No picture, I'm afraid, not even on the SAC website

Mighty Gem

I also flew a handful of sorties in XM 573 during 78/9 while she was on the ZAL fleet.

There are a number of pictures of her on Andy Leitch's excellent website: www.avrovulcan.org.uk/andy_leitch_vol2/index.htm

The 16Th (?) picture down even has a potted history of the jet.

I can commend the site to all who have an interest in the Vulcan

Flatus Veteranus,

Agreed. Did you know that Frank Bonfield's crew always deployed on Micky Finn with DJs? They would have been the best dressed crew in the POW camp.

DEFATO. Type 5 was the T4 Bombsighte Visually aimed attacks. The 2J of course was the NBS LL pop-up to 2,500 feet. Below SAM 2 and above the frag damage level for the unretarded 1,000lb - they said!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW Frank's Nav Radar is still at Strike and drops in here from time to time. He sussed my nom de plume.

Pontius Nav

Please give him my best regards when next you see him, and ask him to pass them on to the rest of the crew if he is still in contact. Being a relative newboy, I probably ousted the Co fom his seat to see how a really crack crew did it They had been part of the Giant Voice team, If I recall. It was quite an education. Everything very relaxed but a minimum of chatter. No first names, only crew positions used (which may have been due to my presence!). Frank, although quiet, was firm when needed. I believe the story about the DJs. I cannot remember their dispersal base, but they were a very social bunch on detachment.
Captaincy I thought was an odd phenomenon. There was one crew with a weak captain (good pilot but lacking personality) which was effectively being captained by the AEO. It worked OK so I let it alone!

Flatus - were you on 1 GSU by any chance? In fact - were any of the posters on this thread ex 1 GSU? If so PM me!

XM573. We flew it on your first Double Top sortie according to my log book, Hifiman.
Timelord - we must know you, which seat did you sit in?

Ray

I suspect he would have done the same job as me.

Initials ML perhaps?

allan907

1 GSU were far too grand for me. I was merely a Boss! Rgds ;)

Flatus Veteranus,

The dispersal was Manston. I do not have to pass one your regards as the AL has sussed your nom de plume and lurks here from time to time.

As for professionalism, I used to run the targetting quiz. As crews could do an hours worth of target study with 2 crew members it follows they could answer the quiz with just two as well. "I'm airframes" didn't wash.

In Frank's case they very rarely turned out with less than a five-man crew for TS.

Wouldn't we just love to fly one again.?

50+ RAY - Which seat did I sit in? Well, I seem to remember spending a lot of time in the one by the uckers board, and almost as much in the one by the window in the feeder. As for in the aircraft; "the Nav Radar is the one who turns a 4 engined transport into a weapon of war" Quiz for all, where was that slogan displayed?

50+RAY - Which seat did I sit in? Well, I seem to remember spending a lot of time in the one by the uckers board, and almost as much in the one by the window in the feeder.

As for the aircraft "The nav radar is he who turns a 4 engined transport into a weapon of war"

That's the trouble with being a Timelord, Deja vu




That's the trouble with being a Timelord, Deja vu

But only if you could wake the bugger up between fixes!

Draw overlay, find same responses on radar screen. Say "Go to Bomb, advise demand". Make all sorts of warlike noises whilst pilots use 50 thou map and stopwatch to get a decent score. Go back to sleep. Wake up when nudged by a Plotter too stupid to use TACAN for GPI fix. Go back to sleep. Wake up when jet lands, bull$hit rest of crew in pub about self-importance.....

The navigator radar is that member of aircrew that turns a four-engined transport into a weapon of war was at the Bomber Command Bombing School in Lindholme.

It was actually 'borrowed' as I believe it was originally attributed to bomb aimer and furthermore I believe of US origin, Army Air Corp most likely.

Jackinoko was asking about the ceiling of the Tornado. I posted the following there:

I take John Farley's point about aircraft performance and release to service.

On the Vulcan Mk 2 we had boming kit that could reach 60,000 feet agl. We had oxygen kit that was cleared to 56,000 feet until someone discovered aerodynamic suck.

We had crews that flew at over 60,000 feet but whether agl or sps I am not sure. What I do know is that the turn circle was 24 miles with 15 AOB.

The ISA was down at the bottom and the IMN up at the top. Thing is though this was in stable flight.

When it came to planning a long range cruise with a take-off weight of 190,000 lbs and ground temp of 35 C and unrestricted take-off power the ODM showed that the most economical profile was a max rate climb to 470 and cruise climb thereafter.

Brown Trousers Time!!!
 

Found this on the net:

Nasty Shock

I guess that that happened a lot.........

And if you want to see a Vulcan fly again, time to get your donation/pledge off to http://www.tvoc.co.uk/index2.htm !!

There are some 77638 views on this thread. How many of you have done anything to get 558 airborne again?

Glad to see that this is page 35 of the thread. A fine sqn was 35 - it was my first experience of the real RAF!

Edited - it's now 77666!

Milt & Temps

Tony Blackman is alive and well and resides in Hampshire UK and Florida during the hurricane closed season. When he is in UK I drink with him quite regularly.

He has some epic dits on displaying the Vulcan at Farnborough in the 50's. I believe he did a lot of test flying work on the wing modifications for the Vulcan.

I have posted this link to him so maybe he will get in touch with you or better still add one of his rich experiences to this thread.

Cheers

Wunper:ok:

My Grandad's cousin was a pilot of the Vulcan.
His name was Francis Clapp I think and he was killed after he kept the aircraft from crashing into a school in Belgium or Holland.
The story goes that he ordered the rest of the crew to get out of the stricken jet whilst he stayed in it.
It would be great to hear of more about him if anybody has further info about this. He grew up in Fleetwood Lancs.

Gaz.

Clapp rings a bell but I don't recall any crashes in Europe.

It would be great if you could have a dig. The facts may have been warped by family.

Gaz

Just to return this to the top, perhaps only briefly (following on from a query on the history forum) - some might recall that I offered to - well, I think it was be the thread archivist, with some notion of doing something in print to commemorate the V-Force (sorry, but two family bereavements and two serious illnesses, one for Mrs A distracted me from cracking on with this).

I'm meeting a publisher next month to discuss a variety of things. Is using this as the basis for a popular history something people would welcome? Although there was some initial enthusiasm, it seemed to die away, and then (as noted above) it dropped off my radar. Still happy to move on with this is there is sufficient interest in having a new set of recollections of the V-Force (PMs to establish my bona fides, etc more than welcome).

Sounds like a good idea to me. It was, after all, a very significant part of our heritage.

Archimedes,

Sorry to hear of your problems. But I was thinking of posting an enquiry asking how well this proposal of yours was going. So I for one would enjoy reading the results.

There have been several fascinacting threads. The Vulcan and Banana Bombers ones for a start, that could produce good books and/or dvds based on Ppruners memoirs, film, photos etc. If you have the enthusiasm to do the hard work, then I'm sure there will be a market for the end results.

Cheers, H

Archimedes, hope everything family-wise is on the upturn. Good wishes for the future.

I'm sure that if you wish to take to project forward there will be enough ex V people out there who would willingly contribute - me for one.

PM me for my background details and what you are looking for.

FJJP

Archimedes Sorry to hear of your bereavements.I don't think my Uncle (Tiny Matthews) is on the net but if you ever want me to contact I will do my best.He is living in B.C. now.

Beags Although not ex RAF(ex ARMY) because of Tiny I contribute as much as I can afford every 6 months.Do hope my contribution helps.Anything to see one fly again.Both Tiny's cousins worked at AvRoe's as telephonists and I remember going to the Christmas parties in the late '50's.

Gentlemen,
I was recently told about this forum,I have avidly read virtually every post. I had the pleasure and the privelege to have flown all three "Vs" on 199,18 and 57 Sqns. plus the Vulcan at A&AEE between 1957 and 1964. I have throughly enjoyed all the posts,brought back many happy memories.If I may add a small story.
We became quite concerned ,when despite being assured that new aircraft would be fitted with rear ejection seats,the bean counters decided otherwise.This resulted in an amendment to the startup checks on 57 Sqn. It was the AEOs responsibility to remove the seatpins of both pilots and stow in the stowage on the side of the seat,resulting in a change to the standard check of seatpins removed and stowed,to "Seatpins out,padlocks in,keys stowed at the back" at least in my crew! caused quite a bit of consternation flying with the occassional change of pilot:E :E

I wonder if the Tiny Matthews referred to in several posts was ex Merchant Navy? I had the next room at Honington and he brought back a small dinghy from leave,which he intended to revarnish.Being winter,he decided to do it in his room,unfortunately,he forgot to tell his batman,who on bringing his morning tea,ended up ass over tit in the bottom wondering what the hell had happened:confused:

Thanks for all the stories,I for one would love to buy the book.

Old Hairy

Definitely not Old Hairy tho think where he lives now has a large enough lake to play on.

TINY MATTHEWS
 

Just for the record, there is a picture in my 'V-Force' book of Tiny Matthews standing with Ted Flavell and the two crews sent to drop the first British atomic bombs at Maralinga. Not a plug as it out of print. Tiny helped me greatly at Marham. He was larger than life in all respects.

Archemedies, welcome back how things are better now.

There are now some useful additions that could be pulled into any book. There are two relevant articles in Air Power, one by the MA student into survivability of the V-force really from an air staff perspective. It is quite revealling what she found out from their airships papers and what Bomber Command actually did and didn;t tell them.

Then the most recent one has an article by Chris Finn that is also complimentary.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread Peter Hennessey's book, Secret State is also revealing if, in places, a little too focussed.

Finally the FOI might well enable a few more snippets to surface. I have one request in and a second is being formulated. However on Wednesday I was offered a radar photo from someone's loft. "They were Secret" I said. "I know" came the reply!!!!

Old Hairy

As you were at BD around the time could you enlighten me on the cause of a Vulcan crash near Andover in May 1963 - I think. I did have the aircraft number but seem to have misplaced it. The interest in it came from a Glider repair tycoon based on the side of the M4 who happened upon the crash site in a Thruxton Jackaroo just after it had happened and took some aerial photos. Found out I had flown the tin triangle around that time and asked me if I knew what happened.

Can you enlighten me. The aircraft was out of BD.

PN,

thanks for that.

ACW - XH535 crashed at Chute, nr Andover on 11/5/1964 (with four fatalities, sadly), and was with A&AEE at the time. Is this the one you're thinking of, perhaps?

Thanks, Mike - saved me from searching for the link about this that I knew I'd seen recently and then editing the above post accordingly!

Scampton '64 to '66 (what fun!)
 

I have only just come upon this thread - my God, 36+ pages of Vulcan memorobilia! I left St Athan in the middle of 1964 as a brand new LAC A Mech A (48th Entry) and was posted to Scampton, into the Base Servicing Hangar. Initially very boring, being the gopher :( However, the opportunity to move to E Dispersal as a Linie came along (as did my SAC badge). What fun - Blue steel fridge pack changes, canopy seal changes and other delights, outdoors in mid-winter and lots of Micks and Mickey Finns. My first winter Mickey Finn to Lossie was in a Whistling Tit flown by someone who thought it would be fun to do the trip at low level. We were all in para seats and 99% of us rapidly needed a sick-bag - except the guy sat opposite me who thought it was great fun. Ours was the last laugh (well, grimace), as at some point after we had emptied lthe previous night's NAAFi intake, he had some form of fit and we had get the Loadie to administer oxygen. The pilot then took pity on us and climbed up above the weather.

Night shift on the QRA pan at Lossie. Four beasties armed with Blue Steel and regular checks on the gyros etc needed, so no crafty kips - except the the Plods supposedly guarding the aircraft and their loads. One came into the dispersal hut and said that, as I had to be awake and out-and-about to keep an eye on the aircraft, he and his mates would kip down in the hut. 3.30am and four sleeping policemen get a rude awakening when I run in shouting "Intruders, intruders" and they stagger out, bleary eyed, waving their pistols. Ha - very satisfying.

I think it was after that exercise that we returned to Scampton in a Hastings, very shortly indeed after the terrible accident involving loss of life , due I think to a fatigue-failure - very worrying.

On one occasion I thought (in a panic) that I might obliterate Lincolnshire - on QRA I was using one of those diesel driven 'donkeys' to pull a set of air bottles up to recharge the rapid air and misjudged speed / closing distance and rammed the arm of the donkey into the nose of the Blue Steel - phew, no bang, Crew Chief didn't see it, so carry on with the job.

Another week on QRA - one Plod per pan and two (standing in front of aircraft on opposite pans) were alleviating their boredom by bouncing a golf ball between them. A rather too vigourous throw saw the ball bounce over the head of the other Plod and bingo - a hole in one, straight down the intake. A somewhat career-limiting moment for the pair of them as the aircraft had to be stood-down from QRA whilst a sooty was shoved down the intake to retrieve it - which he luckily did as it had not gone beyond the first set of blades.

I can still clearly see the 4-ship launch from Finningleys ORP at a B of B day. In the practice, ISTR that the first two of the four aircraft had 201 engines whilst the third had 301's. Sixteen Olympuses simultaneously starting and spooling up is quite an event from close range. As they rapidly pulled out onto the runway, I had to dive behind a Houtchin and watched in awe as they belted down the runway with the third aircraft struggling not to overtake his less powerful brethren. He was put in the number one position for the day itself.

I was only at Scampton until March 66 when I had to suffer the indignity of being forced to accept a posting to Seletar ;) Has anyone ever tried rigging the slat and flap system on a Twin Pioneer - guaranteed to result in madness.

Anyway, despite involvement over the years with lots of other wonderful aircraft, the Vulcan remains my only true love (aircraft-wise, that is).

As the Blue Steel was buried half in the bomb bay of the Vulcan, I wouldn't have thought that the 'Donkey' steering arm would have reached the nose of a Blue Steel, it would probably have done so under the Victor.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/ZH875/BS.bmp
Paul O'Gorman collection. ©Crown Copyright

What was the role of the AEO?? I remember sitting in the old comms trainer at Finningley in 1984 and being very impressed with the knobs & dials in there...seem to remember that was a mockup of the Vulcan AEO station???

thanks

1. Manage the a/c electrical system.
2. Operate the ECM equipment and work with the pilots to maximise the equipment's effect.
3. Read the check list.
4. Manage HF comms (and some secondary V/UHF).
5. Look after any crypto requirements.

Beags

And eat all the sandwiches (at least if you were like our AEO)

ACW

I used to give our AEO my in-flight choccy bar for his little daughter. She was very miffed when I went off on my ICC and her Mars Bar/Twix source suddenly dried up!

What a pleasure it was to have known the gentlemanly ways of the mid-70s V-force. People these days just wouldn't believe how great it was!

Amen to that, Beags - even with Voice Rotating Beacon on board!