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Which wing is this?

Old 29th Jan 2023, 21:01
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According to some Jeppesen charts for 2006 that I've looked at, straight in landings on runway 17 are labelled 'not authorised' presumably because the threshold is displaced (by over 1300ft) due to the obstacles to the north of the airfield.
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 07:48
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Originally Posted by Sue VÍtements View Post
but you're assuming he stayed in his seat, which is probably true, but you never know, he might have been on a half empty flight and moved from seat to seat - side to side
or possibly ben standing in the space next to the door or the washrooms
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 08:06
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
According to some Jeppesen charts for 2006 that I've looked at, straight in landings on runway 17 are labelled 'not authorised' presumably because the threshold is displaced (by over 1300ft) due to the obstacles to the north of the airfield.
Indeed - but 'circle to land' approaches are certainly allowed.

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Old 30th Jan 2023, 08:51
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Seems the consensus is that it is likely a Starboard 727 wing tip, taken from a window seat, fairly forward of the (clean) wing,
and the airline in 1973 would be Dan Air.

No LE slats are down yet for the approach and landing.
The 727-100 had split lowering of the LED's; The 2 large outer LE slat sections lowered first when Flap 2 is selected,
then the inboard Krueger flaps lowered, including the other outer slat with Flap 5 IIRC.
Then these would remain out with any landing flap selected using up to Flap 40.
Some 727-100 airlines used only Flap 30 for landing, but no idea what Dan Air did.

It's not a 720B - As TCU points out that if it was we would see some pylons and engines in the window view.
We did have an idea it was also a Comet, which is credible too - Comets had curtains then BTW.
The OP mentions he went to Corfu on a Laker 1-11 too and shows us a photo.....

And many thanks for your kind comments Ladies and Gents - as you know charter and holiday airlines from this period is where for me it all started it.
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 09:12
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
Seems the consensus is that it is likely a Starboard 727 wing tip, taken from a window seat, fairly forward of the (clean) wing,
and the airline in 1973 would be Dan Air.

No LE slats are down yet for the approach and landing.
The 727-100 had split lowering of the LED's; The 2 large outer LE slat sections lowered first when Flap 2 is selected,
then the inboard Krueger flaps lowered, including the other outer slat with Flap 5 IIRC.
Then these would remain out with any landing flap selected using up to Flap 40.
Some 727-100 airlines used only Flap 30 for landing, but no idea what Dan Air did.

It's not a 720B - As TCU points out that if it was we would see some pylons and engines in the window view.
We did have an idea it was also a Comet, which is credible too - Comets had curtains then BTW.
The OP mentions he went to Corfu on a Laker 1-11 too and shows us a photo.....

And many thanks for your kind comments Ladies and Gents - as you know charter and holiday airlines from this period is where for me it all started it.
Yes, a 727 leading edge looks the most likely to me - ruled out just about every other likely candidate.
I think the Comet is excluded due to the lack of a fuel vent on the top of the wingtip (see small piccie attached).



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Old 30th Jan 2023, 19:33
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Another recovery day from my cold today, but I heard back from the guy with the Gatwick tower logs and he's only reached March 1973, with the implication he's had to stop and the next few months may not be forthcoming for some time, I've seen a lot of the tower logs, in the Surrey Archive, and they're fairly sparse anyway. You usually get type but not always, and almost never registration. 1973 isn't in that archive as far as I can remember.

But I think anyway there'd be one or two rotations maximum, and probably 1-11s and/or Comets. I doubt there'd be a smoking gun saying a Viscount or similar had been chartered because of a tech fault to a 1-11. So as a 727 certainly isn't ruled out, I'm going to view this as probably G-BAEF on the basis of other memories and circumstantial information, and put it into the "for further investigation" file.

The flight path is really not obvious, as we would have to have been flying south (regardless of where my Dad was, the photo does appear to be the leading edge and so must be heading south). Thanks for the info about the beacons and so on which I'll attempt to plot onto a map. It's also not impossible the sequence was wrong as the slides in general were jumbled. There's no time information at all of course anyway.

Does anyone know whether planes turn left or right after landing on 17 to return up the runway after landing? As we would have been seated with seatbelts fastened at the turn if the turn was to the right my father was certainly in the starboard window seat at that point, otherwise he was in the port seat. I can't think of any further clues or items to investigate, unless someone gets into a position to be able to photograph a 727 wing-tip from above (I have a few photos from underneath from the example in the museum of flight, but they're not very convincing). I might risk an email to Boeing actually.

And rog747 - I've also become fascinated in 1970s package tour air travel since starting this project, and I'm starting to collect related brochures which remain elusive but fascinating when you find one. I can see myself spending a portion of retirement doing a lot more research into this area. These brochures were a fixture in the parental magazine rack from Christmas onwards, and we'd browse through them excitedly - Intasun I think, Cosmos, Clarksons, and so on. But so ephemeral, I expect most were pitched once the holidays were over.

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Old 30th Jan 2023, 21:25
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DH106: sorry itís not your namesake in the photo, but a nice youtube of circling to RW17, although a lot wider (and OFDM-compliant) than we used to do it. 800ft over the island then 500ft over the harbour worked well, although you did lose sight of the runway so not strictly legalÖ

Bisonray: 737s and I think 727s too were captainís steering only, so the after-landing RW17 threshold turn would be to the right so the driver could see the edges.

Glad you feel better.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 07:40
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B727-200 plan view


What window would give the picture of the wing tip.



Last edited by aeromech3; 31st Jan 2023 at 08:03.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 09:17
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Wrong window shapes.
Wingtip vent shown is as per the Comet 4 at Farnborough; I've watched the venting many times on departures.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 09:36
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This is the best view of a 727 wingtip from above that I've managed to find (image is a mirrored Pan Am 727 shot, so as to be similar orientation to the original).
Note the deep set leading edge panels (slats), and the relative lengths of these spanwise, compared to the original.
Second image is a zoom in and comparison with the original.
I think this is a match - Boeing 727.






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Old 31st Jan 2023, 12:15
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I think we have a winner there, great piece of image detective work. Plenty of rows near the front where this sort of shot would be possible. Brilliant, thanks so much.

I still need to figure out the sequence, but noted there is a hold available to the east of the airport in more modern charts, so quite plausible it was flying south in that.

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Old 31st Jan 2023, 13:03
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Just to add, Bisonrav, that I only remember holding at the KRK (google earth 39 26 38 N 020 04 22 E) in the early eighties. There were no RNAV holds and no GAR VOR then.

Assuming your flight’s routing was TIGRA to KRK it looks like they were positioning right downwind for 35 before reaching the KRK. It was imperative to avoid Albanian airspace too!

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Old 31st Jan 2023, 14:48
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Originally Posted by thnarg View Post
Assuming your flightís routing was TIGRA to KRK it looks like they were positioning right downwind for 35 before reaching the KRK. It was imperative to avoid Albanian airspace too!
Perhaps a late runway change caused the routing seen in the photos - initial positioning downwind right for R35, followed by a change to R17 and then some visual manoeuvring for R17.
Building on that - maybe the 'standard arrival' presumed a R35 landing, and a switch to R17 could then be made visually 'in circuit' if the wind favoured R17?
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 16:42
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Nice piece of work by DH106
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 17:46
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Good to see the conundrum resolved! Well done folks... Must admit I'd never have thought of those panels as L/E devices!

Only flown on 727s twice including possibly the one in the photo as I did a trip from Munich to Gatters on G-BAFZ in 1986...
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 20:31
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Just struck me that the reason for the sequence of the first two photos, Lake Korrossion at the south of the island and the airport towards the north is that probably they were taken at the same time. Corfu is a small island so from that altitude my dad probably saw the lake in front and then probably swung to take the airport side on. The other photos are fine.

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Old 1st Feb 2023, 08:03
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Great fun !
The Comet, and BAC 1-11 were all very much in the first mix, and I did doubt the 727 in my very first post #21
but looking more closely at those large LE slats of the 727 were the thing that got me going on the 727 as the aircraft in the photo.

Condor DE (who had 7) and Transair Sweden TB (with 3 in the fleet) had both been flying their holiday 727-100s since the mid 1960's.

In 1973 both Dan Air DA and Hapag Lloyd HF were new to having the 727-100 for the IT market, both airlines having obtained secondhand examples from Japan.
Dan Air would take 5 and then have these modified with 2 extra rear exit doors to enable up to 154 passengers to be carried.
These would be based at LGW and MAN, but also flew from LTN BHX GLA MME NCL TXL and BOH gradually replacing the Comets on the longer routes.
DA would soon obtain 3 more without having the door mods that held 131 passengers which would often be based at Berlin TXL flying West German holidaymakers.
HF would also take 8 (some ex ANA TDA and JAL and one from Sabena)
No other holiday airlines modified their 727-100's with extra exit doors.
BMA and Britannia Airways both had considered the 727-100 early on as a future type and were close to placing orders.


Possibly the most prolific charter 727 seen from 1966 at LGW was the 727-11 of Wardair.
This 727 was used to 'sub' for other airlines whilst on down time at LGW or MAN, and flew me DBV-LGW on behalf of BCAL in August 1972.

The Pan Am 727-21's based at Berlin TXL for the IGS routes, were used at weekends for IT Med charters for West German holidaymakers.
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 08:28
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Never did catch up with Wardair's 727, my spotting days at Gatwick started in summer '74 but were rather infrequent.

When I go past on the train now and see myriad EasyJet, Ryan Air and NEX fins blandly obliterating the scenery, I do look back five decades with great fondness to Dan-Air, BIA, BCAL, Airtours, Laker, Monarch, Britannia, Tradewinds, IAS, et al, with great fondness
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 08:59
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And a nostalgic shout out to the American Flyers 727 - aka "Smokey Joe" whose impressive sooty exhausts would give Greta a fainting fit

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Old 1st Feb 2023, 10:39
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Good to see the conundrum resolved! Well done folks... Must admit I'd never have thought of those panels as L/E devices!
Though very disappointing that nobody has managed to identify the seat row the photo was taken from.

Only flown on 727s twice including possibly the one in the photo as I did a trip from Munich to Gatters on G-BAFZ in 1986...
Similarly few trips here, just one short hop to Paris on an AF 727, plus a Pan Am one MIA-MEX on a business trip - PA's didn't have Business class, so I had to slum it in First ...
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