Been out of touch lately, jolly hols and more computer trouble, so have only just caught up with matters Pprune. From my 1974 Rothmans programme, Thread the Needle was then called Swiss Roll. From the description the manoeuvres sound the same, except the leader ended up inverted. Can't be specific from personal experience, memory fading, and I never did any of the clever bits, only hung on grimly.
What I wanted to ask G-KEST was whether they did a proper box 4 slow roll in the Stampes, or if it was only possible with the greater power, and possibly more precise control response, with the Pitts. As No3, and the roll always being to the left, I have never really managed to figure out what I was doing in terms of control. Just as well perhaps! A sort of very tight negative G barrel roll, I think, and couldn't do it without someone to formate on I'm sure. I do remember thinking that the Old Warden boundary fence was looking a bit close as Manx rolled towards me during one of my early shows with the team. I think I only concentrated on the leader from then on! Halcyon Days indeed.

From the 1976 Rothmans programme, Thread needle and Swiss Roll are both separate manouveres. The Swiss Roll relates perefectly to G-KESTs description, whilst thread needle is another crossing and join up though both pairs appear to be line abreast.

Box slow roll in Stampes was included in the '72 programme, according to literature (Farnborough material)

This must really be the best thread have ever read on any forum, what a history lesson ! Thankyou to all involved, wish I had something of interest to add !....... more topics like this please !

Thanks Aileron Roll,

It all started with a simple query..............

Which brings me back to the Marlboro Aerobatic Team. Who were the personalities that have flown with them over the years? And what happened to them?

Phillip Meeson (obviously) now MD/CEO of Dart Group
Nigel Lamb - OFMC MD
Dick Manning - ????? Where did he go?
Phil Symmans - ??????

Any others I have forgotten?

I think Ian Peacock was with the team.

Brendan O'Brien and John Taylor also flew for Philip Meeson in the early days of the team with G-BDXZ and G-LOOP.

KZ8

Steve Privett (and Lee Proudfoot?) also flew with Nigel Lamb either with Marlboro or Toyota (?) - now display Fighter Collection and OFMC fighters resepctively...

I think Nigel still runs the Marlboro team as The Golden Dreams Team out in the far east.

Did a Dave Riley ever fly with the Rothmans?

SSD

Both Nigel Lamb and Lee Proudfoot must have the best jobs in aviation ! ..... some good profiles on these guys at www.ofmc.co.uk

If you goto Nigels profile there is a link to his website for The Golden Dreams team.

Tim,
During my time with the RAT's in 1971 we did several practices with axial slow rolls in box however, probably due to me, they all degenerated into horizontal bomb-bursts when all four of us got uncomfortable at the same moment. Three on the basis of self preservation and Manx on the basis of the money wasted in nugatory practice. I had the number 2 slot and it certainly felt like an inside/outside slow barrel roll to me however one had but a fleeting peripheral glimpse of anything other than lead for about 20 seconds. I rapidly developed the ability to s**t through the eye of a needle in some of the sessions. I suppose we must be the oldest RAT's around now. Tempus fugit.....!!!!
Trapper 69
www.tempest.ndo.co.uk

Many thanks,G-KEST, for your reply to my slow roll question. I only drove a Stampe a couple of times, and not in formation. Delightful, and would have liked more.
My contribution to the art of the horizontal PofW feathers was a solo effort during a show for a garden fete down Headcorn way. Having done our initial loop in box, us three would do a vic 3/4 bunt from 45degrees up pushing through to 45 degrees up again inverted, while the box man went and did his individual clever thing before rejoining us on the way down again. Half way through the bunt, I found myself getting rather close to the leader, and each time I did the instinctive thing, easing the stick away from him, I got closer! I'd forgotten it works that way while upside down. Bootful of escape direction rudder, few deep breaths, switching off smoke to make myself invisible, and able to join in again a couple of manoeuvres later. As you say, a bit twitchy at times, and I'm glad it happened there rather than at the Biggin show, or Farnborough, with all the experts watching.
Bit off subject, but thanks for your website link, and glad to hear you are still thrilling the crowds. Used to hear a lot about all that in your Barnstormer days, from Manx.
I saw a Steen Skybolt once when visiting Vivian Bellamy, of fond memory, down at Land End, built from a kit by the local car respray and repair chap; it must have been in 1976/7, and just wonder if it the same one. There can't br too many around.
Happy days; but these aren't bad either!

Tim,
Our Skybolt, G-KEST, was built in the USA by a guy called Alex Todd in the late 1970's. Impoted into the UK mid 1980's and severely bent in a precautionary landing due poor weather in the early 1990's. Bought from the insurers by two guys from Leicester named Kevin Eld And Steve Thursfield - hence KEST. I bought a one third share which provided the cash to initiate the extensive rebuild. Three other guys helped in a big way and got a 5% share each as a reward for their effots to be realised if and when the airplane is sold. Finished in 1997 and kept at Leicester. Has an IO-360 with Christen systems anf flies beautifully. A docile version of an S2A without the twitch but with less performance. OK to intermediate but no firther unless you want to go over the limits we have set along with the PFA. Burns 8 gallons an hour average mainly on aeros. A better way of converting hydrocarbon into sheer hedonistic pleasure I have yet to encounter.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
or, long ago, Rothmans Blue 2

Thanks G-KEST, not the same one, and I fully appreciate your remarks about converting hydrocarbons into enjoying yourself. I'm stuck with the ride on mower,which needs mending before each sortie, and an occasional slash of the paddocks with an old Fergie tractor. Used to get slightly aerobatic with the tractor, but more careful now. Keeps me amused in my approaching dotage, and this is a great place to do it.

Bon chance, Blue 3.

G-SOLO
 

As previously mentioned, the David Perrin S2S G-SOLO is still registered in the UK, although to a now defunct Company (Landitfast). Does anyone know of its whereabouts now? I know it was in the Netherlands during the 80's but can't track it beyond that.

TheAerosCo

Just when you thought this one was dead...

Whilst looking for something else I happened upon some air-to-air photographs that I took of the Rothmans Team when they were working up for the first season with the Pitts S-2As. I have yet to master the black — or in this case, black-and-white — art of posting pictures here, but if someone would care to act as host I'd be happy to share them. Likewise some rediscovered shots of the Marlboro Team when Nigel Lamb and Phil Symmans were the new boys.

Aerohack,

That would be excellent news if you could get some pics onto the thread.

z

See the Photo thread (sticky) for instructions about posting photographs.

Aerohack,

Be delighted to post them for you - email them to my office address and I will post them on the company website until I figure out how to upload to my own webspace... got 10mbs sitting there a-wasting, can't possibly think of better way of using it! I'll be there Saturday morning, got a fighter related magazine to prepare!

Best regards,

Treadders

Treadders: Will scan 'em and e-mail to you. Thanks.

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/...mans_Pitts.jpg


This photo is part of the APN archive and dates from the mid 70's. I seem to remember seeing a Pitts still wearing its Rothmans livery as late as 1986 at a display at Goodwood.

If my memory serves me correctly there was a short film made in the 70's called something like the 'Wind in the wires' narrated by the great James Mason which featued the Rothmans team. It was made in that wonderful colour film that they used before video tape came along.


Batchy.

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/...s_Pitts_II.jpg


I managed to find the old slide I took at Goodwood in 86, does anyone know who was the pilot.

Batchy.

I remember standing on the airfield at Compton Abbas in about 1970 when the RAT flew past in their Stampes. As they got to about the middle of the runway, but about 500 yards to one side, they pulled up into a loop and then carried on their way without changing heading

OK - here are Aerohack's excellent Rothmans and Marlboro photos: I'll leave him to provide the narrative!

1:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...Rothmans-1.jpg

2:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...Rothmans-2.jpg

3:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...Rothmans-3.jpg

4:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ph/Mboro-1.jpg

5:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ph/Mboro-2.jpg

6:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ph/Mboro-3.jpg

7:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ph/Mboro-4.jpg

8:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...igraph/zph.jpg

Batchy, Bob Mitchell was flying G-BADW in 1986. Probably Bob or Dai Heather-Hayes.

Great pictures.

KZ8

Thanks KZ8,

Was 1986 the end of the line for Rothmans sponsorship, I cant recall ever seeing the livery on anything after that Goodwood display in 1986.

Batchy.

Batchy,

I think 1983 would have been the last year that Rothmans sponsered the Pitts. By that time they were concentrating on the Pitts solo display flown by David Perrin in G-SOLO.

G-BADW was bought by the Aerospace Museum at Cosford in 1980 and statically displayed there with the Rothmans Stampe G-AWIW. A change of musuem policy meant that the aircraft were put up for sale in 1984.

Once sold, G-BADW was then brought up to airwothiness and flown for a couple of seasons from 1986 in Rothmans colours before the arrival of a sponsor dictated a repaint.

KZ8

Those pictures brought back memories of my childhood... Many thanks for posting them.
Fantastic thread too. I flew with John Jordan in his Steaman as an Air Cadet at a Branstormers do at Cranfield in the 80's. Fantastic bloke. I enjoyed those displays too. Shame they don't happen anymore. That sort of display is rare these days.
Many thanks one and all for the trip down memory lane.
OAW

Branstormers? Freudian slip or not, very appropriate considering Mr Jordan's family business. :ok:

Thanks for the further info KZ8, it seems strange that the Rothmans colours were retained when the aircraft was returned to flight after its stay at Cosford. I'm sure the sponsor would not let it happen just incase some 'incident' were to happen.

Orange arm Waver, I remember John Jordan displaying the stearman at Old Warden, on more than one occassion, has he retired from flying now, I seem to remember he was quite a good age in the late 80's.

At one show the Stearman carried German WWI markings a legacy of the Biggles Movie if I remember correctly.

Great display pilot and much missed on the circuit.

Batchy.

As a matter of interest, did John Jordan used to perform aerobatics in his Stearman?

Yes he did - if you've seen Channel 4's "Classic Aircraft" he does so in one episode... not sure how old he is now, but I believe he was playing rugby at 60!

And not only in the Stearman. He once showed me a photograph of himself inverted at very low level in a Vickers Warwick!

Simtech
Ooops:ok:

Batchy
He did the flying of the Stearman in that film... Lame story but love the flying in it. When I flew in it with him there were only three dials in the front cockpit, oil temp, oil pressure and one other that escapes me - it was an engine one. There was no intercom just a tap on the shoulder when it was my go and a tap when time to give her back. Only did a circuit of Cranfield and didn't keep the height very well but a memorable flight.
It was a fantastic machine and still had some of the film markings on her on that day.
He is indeed missed from the scene

Yak11 Fan
He really threw the Stearman around the sky during the displays...

OAW

Would I be right in saying that his Stearman is a 450hp R985 powered machine?
I was under the impression that the CAA took a dim view of the 450 Stearman performing aerobatics on the British register or did the rules change more recently? This is not intended to be a dig at the CAA or anyone else, I hope that someone can point me in the right direction for some guidance on this matter or let me know of any information on the 450 Stearman.

Many Thanks

Chris

Yak11 Fan

The CAA register G-INFO lists the engine as a PRATT & WHITNEY R-985-AN1. I've no idea what that relates to in HP as not into engine details.
Hope it helps in some way.
OAW

It has (and has always had since its arrival in the UK in 1961) a 450hp R-985 P&W Wasp Jnr — very common post-war conversion in the USA for cropdusting which also became a favourite mount of airshow performers. G-AROY was in single-seat cropduster configuration when John Jordan first imported it, and I fancy he may even have used it thus

I believe he dusted with it in the US and brought it back overhere... I saved an article from the Daily Telegraph magazine back in the 80's about the man and his machine. Will see if I can find it and let you know more next week.
OAW

OAW, quite correct, according to JJ on "Classic Aircraft" he dusted with it in the States, came back to the UK, then acquired the aircraft from his former employer... or something like that...

Apart form the inverted Warwick incident, two others stick in my memory: getting an award for landing dead stick in Spit after n engine failure - an unacknowledged consequence of flying it inverted for some considerable time! And if I recall he flew under the Orwell Bridge at Ipswich in the Stearman...

Ahhhhhh Aerohack. Methinks you identify yourself as a Grade 1 knitted anorak in this thread. That is NOT an insult...merely an observation.!!

Taildragger:

Guilty as charged, though never actually owned an anorak (knitted one wouldn't be much use, would it?). Just spent best part of a professional lifetime recording the passing aviation scene, and reached that time in it when I can recall with remarkable clarity events of 30 or more years ago, but not always what I did yesterday...