully complying with FTLs, get a Christmas bonus and work with some of the friendliest and most enjoyable crews (Including ops, engineering and other ground staff) I've ever had the pleasure to work with. Oh, we don't re-bond for LPCs and it's still quite satisfying too. Many of the routes are life-line services. They rely on you to operate all year round.
I hope the Scottish Ambulance Service do see this thread or atleast hear about it and realise what a hash has been made of this service. Although, saying that, they didn't listen to the thousands of voices with concerns and objections when the contract changed over. The Kingair and heli's are good at what they do. The BN2 was old and noisey. But it was much, much better for the job. Not just a personal opinion, an outright fact.
Taking cover. Shields to max.
ACA
No offence to the current GAMA crews, I know you work bloody hard doing a similar job, but the BN2 would go even when you didn't or couldn't, to places you could never dream of getting into.
I really feel for you all in the current climate, and speak to some of you regularly in GLA. You don't have to stay in GAMA to fly in all weather to small strips. Apply to Loganair. Fly a reasonably sized, complex turbo-prop in all weathers, to small and big airports and strips around the highlands and Islands. Get paid much, much more, have a much more stable roster fully complying with FTLs, get a Christmas bonus and work with some of the friendliest and most enjoyable crews (Including ops, engineering and other ground staff) I've ever had the pleasure to work with. Oh, we don't re-bond for LPCs and it's still quite satisfying too. Many of the routes are life-line services. They rely on you to operate all year round.
I hope the Scottish Ambulance Service do see this thread or atleast hear about it and realise what a hash has been made of this service. Although, saying that, they didn't listen to the thousands of voices with concerns and objections when the contract changed over. The Kingair and heli's are good at what they do. The BN2 was old and noisey. But it was much, much better for the job. Not just a personal opinion, an outright fact.
Taking cover. Shields to max.
ACA
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: aberdeen
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food for thought
There are presently 4 pilots working there notice at GLA and ABZ , most of which are half way through, there are NO pilots in trianing the maths must work for them selves. The ambulance service have made enquiries about the strecther kit prevoiusly installed in the islander and held in stoage at ABZ/GLA. Is gama getting ready to sell the contract? It would get rid of the thorn in there side, as they did have a good reputation before this.The stress of all the hassle is having a negative effect on the new pilots as cases of B.O are becomming more frequent.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I thought it was 5 working notice (3 Glasgow, 2 Aberdeen). 1 more maybe in the pipeline if they pass their sim ride thats coming up. That makes 8 confirmed leaving in less than 1 year out of 17 pilots. That many people can't be wrong. This is starting to dilute the core of experience that has been built up in the last year.
People start leaving in as little as 4 weeks time and with no new starts on board yet I wouldn't bet against plenty of long shifts in ABZ/trips down the road to GLA for days/weeks away from home. Chances of getting leave over the next few months? .Remember there is no extra pay/benefits for working longer shifts or working away from home for weeks at a time.
Its not surprising even some of the long term members of staff are finding it increasingly difficult to knock back direct approaches from Logan/City Star/Flightline/Eastern/bmi etc. that are offering more flying in less duty time for more money and more time off.
Its not nice to air our dirty linen in public but even recent direct approaches to the top by senior long term captains have been dissmissed out of hand. Unless something changes rapidly the customer (SAS) will lose confidence in this company.
People start leaving in as little as 4 weeks time and with no new starts on board yet I wouldn't bet against plenty of long shifts in ABZ/trips down the road to GLA for days/weeks away from home. Chances of getting leave over the next few months? .Remember there is no extra pay/benefits for working longer shifts or working away from home for weeks at a time.
Its not surprising even some of the long term members of staff are finding it increasingly difficult to knock back direct approaches from Logan/City Star/Flightline/Eastern/bmi etc. that are offering more flying in less duty time for more money and more time off.
Its not nice to air our dirty linen in public but even recent direct approaches to the top by senior long term captains have been dissmissed out of hand. Unless something changes rapidly the customer (SAS) will lose confidence in this company.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Thought [maybe]
I stand corrected , it maybe even more than you thought. As regards postioning people from ABZ to GLA there is no slack left in system, thats why last week there was no night shift captin as there was not even a london captin avialable. Whats going to happen now when i believe TAG at farnborough are hiring at £10k more, esspeccailly when your rostered days on are not flown and that is now your day off!!!!!! SAS MOST KNOW WHATS GOING ON. Is that why they want the islander kit back? They will know when there is no avialabilty in a few weeks.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: farnborough
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The Whole Truth
This is supposed to be a professional pilot forum and what is amazing is the standard of professionalism (or lack of) displayed across these pages. I find it astonishing that people who quite clearly work with each other, pass comment about each other, their job and management on an open public forum. There is a lot of incorrect and misleading information on these threads and what I would like to say is that it saddens me that I am actually working with these people.
The role we do in essence is very good with a lot of varied and challenging flying, it is not for everyone, but surely there has to be a bit of give and take.
Good luck to Gama for the remainder of the 7 yr contract and best wishes to those who are moving on to pastures new!!
The role we do in essence is very good with a lot of varied and challenging flying, it is not for everyone, but surely there has to be a bit of give and take.
Good luck to Gama for the remainder of the 7 yr contract and best wishes to those who are moving on to pastures new!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Recent news
Hello gents!
I am new here and hope I did it right by searching older posts instead of just starting a new topic...!
I carefully read through this thread and understood there are different opinions on GAMA. I would like to hear from some of those who have fresh news on this operator since I would like to apply for a position as soon as my paperwork has been issued. Low-Timer (BLW 1000TT) but still curious about their contracts in Scotland.
Anyone available?
Regards
DK
I am new here and hope I did it right by searching older posts instead of just starting a new topic...!
I carefully read through this thread and understood there are different opinions on GAMA. I would like to hear from some of those who have fresh news on this operator since I would like to apply for a position as soon as my paperwork has been issued. Low-Timer (BLW 1000TT) but still curious about their contracts in Scotland.
Anyone available?
Regards
DK
Join Date: Sep 2006
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DragKing
Gama is simple. Two sides too it.
1) Probably in top 3 corporate operators in uk (if not europe). I think now over 30 private jets across the whole fleet ranging from Lear 45's through to BBJ's, G5's, etc. Over 100 pilots full time & freelance employed by them. It really doesn't get any better in the corporate, biz jet, GA community. New jets coming all the time & cannot crew them with "experienced" pilot's.
Also a lot of perks that come with the job, say over & above other "rivals".
2) Scottish Operation ....2 brand new BE 200 kingair's ( 1 based ABZ, 1 based GLA). These aircraft are Pro line 21 avioinics fit, fantastic to fly & you really won't see anything better until u get on a 777. (No need to tune a radio frequency let alone an ILS, all done automatically). It makes an airbus look ancient.
The sottish is simply great flying in some serious conditions, on a great aircraft.
Now the bad news, pay is poor, huge bond, long standby hours & low flying hours (about 300 hrs per year). Roster is well..... to say the least dubious, but what the hell!!
All in all I would say if you have got 1000 hrs try somewhere else or even their jets, but the scottish with your experience should be your last resort (depending on what you want of course!!!)
Gama is simple. Two sides too it.
1) Probably in top 3 corporate operators in uk (if not europe). I think now over 30 private jets across the whole fleet ranging from Lear 45's through to BBJ's, G5's, etc. Over 100 pilots full time & freelance employed by them. It really doesn't get any better in the corporate, biz jet, GA community. New jets coming all the time & cannot crew them with "experienced" pilot's.
Also a lot of perks that come with the job, say over & above other "rivals".
2) Scottish Operation ....2 brand new BE 200 kingair's ( 1 based ABZ, 1 based GLA). These aircraft are Pro line 21 avioinics fit, fantastic to fly & you really won't see anything better until u get on a 777. (No need to tune a radio frequency let alone an ILS, all done automatically). It makes an airbus look ancient.
The sottish is simply great flying in some serious conditions, on a great aircraft.
Now the bad news, pay is poor, huge bond, long standby hours & low flying hours (about 300 hrs per year). Roster is well..... to say the least dubious, but what the hell!!
All in all I would say if you have got 1000 hrs try somewhere else or even their jets, but the scottish with your experience should be your last resort (depending on what you want of course!!!)
Join Date: Mar 2004
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bilderberger, you amaze me, at last an accurate post from you!!
Your right the scottish operation may not suit every one's taste,the money is not the best and for those looking to build hours and move on to an airline job flying from ILS to ILS don't waste your time. however if you live in scotland and want to do a job that is gretaly rewarding combined with some of the most challenging and fun flying you can get then the Scotish Air Ambulance is a great job.
Long hours of standby are par for the course in the saving lives business(thank god)and if your based in Glasgow I believe you can do your standby at home ie lots of time off!
As for the shinny jets in the south most of the clients require a minimum of 1500hrs TT, because as Bilderberger says, Gama is one of the top 3 corperate operators and therefore their client's demand experience.
ps. no trouble recruiting experienced pilots down south they have several high time airline guys awaiting positions at the moment! However type rated with significant experience on type are always welcomed.
Your right the scottish operation may not suit every one's taste,the money is not the best and for those looking to build hours and move on to an airline job flying from ILS to ILS don't waste your time. however if you live in scotland and want to do a job that is gretaly rewarding combined with some of the most challenging and fun flying you can get then the Scotish Air Ambulance is a great job.
Long hours of standby are par for the course in the saving lives business(thank god)and if your based in Glasgow I believe you can do your standby at home ie lots of time off!
As for the shinny jets in the south most of the clients require a minimum of 1500hrs TT, because as Bilderberger says, Gama is one of the top 3 corperate operators and therefore their client's demand experience.
ps. no trouble recruiting experienced pilots down south they have several high time airline guys awaiting positions at the moment! However type rated with significant experience on type are always welcomed.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Unablereqnavperf
An accurate post from me.....I am not even rising to that one, however, it does appear we may be singing from the same sheet!!
I am not saying Gama just got good overnight, the issues that reared their ugly heads last year with regards the scottish operation ,as far as I'm concerned were/are all valid & I standby by that,I hear things have changed for the better, I don't know, several guys moved on since then,but lets not beat around the bush hear, if I was a Biz jet jockey, Gama would probably be top of my list along with TAG!!
(Yes that is a compliment!!)
An accurate post from me.....I am not even rising to that one, however, it does appear we may be singing from the same sheet!!
I am not saying Gama just got good overnight, the issues that reared their ugly heads last year with regards the scottish operation ,as far as I'm concerned were/are all valid & I standby by that,I hear things have changed for the better, I don't know, several guys moved on since then,but lets not beat around the bush hear, if I was a Biz jet jockey, Gama would probably be top of my list along with TAG!!
(Yes that is a compliment!!)