eclipse 500 info
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eclipse 500 info
Hi!
do you know were I could get some info about the eclipse 500 and if there is a company that sells it in Europe?
Thanks for all the info you can give me!
Ceers,
do you know were I could get some info about the eclipse 500 and if there is a company that sells it in Europe?
Thanks for all the info you can give me!
Ceers,
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Never diverting!
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In order to retain a low margin on the Eclipse 500 and keep the cost as low as possible to Eclipse owners, all sales are currently made on a direct basis. We do not have plans to add dealers or distributors at this time.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks,
I called them in US, 3 years from now is the time expected for the delivery,
It is impossible to find out a VLJ with the same charact. but also the same prize, D.Jet is comeing , but still has to be certificated.........
The business man I am in touch won t wait 3 years.....
Any suggestion on wich aircraft I can show him? He like the Eclispe , he likes the price too............
Thanks.,
I called them in US, 3 years from now is the time expected for the delivery,
It is impossible to find out a VLJ with the same charact. but also the same prize, D.Jet is comeing , but still has to be certificated.........
The business man I am in touch won t wait 3 years.....
Any suggestion on wich aircraft I can show him? He like the Eclispe , he likes the price too............
Thanks.,
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lovis.
We all expected a lot from the Eclipse when it was muted a few years ago, seemed too good to be true.
Sadly it’s starting to look like that.
Rumour is, it’s above weight, below performance, below target speed, half the range.
It is unlikely that ATC will let it operate at its economical levels FL330+ because it will be a lot slower than the ‘regular’ jet traffic. Therefore on a day to day basis expect much lower levels, lower speeds and higher fuel burn
Also consider the financial stability of the whole project, the price is based on some pretty unbelievable targets.
Altogether it will be 20 kts approx faster than say a TBM, carry less, and have half the range, twice the operating costs.
Depends on your mission profile really! Also consider a PC12, better load than the TBM but a lot slower.
Hope this helps.
We all expected a lot from the Eclipse when it was muted a few years ago, seemed too good to be true.
Sadly it’s starting to look like that.
Rumour is, it’s above weight, below performance, below target speed, half the range.
It is unlikely that ATC will let it operate at its economical levels FL330+ because it will be a lot slower than the ‘regular’ jet traffic. Therefore on a day to day basis expect much lower levels, lower speeds and higher fuel burn
Also consider the financial stability of the whole project, the price is based on some pretty unbelievable targets.
Altogether it will be 20 kts approx faster than say a TBM, carry less, and have half the range, twice the operating costs.
Depends on your mission profile really! Also consider a PC12, better load than the TBM but a lot slower.
Hope this helps.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lovis
The eclipse will be the corporate/private pilot’s nightmare.With restricted load, fuel and legs you will always be flying on the edge of the envelope. Good side is your mental maths will soon be up to speed.
Stick with something like a TBM700, piloting is pretty straightforward, good range, great speed and most impressively maintenance is very cheap.
Also look at a SKA 200, bit pricey, good loads, good legs, bit slow and unfortunately a little heavy on the maintenance and reliability side, but worth considering
The eclipse will be the corporate/private pilot’s nightmare.With restricted load, fuel and legs you will always be flying on the edge of the envelope. Good side is your mental maths will soon be up to speed.
Stick with something like a TBM700, piloting is pretty straightforward, good range, great speed and most impressively maintenance is very cheap.
Also look at a SKA 200, bit pricey, good loads, good legs, bit slow and unfortunately a little heavy on the maintenance and reliability side, but worth considering
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks guys,
I was thinking to the TBN and the Malibu too,
the reason this business man is more prone to wait for the eclipse is : multy engine jet ( and I know how reliable a single turbine is, I flew a caravan and the perforamnce was impressive)
and he is looking at the cost of the plane, that is around 2.5 million in the case of the TBN 700 and 1.3 for the eclipse,
He does not need to carry loads, the legs that we will fly are from 200 miles up to 1000 miles, from Italy to England.....
We were thinking about a king air 200, and again the operationg costs are pretty close to this new generation jet, even if the performance will be a little less than the one publuished,
I was looking to other jets, citation muistang cost double, the diamon jet will be ready in 3 years..............or you go into a citation but everything is double, from the cost of operation to the cost to buy........
I may not know other jets...........if you have any suggestions ,there will be well appreciated!
Thanks,
Lovi.
I was thinking to the TBN and the Malibu too,
the reason this business man is more prone to wait for the eclipse is : multy engine jet ( and I know how reliable a single turbine is, I flew a caravan and the perforamnce was impressive)
and he is looking at the cost of the plane, that is around 2.5 million in the case of the TBN 700 and 1.3 for the eclipse,
He does not need to carry loads, the legs that we will fly are from 200 miles up to 1000 miles, from Italy to England.....
We were thinking about a king air 200, and again the operationg costs are pretty close to this new generation jet, even if the performance will be a little less than the one publuished,
I was looking to other jets, citation muistang cost double, the diamon jet will be ready in 3 years..............or you go into a citation but everything is double, from the cost of operation to the cost to buy........
I may not know other jets...........if you have any suggestions ,there will be well appreciated!
Thanks,
Lovi.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lovis.
“He does not need to carry loads, the legs that we will fly are from 200 miles up to 1000 miles, from Italy to England.....”.
And therein lies the problem, the eclipse will probably be good for up to 500nm, say London to Milan, but 1000nm???
The Malibu is the turbine version of the Eclipse, no speed, no legs, no load and a nightmare to operate. Still you’ll pick one up cheap. You will want to like it………. because you’ll be stuck with it.
Good luck with your hunting; it’s a nice position to be in.
“He does not need to carry loads, the legs that we will fly are from 200 miles up to 1000 miles, from Italy to England.....”.
And therein lies the problem, the eclipse will probably be good for up to 500nm, say London to Milan, but 1000nm???
The Malibu is the turbine version of the Eclipse, no speed, no legs, no load and a nightmare to operate. Still you’ll pick one up cheap. You will want to like it………. because you’ll be stuck with it.
Good luck with your hunting; it’s a nice position to be in.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks man, I will keep searching,
if not 1300 mn ok, but do you really think the eclipse won t have a range of 1000nm ???
The mother eclipse mightbe optimistic, but I do not think they so bad..............were did you hear those info?
Thanks.
if not 1300 mn ok, but do you really think the eclipse won t have a range of 1000nm ???
The mother eclipse mightbe optimistic, but I do not think they so bad..............were did you hear those info?
Thanks.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where are you getting this negative information regarding the Eclipse 500? I have seen nothing but positive info in the last year in many trade magazines.
The project was delayed a year because of the Williams engines, but this is now solved.
The avionics suite is also impressive.
Check 6
The project was delayed a year because of the Williams engines, but this is now solved.
The avionics suite is also impressive.
Check 6
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check 6.
“Where are you getting this negative information regarding the Eclipse 500? I have seen nothing but positive info in the last year in many trade magazines.”
I agree the trade magazines do (in the main) seem to be rather positive and I do not wish to appear to be negative. An article I read quite recently in a US Trade magazine is quite critical about the crisis of subcontractors and parts supply.
Like I said “rumour is” (in my opening reply to the posed question), but specifically talking to a few knowledgeable people at Oshkosh it seemed to be the general consensus.
Also talking to a few medium size jet manufacturers (potential competitors) the ‘nervousness’ that they were displaying two years ago about the advent of the Eclipse have all but disappeared
And before you point it out “rumour”, is of course just that. It is however apparent that the promissory noises of a few years ago are all drifting – in the wrong direction. Take the price alone, the big spin 2002-2004 was the price, $900,000 the first jet below 1m etc etc etc, dont hear much of that now with the price climbing to $1.5 in avery short space of time. expect that to increase substantially.
The avionics suite is indeed impressive, but not a lot more than others already out there now. It will not look so impressive in at minimum three years time.
There are two potential biggies looming for single pilot VLJs. One will be insurance and the other will be regulation. If you think for one minute that BA,AA, Lufthansa, Continental and the rest - will want a tired businessman at the controls at FL whatever upsetting the paying public with the notion! As we know to our cost in GA the big boys call the shots with government.
Apologies in advance if a little too negative, just trying to introduce a little realism, although I dop like to dream a little myself.
“Where are you getting this negative information regarding the Eclipse 500? I have seen nothing but positive info in the last year in many trade magazines.”
I agree the trade magazines do (in the main) seem to be rather positive and I do not wish to appear to be negative. An article I read quite recently in a US Trade magazine is quite critical about the crisis of subcontractors and parts supply.
Like I said “rumour is” (in my opening reply to the posed question), but specifically talking to a few knowledgeable people at Oshkosh it seemed to be the general consensus.
Also talking to a few medium size jet manufacturers (potential competitors) the ‘nervousness’ that they were displaying two years ago about the advent of the Eclipse have all but disappeared
And before you point it out “rumour”, is of course just that. It is however apparent that the promissory noises of a few years ago are all drifting – in the wrong direction. Take the price alone, the big spin 2002-2004 was the price, $900,000 the first jet below 1m etc etc etc, dont hear much of that now with the price climbing to $1.5 in avery short space of time. expect that to increase substantially.
The avionics suite is indeed impressive, but not a lot more than others already out there now. It will not look so impressive in at minimum three years time.
There are two potential biggies looming for single pilot VLJs. One will be insurance and the other will be regulation. If you think for one minute that BA,AA, Lufthansa, Continental and the rest - will want a tired businessman at the controls at FL whatever upsetting the paying public with the notion! As we know to our cost in GA the big boys call the shots with government.
Apologies in advance if a little too negative, just trying to introduce a little realism, although I dop like to dream a little myself.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lbp, thanks for the follow-up. Historically, prices increase on new aircraft models early on, so this is not unusual.
I understand and appreciate your "rumour" caveat. I am going with the optimistic point of view for now as I have an interest in seeing the Eclipse 500 being a success.
Time will tell for sure.
Check 6
I understand and appreciate your "rumour" caveat. I am going with the optimistic point of view for now as I have an interest in seeing the Eclipse 500 being a success.
Time will tell for sure.
Check 6
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eclipse Announces Road Trip, Picks Northeast Service Center
Eclipse Aviation said this week it is launching a national tour -- its first -- to showcase the company's Eclipse 500 very light jet (VLJ). For the tour, Eclipse will take one of its prototypes, N506EA, to a series of seven cities during November. At those stops, the "FAA-conforming VLJ" will be on static display and Eclipse will host a reception at selected sites. In addition to the just-announced November tour, Eclipse said it plans to visit additional cities later this year and in 2006; the specifics will be announced later.
Meanwhile, Eclipse also said it has chosen the Albany (N.Y.) International Airport (ALB) as the site for its new northeast factory service center. The to-be-built state-of-the-art maintenance and service center is one of seven planned by the company; previously announced locations include Albuquerque, N.M., and Gainesville, Fla.
Construction of the Eclipse Aviation hangar at ALB is expected to begin in the spring of 2006, with completion later in the year. The facility will be built just south of the existing Million Air Terminal. A $1.5 million state grant will be used to assist the airport in building the new hangar and providing the additional infrastructure and runway access that will be required.
To no one's surprise, the company says its planned Eclipse 500 road trips are designed to allow potential customers to get "up close and personal" with the airplane. Presently, Eclipse says it remains on track for FAA certification during the first quarter of 2006, with first customer deliveries scheduled to begin shortly thereafter.
Additionally, Eclipse's scheduled November tour stops will be taking advantage of the two major aviation trade shows to be held in Florida that month: AOPA Expo, in Tampa, Nov. 3 through 5, and the NBAA Annual Meeting and Convention, in Orlando, Nov. 9 through 11.
The other locations, which will include a static display and reception from 4:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., are: Mercury Air Center, Dekalb Peachtree Airport (PDK), Nov. 12; Wilson Air, Memphis International Airport (MEM), Nov. 14; Million Air, Addison Airport (ADS), Nov. 16; Trajen FBO Network, Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (AUS), Nov. 18; and Piedmont Hawthorne, San Antonio International Airport (SAT), Nov. 20.
The events in Atlanta, Memphis, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio require an RSVP to Eclipse, so interested parties should register via the company's Web site. Additional tour dates will be announced in the future through that site.
Meanwhile, Eclipse also said it has chosen the Albany (N.Y.) International Airport (ALB) as the site for its new northeast factory service center. The to-be-built state-of-the-art maintenance and service center is one of seven planned by the company; previously announced locations include Albuquerque, N.M., and Gainesville, Fla.
Construction of the Eclipse Aviation hangar at ALB is expected to begin in the spring of 2006, with completion later in the year. The facility will be built just south of the existing Million Air Terminal. A $1.5 million state grant will be used to assist the airport in building the new hangar and providing the additional infrastructure and runway access that will be required.
To no one's surprise, the company says its planned Eclipse 500 road trips are designed to allow potential customers to get "up close and personal" with the airplane. Presently, Eclipse says it remains on track for FAA certification during the first quarter of 2006, with first customer deliveries scheduled to begin shortly thereafter.
Additionally, Eclipse's scheduled November tour stops will be taking advantage of the two major aviation trade shows to be held in Florida that month: AOPA Expo, in Tampa, Nov. 3 through 5, and the NBAA Annual Meeting and Convention, in Orlando, Nov. 9 through 11.
The other locations, which will include a static display and reception from 4:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., are: Mercury Air Center, Dekalb Peachtree Airport (PDK), Nov. 12; Wilson Air, Memphis International Airport (MEM), Nov. 14; Million Air, Addison Airport (ADS), Nov. 16; Trajen FBO Network, Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (AUS), Nov. 18; and Piedmont Hawthorne, San Antonio International Airport (SAT), Nov. 20.
The events in Atlanta, Memphis, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio require an RSVP to Eclipse, so interested parties should register via the company's Web site. Additional tour dates will be announced in the future through that site.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cork
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check6, I quote you.
For the tour, Eclipse will take one of its prototypes, N506EA, to a series of seven cities during November. At those stops, the "FAA-conforming VLJ" will be on static display.
Good thats a mock-up then! I can only presume that its not the one that (hurumpf) landed two weeks ago without gear selected in the down position.
Not many people know about that (m caine).
All the same it will be good to see it in the flesh,so to speak
For the tour, Eclipse will take one of its prototypes, N506EA, to a series of seven cities during November. At those stops, the "FAA-conforming VLJ" will be on static display.
Good thats a mock-up then! I can only presume that its not the one that (hurumpf) landed two weeks ago without gear selected in the down position.
Not many people know about that (m caine).
All the same it will be good to see it in the flesh,so to speak
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LL, for the record, I have no association with the company, as I copied this from an aviation news article.
I believe when they say "static display" it will be flown in, but no demo flights will be conducted, but I could be wrong.
The "gear up" incident is no secret. I saw the news story in multiple aviation trade magazines. This was not a failure of the airplane, but a failure of the test pilot to put the gear down. The gear was in the trailing position (partly extended), so there was minimal damage other than to red faces.
Cheers,
Check 6
I believe when they say "static display" it will be flown in, but no demo flights will be conducted, but I could be wrong.
The "gear up" incident is no secret. I saw the news story in multiple aviation trade magazines. This was not a failure of the airplane, but a failure of the test pilot to put the gear down. The gear was in the trailing position (partly extended), so there was minimal damage other than to red faces.
Cheers,
Check 6
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cork
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check6.
Dont take offence, sorry if you took me wrong, I didnt mean to suggest you had any links with the company.
I also take your point that it is not a mockup.
With respect to the 'gear up' , certainly the test pilot appears to have accepted the rap for the event, although the incident is a little whiffy.
Dont take offence, sorry if you took me wrong, I didnt mean to suggest you had any links with the company.
I also take your point that it is not a mockup.
With respect to the 'gear up' , certainly the test pilot appears to have accepted the rap for the event, although the incident is a little whiffy.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LL, no offense at all taken. I just wanted to make it clear to all that I am trying to be objective and that my only interest is in their success.
I actually find their concept refreshing. They started with a "fresh sheet of paper" so this is new grounds for light jets.
One does wonder if the Test Pilot is "falling on his sword" for the team, of if he really screwed the pooch and did not put the gear down. I guess we will have to wait 5-10 years for the book.
Cheers, Check 6
I actually find their concept refreshing. They started with a "fresh sheet of paper" so this is new grounds for light jets.
One does wonder if the Test Pilot is "falling on his sword" for the team, of if he really screwed the pooch and did not put the gear down. I guess we will have to wait 5-10 years for the book.
Cheers, Check 6
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ole Dimbleby has been around for a while, and seen a few things in this fine sector of aviation in which we dwell, whether that be in the mercenary role or enthusiast or both.
The words "starting with a fresh sheet" make me just a little nervous. No let me re-phrase that, they give me the heebyjeebies.
It wont be the first time a test pilot will have taken the long walk in order that the project continues.
Words of caution to those who might be thinking of sinking a few bob into this lark. Let our gullable american cousins do it first, then wait about five years. If the insurance hasnt gone through the roof and the ATC restrictions are not too bad and most importantly of all, if you can resell the bugger for anything near what you paid for it, then go fer it
The words "starting with a fresh sheet" make me just a little nervous. No let me re-phrase that, they give me the heebyjeebies.
It wont be the first time a test pilot will have taken the long walk in order that the project continues.
Words of caution to those who might be thinking of sinking a few bob into this lark. Let our gullable american cousins do it first, then wait about five years. If the insurance hasnt gone through the roof and the ATC restrictions are not too bad and most importantly of all, if you can resell the bugger for anything near what you paid for it, then go fer it
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SEA (or better PAE)
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmm, too bad the guys who used to lead aviation are waiting for someone else to "bite the bullit" (i'm not an american, by the way).
Eclipse is a sound project and more or less on track. Loosing a promised engine is a big mishap for everyone and not a startup like them.
If (and I say if) they succeed this will be a very good sign others will follow.
they do break the envelope so far with some new technologies which they certified first (like for example stir welding).
I do not see any airline being capable of bashing someone especially if you are aware that big money is behind them. I do not see UA, LH, BA, AA capable of influencing FAA on ANY issue. Boeing yes but they have no interest in doing that.
As we can see FAA is getting ready for far more little and fast birds in the sky with setting new rules just to accomodate VLJs (and UAVs in the future).
Let's all wait and hope something will come out of Eclipse because without these type of trials no progress can be made.
So far they are the sanes project from all these aspiring VLJs.
Pricewise as someone mentioned they are already nearing their plateau. They will still be cheaper then Mustang and if you check comments comming from Cessna they do not think there is any overlapping on thier targeted market segments. We'll see in about two years if I was right.
Eclipse is a sound project and more or less on track. Loosing a promised engine is a big mishap for everyone and not a startup like them.
If (and I say if) they succeed this will be a very good sign others will follow.
they do break the envelope so far with some new technologies which they certified first (like for example stir welding).
I do not see any airline being capable of bashing someone especially if you are aware that big money is behind them. I do not see UA, LH, BA, AA capable of influencing FAA on ANY issue. Boeing yes but they have no interest in doing that.
As we can see FAA is getting ready for far more little and fast birds in the sky with setting new rules just to accomodate VLJs (and UAVs in the future).
Let's all wait and hope something will come out of Eclipse because without these type of trials no progress can be made.
So far they are the sanes project from all these aspiring VLJs.
Pricewise as someone mentioned they are already nearing their plateau. They will still be cheaper then Mustang and if you check comments comming from Cessna they do not think there is any overlapping on thier targeted market segments. We'll see in about two years if I was right.