GAMA
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''Aviation like any other business is there for profit if you can make money and have happy staff your doing very well indeed!''
Unable,who the flippin 'eck are you and which planet did you arrive from ?
''Happy staff''...........you've got to be taking the pi++ surely !
They aren't a HAPPY lot in GAMMA .from 75% or so of the pilots(the rest just put up with it 'cos they are a bunch of ass -likking, brownie- points brigade) to all of the ops staff in F'boro WHO ARE SICK OF THE WAY THEY ARE BEING TREATED!
I agree with Dai's last statement wholeheartedly ! A miserable so called management lot .I understand 5 out of the 7 pilots at Gla now working their notice.
B. (enuf said)
Unable,who the flippin 'eck are you and which planet did you arrive from ?
''Happy staff''...........you've got to be taking the pi++ surely !
They aren't a HAPPY lot in GAMMA .from 75% or so of the pilots(the rest just put up with it 'cos they are a bunch of ass -likking, brownie- points brigade) to all of the ops staff in F'boro WHO ARE SICK OF THE WAY THEY ARE BEING TREATED!
I agree with Dai's last statement wholeheartedly ! A miserable so called management lot .I understand 5 out of the 7 pilots at Gla now working their notice.
B. (enuf said)
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Up until now, Gama had no experience of running a scheduled service, from stations – one 400 miles away and the other 560 miles away.
For someone that used to work there you're not very clued up.
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The past few comments i tottally endorse, Dai rear get a life, you are a very bitter person, it may be a result of your present work colleages being very negative!!!!!!!! Life is full of experiences, gama went though a steep learning curve like every new venue, it has to be given a chance.
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When people have to resort to name calling, with nothing else tangible to refute you with, then you know that you are saying the right thing! You must excuse those who do so – attack is their desperate means of defence!
I accept the point that SRS What has made (entry #64) and I may stand partially corrected.
If the daily service to HUY was a turnaround then my point is still correct. If the company had their own station there then obviously I must stand fully corrected on that specific minor point only.
SRS What – please excuse me for things in the company that I did not know about before my time. However there are things that I know about the company that you do not, and I assert that everything else that I have said so far bears up to scrutiny! Please read on . . . .!
Let’s recap . . . .
There is management who are unable to run the service that they tendered for, at the cost the tendered, with the promises they offered, and who require baled out with more public money.
There is a discontented workforce throughout, and at the stations there is a process of a mass evacuation.
There is an absence of formal contracts with ground support companies who supply vital services – what little that does take place is supplied on a goodwill basis from friends on the airport who get a £20 pay-off straight into their pockets without it going through the books. How generous! Good management?
Aircraft defects/repairs/maintenance are frequently not listed/closed off on the Tech Log.
Defects beyond the MEL are often listed as ADDs. ADDs often go beyond their repair dates.
There is an absence of legal maintenance procedures for the stations. Good management?
Now in the middle of November, there is no de-icing contract/facilities for the Beech King at Glasgow.
The above all compromise the safety of the aircraft, the crew, and the passengers/patients.
We have contributors on this site who have to resort to name-calling! Shocking! You can tell that I'm really affected!
I won’t mention what management did to the Scottish flight crew’s arranged and booked leave (at very short notice) during summer 2006. You can guess!
I won’t mention what they did to the Glasgow ground engineer and why he left!
I wont mention what they did to the Aberdeen engineer and why he’s leaving!
I won’t mention what happened to the Scottish flight crew when they complained about being regularly pressurised into working their rest days and off-duty.
I won’t mention that there was almost fisticuffs in the crew room when the incoming flight crew discovered that the previous flight crew had not recorded an intermittent flap defect into the Tech Log – because on the return flight the fault wasn’t there so must have rectified itself! Wonderful! I’ve heard everything now!
I won’t mention how the same pilot flattened the aircraft battery then stitched up the engineer.
AND IN THE WORDS OF FRANK CARSON – THERE’S MORE!
Not bad for ‘another moron talking out of place . . . believe it’s slander’’ (entry # 12)
The above is not my definition of good management carrying out their key tasks. Sadly, from reading the earlier entries on this thread, there is a small number who think that the above is all OK, should be defended at all costs, are there to run a business, and that it is a great place to work!
I accept the point that SRS What has made (entry #64) and I may stand partially corrected.
If the daily service to HUY was a turnaround then my point is still correct. If the company had their own station there then obviously I must stand fully corrected on that specific minor point only.
SRS What – please excuse me for things in the company that I did not know about before my time. However there are things that I know about the company that you do not, and I assert that everything else that I have said so far bears up to scrutiny! Please read on . . . .!
Let’s recap . . . .
There is management who are unable to run the service that they tendered for, at the cost the tendered, with the promises they offered, and who require baled out with more public money.
There is a discontented workforce throughout, and at the stations there is a process of a mass evacuation.
There is an absence of formal contracts with ground support companies who supply vital services – what little that does take place is supplied on a goodwill basis from friends on the airport who get a £20 pay-off straight into their pockets without it going through the books. How generous! Good management?
Aircraft defects/repairs/maintenance are frequently not listed/closed off on the Tech Log.
Defects beyond the MEL are often listed as ADDs. ADDs often go beyond their repair dates.
There is an absence of legal maintenance procedures for the stations. Good management?
Now in the middle of November, there is no de-icing contract/facilities for the Beech King at Glasgow.
The above all compromise the safety of the aircraft, the crew, and the passengers/patients.
We have contributors on this site who have to resort to name-calling! Shocking! You can tell that I'm really affected!
I won’t mention what management did to the Scottish flight crew’s arranged and booked leave (at very short notice) during summer 2006. You can guess!
I won’t mention what they did to the Glasgow ground engineer and why he left!
I wont mention what they did to the Aberdeen engineer and why he’s leaving!
I won’t mention what happened to the Scottish flight crew when they complained about being regularly pressurised into working their rest days and off-duty.
I won’t mention that there was almost fisticuffs in the crew room when the incoming flight crew discovered that the previous flight crew had not recorded an intermittent flap defect into the Tech Log – because on the return flight the fault wasn’t there so must have rectified itself! Wonderful! I’ve heard everything now!
I won’t mention how the same pilot flattened the aircraft battery then stitched up the engineer.
AND IN THE WORDS OF FRANK CARSON – THERE’S MORE!
Not bad for ‘another moron talking out of place . . . believe it’s slander’’ (entry # 12)
The above is not my definition of good management carrying out their key tasks. Sadly, from reading the earlier entries on this thread, there is a small number who think that the above is all OK, should be defended at all costs, are there to run a business, and that it is a great place to work!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Thank you dai rear for your comments, it has now shown you in your true light, if all your statements had even a glimmer of truth the CAA would have jumped on GAMA when the FTL buissness was under discussion. Like every company on this planet it has its faults, but you work around them. At the end of the day GAMA serve the remote areas of scotland, and give the general public a life line, the feedback from these areas is very good. I would trust there comments before a bitter person with a chip on there shoulder. what would happen to CHC abz on this forum, another slating!!!!!!!!!
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Great Suggestion!
I'm on a roll right now and so your offer to investiagte another company is most welcome! You never know who I might know in there too! It's a small world in aviation and so people/companies who dump on other people - it inevitably comes back and bites them.
Today is the 10th anniversary of the worst case of E coli in the UK. When the tender went out, the SAS favoured a dedicated Beech King over the Islander to lessen the risk of cross infection.
When were the the Beech Kings last deep cleaned?
Today is the 10th anniversary of the worst case of E coli in the UK. When the tender went out, the SAS favoured a dedicated Beech King over the Islander to lessen the risk of cross infection.
When were the the Beech Kings last deep cleaned?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Gamma
Dai,words of wisdom I think !
Another pilot confirmed his intentions to leave this week from the unfortunate Glasgow base !
I'm sure the SAS must now be sitting up and taking note !
Thats 90% of the Glasgow pilots leaving since the base was opened in March !
Negotiation was aparently attempted with the ''management'' but they have decided to let all their pilots go rather than come up with any solutions to their issues of which there are many.
This is all down to Gamma being a greedy company,totally without the skills necessary to run what should have been an efficient and happy base.
Now you have cleaners employed at the base who are earning the same as the first officers !
As far as the CAA audit goes well there are many questions to be brought to light and there is going to be a certain amount of you know what going to hit Gamma's particular fan.
Good luck to all you guys in getting proper jobs from this particular pprune reader and I suppose if nothing else,all the whistle blowing that will eventually be heard should at least serve to discourage any other unfortunates from joining this tragic outfit !
B
Another pilot confirmed his intentions to leave this week from the unfortunate Glasgow base !
I'm sure the SAS must now be sitting up and taking note !
Thats 90% of the Glasgow pilots leaving since the base was opened in March !
Negotiation was aparently attempted with the ''management'' but they have decided to let all their pilots go rather than come up with any solutions to their issues of which there are many.
This is all down to Gamma being a greedy company,totally without the skills necessary to run what should have been an efficient and happy base.
Now you have cleaners employed at the base who are earning the same as the first officers !
As far as the CAA audit goes well there are many questions to be brought to light and there is going to be a certain amount of you know what going to hit Gamma's particular fan.
Good luck to all you guys in getting proper jobs from this particular pprune reader and I suppose if nothing else,all the whistle blowing that will eventually be heard should at least serve to discourage any other unfortunates from joining this tragic outfit !
B
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Bilderberger, perhaps you should take up doing what your handle suggests, and go and flip burgers at McDonalds!
People like you give aviation a bad name,an attitude like yours will not get you very far in what is a very small industry!
People like you give aviation a bad name,an attitude like yours will not get you very far in what is a very small industry!
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Gamma
'Unable', Thankfully I'm connected but not 'in' the industry as you say.
Now, anyone for Frenchfries ?
Pass the salt,
B.
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Arrest
Police in Ipswich have arrested Steve Wright for the murder of 5 prostitutes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmur...976652,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmur...976652,00.html
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Police in Ipswich have arrested Steve Wright for the murder of 5 prostitutes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmur...976652,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmur...976652,00.html
Do you have to work hard at being such a prat, or does it come naturally?
Taken from your source (emphasis is mine)
Last night detectives in Ipswich continued to question Steve Wright, 48, a forklift truck driver
Moderator
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Dai Rear, clearly a seriously disgruntled previous GAMA employee has clearly overstepped the bounds of common morality and I have jammed a large obstruction in his cake-hole for the next few months. Hopefully by the time this restriction wears off some of his bitterness will have worn off.
Anonymous forums are fine but anonymous sniping and clear vindictive attacks, bordering on the ludicrous are not tolerated here.
4HP
Anonymous forums are fine but anonymous sniping and clear vindictive attacks, bordering on the ludicrous are not tolerated here.
4HP
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Strange
Police in Ipswich have arrested Steve Wright for the murder of 5 prostitutes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmur...976652,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/suffolkmur...976652,00.html
The above is a mere quotation from Dai of recent events so why should you suddenly start your unfortunate rantings ?
As a MODERATOR you should be fair or more to the point is it nasty little Gamma up to their tricks again ? WHO'S FRIEND IN GAMMA ARE YOU THEN THAT YOUR CAGE HAS BEEN SO RATTLED BY A MERE QUOTATION.
What an outfit !!...I believe most of their pilots will be moving out soon and where will that leave their new ambulance service ? Some of the tales coming out of there beggar belief !
I bet Loganair would not have made such an a**e of things !!!
B.
Hit a nerve, did I? What does a murder in Ipswich have to do with a thread on GAMA? I have no affiliation with GAMA but do have a common-sense compassion to them for some of their clearly off-the-rails previous employees. 4HP
Last edited by bilderberger; 24th Dec 2006 at 11:14.
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Gamma
CJBoy and Mr 4 pot, at least these posts may serve to warn any prospective employees and make them think very carefully about joining this organisation ! The way employees are treated at present (not disgruntled ex as we've heard plenty of that) is a disgrace and I applaud Mr. Dai for speaking out !
B.
B.
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Bilderberger, when are you and your mate with stomach problems going to go away? Your childish rants on here are getting very tiresome. Gama has many pilots that have been there for over 15 years and is a happy company down south.Air ambulance flying requires a tougher breed of pilot and you are just a moaning little jelly fish,face facts your a spineless weesle who couldn't make the grade now go try fliping burgers and take your incontinant mate with you!
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Meltdown
Of the 7 pilots who were employed last March for the wonderful new improved Scottish Ambulance Service at Glasgow,only ONE now remains who is not working his notice !(he is only doing this because he hasn't secured another position yet) 3 already gone,3 working notice.
This sad situation has arisen for one reason only......the complete and utter arrogance of one management individual and his grim determination not to listen to the requests from and to communicate with,his pilots at Glasgow and Aberdeen.
This company has driven a coach and horses through the FTL scheme,exploiting with great skill and dexterity,each dark corner and 'grey' area therin.When asked on several occasions why they are manipulating the system to such an extent,the answer was always that 'no one has said we can't !( Proudly boasting their achievements in the process)
Well,Gamma are now reaping the benefits of their dismal attempts at constructing their own rules and regulations with the phenomena of a Flight Ops Inspector who strangely sanctions the whole thing (contrary to the Flght time limitations )!!Nobody wants to work there ! Pilots are voting with their feet. Another indication of this company's bizarre and greedy antics is (as was proven by several individuals at Abz base) the fact that Gamma are bonding their pilots for a sum which is more than TWICE what it costs for type training ! That just about says it all..
Call the above expression 'moaning and groaning' if you like but the whole episode has caused major disruption in the lives of those who joined this company in the belief of what they were told at their interview !!!
Scottish Ambulance Service please take note of this situation!!!
B.
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who said it is better down south
I have received 3 CV from pilots down south.
They are being messed about and terms and conditions changed without warning, or agreement.
SilverS
They are being messed about and terms and conditions changed without warning, or agreement.
SilverS
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Silverspoonaviator
AND ?
Nothing different from the way I and many others have been treated by second rate charter companies. It happens and still does, the only way you can stop this as a crew member is to vote with your feet.
When there are no crew members left, then, and only then, will the effect be felt by the scottish ambulance service. Until then I doubt they care.
uni
They are being messed about and terms and conditions changed without warning, or agreement
Nothing different from the way I and many others have been treated by second rate charter companies. It happens and still does, the only way you can stop this as a crew member is to vote with your feet.
When there are no crew members left, then, and only then, will the effect be felt by the scottish ambulance service. Until then I doubt they care.
uni
Accuracies
Bilderberger and others,
Whilst I know nothing of GAMA or the operation up north I feel able to offer a couple of comments on point of fact if you are all to have a reasoned discussion.
The first is on you comments about FTLs. The flight ops inspectors rarley sanction what companies do as has been suggested above. They are normally very proessional about policing what companies do against the approved OPs Manual. The FTL scheme is submitted to the OPs Inspector who then passes it to the CAA SRG FTL department, who are independent of the ops inspectors, for approval. It is the FTL department who say yes or no and the ops inspector just checks that operations are being completed in accordance with the company scheme. The company scheme does not have to be in accordance with CAP 371 which is only advisory so you should not use CAP 371 to comment on.
The second point is about bonding, which I have mixed felleings about. The personnel professionals have a rule of thumb which suggests that it costs a company about 1.5 times the offered salary to recruit an employee. If you add the cost of the training courses and admin support to this you can see that turn over of staff is alot more expensive than just the type rating course.
Just to balance the discussion. I have just been talking to someone who is not being paid during training, is being paid half salary during line training and being bonded for their line training!
MM
Whilst I know nothing of GAMA or the operation up north I feel able to offer a couple of comments on point of fact if you are all to have a reasoned discussion.
The first is on you comments about FTLs. The flight ops inspectors rarley sanction what companies do as has been suggested above. They are normally very proessional about policing what companies do against the approved OPs Manual. The FTL scheme is submitted to the OPs Inspector who then passes it to the CAA SRG FTL department, who are independent of the ops inspectors, for approval. It is the FTL department who say yes or no and the ops inspector just checks that operations are being completed in accordance with the company scheme. The company scheme does not have to be in accordance with CAP 371 which is only advisory so you should not use CAP 371 to comment on.
The second point is about bonding, which I have mixed felleings about. The personnel professionals have a rule of thumb which suggests that it costs a company about 1.5 times the offered salary to recruit an employee. If you add the cost of the training courses and admin support to this you can see that turn over of staff is alot more expensive than just the type rating course.
Just to balance the discussion. I have just been talking to someone who is not being paid during training, is being paid half salary during line training and being bonded for their line training!
MM