Which wing is this?
Yes this is lots of fun.
If it is a comet then it's KT or DA
Both channel Airways and of course Olympic Airways had ceased flying them by 1972.
This is 1973.
I had just started my career in the holiday airline business the year before and was very involved in charter flight schedules and Monarch Airlines with their britannia's from what I recalled didn't go to Corfu but the Boeing 720b did as did BEA air tours 707s as well and Lakers
at that time no other airlines Britannia or vanguards were going to Corfu.
on the odd occasion Invicta vanguards flew for charter Airlines on a subbing basis down to the Mediterranean
If it is a comet then it's KT or DA
Both channel Airways and of course Olympic Airways had ceased flying them by 1972.
This is 1973.
I had just started my career in the holiday airline business the year before and was very involved in charter flight schedules and Monarch Airlines with their britannia's from what I recalled didn't go to Corfu but the Boeing 720b did as did BEA air tours 707s as well and Lakers
at that time no other airlines Britannia or vanguards were going to Corfu.
on the odd occasion Invicta vanguards flew for charter Airlines on a subbing basis down to the Mediterranean
I think there's too much of whatever-it-is visible for it to be a wingtip from a four-engined turboprop with no evidence of a prop.
Apart from which, the OP seems pretty sure it was a jet.
Apart from which, the OP seems pretty sure it was a jet.
If you look at the Vanguards you'll find there's no way you can look downwards at the Vanguard tailplane from the cabin windows; they're well below the tailplane.
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Sorry for going AWOL, I went down with a nasty cold during the afternoon and have only just lemsip maxed myself back into life.
I can't honestly say it wasn't a prop plane of some sort. You kind of accumulate a bundle of memories over time that don't necessarily connect up and I have some thing in my head that says Viscount was a possible type I flew on. But as a rule the fact of planes being jets was built into the tour offer, and I have relatively consistent memories of these early flights. And because my feeling was that we flew Gatwick with KT in a comment on the first trip out (in 1971) and subsequently from Manchester, and the records from Manchester are superb, with only 727-46 G-BAEF flying on this route on 21st May 1973, I think I just had a bit of a premature QED. There's a lot about this that still makes limited sense, and one part is which direction the plane was flying in the "tip" photo and the direction of the approach. I'm on the fence about whether it's a tail fin or a wingtip, and I'm really not concerned about the apparent shape of the window as there may have been some distortion due to the lens or the direction my dad was shooting.
1-11s were a very common type on the route, with various tricks to eke out the range,, and I'd flown on one the preceding year (absolutely no question about this, the whole wing is visible, see below). We chose the packages based on the hotel we liked, which was the Messonghi beach hotel, and I suspect that if that had meant a drive to Gatwick, we'd have done a drive. So I'm checking what flew out of Gatwick too now, where the records aren't nearly as good. I don't believe we ever flew from Luton.
I don't seem to have a working "like" button, but very grateful for everyone who's posted, and I would be hammering on it. When I have new information I'll post it, but please continue with the speculative ideas.
The Alps from what I believe was a Laker 1-11 in May 1972
I can't honestly say it wasn't a prop plane of some sort. You kind of accumulate a bundle of memories over time that don't necessarily connect up and I have some thing in my head that says Viscount was a possible type I flew on. But as a rule the fact of planes being jets was built into the tour offer, and I have relatively consistent memories of these early flights. And because my feeling was that we flew Gatwick with KT in a comment on the first trip out (in 1971) and subsequently from Manchester, and the records from Manchester are superb, with only 727-46 G-BAEF flying on this route on 21st May 1973, I think I just had a bit of a premature QED. There's a lot about this that still makes limited sense, and one part is which direction the plane was flying in the "tip" photo and the direction of the approach. I'm on the fence about whether it's a tail fin or a wingtip, and I'm really not concerned about the apparent shape of the window as there may have been some distortion due to the lens or the direction my dad was shooting.
1-11s were a very common type on the route, with various tricks to eke out the range,, and I'd flown on one the preceding year (absolutely no question about this, the whole wing is visible, see below). We chose the packages based on the hotel we liked, which was the Messonghi beach hotel, and I suspect that if that had meant a drive to Gatwick, we'd have done a drive. So I'm checking what flew out of Gatwick too now, where the records aren't nearly as good. I don't believe we ever flew from Luton.
I don't seem to have a working "like" button, but very grateful for everyone who's posted, and I would be hammering on it. When I have new information I'll post it, but please continue with the speculative ideas.
The Alps from what I believe was a Laker 1-11 in May 1972
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The picture sure looks like it was taken with a wide-angle lens.
However, even with the widest-angle lens, you can't see the top of a tailplane that is above the windows.
This should rule out, e.g., the Comet and the Vanguard.
Note that the window isn't completely round. The "back to the east" picture shows a flat lower edge.
Trident wingtip? Tristar tailplane?
Only wild guesses...
However, even with the widest-angle lens, you can't see the top of a tailplane that is above the windows.
This should rule out, e.g., the Comet and the Vanguard.
Note that the window isn't completely round. The "back to the east" picture shows a flat lower edge.
Trident wingtip? Tristar tailplane?
Only wild guesses...
I think it is more likely a Britannia tailplane; there is no `external horn balance`,the elevators and ailerons are servo-tabbed,and there is an outer portion of the LE of the tailplane that `appears` to be somewhat discoloured,probably by the engine exhaust/dust.It also appears to have a more symmetrical aerofoil than the 1-11,and is low-set on the fuselage..
You could go to Duxford or Kemble to check.....
You could go to Duxford or Kemble to check.....
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Corfu airport early charter flights
I think it is more likely a Britannia tailplane; there is no `external horn balance`,the elevators and ailerons are servo-tabbed,and there is an outer portion of the LE of the tailplane that `appears` to be somewhat discoloured,probably by the engine exhaust/dust.It also appears to have a more symmetrical aerofoil than the 1-11,and is low-set on the fuselage...You could go to Duxford or Kemble to check.....
The new International Terminal opened in 1972.
In 1973 the island was still fairly 'new' to the holiday brochures; just appearing for the mass package market.
Here's the thing though chaps;
No Bristol Britannia's in 1973 were going to Corfu from LGW and MAN.
Nor were any other package holiday Prop Jets going down to CFU.
Viscounts were still around until the very early 1970's flying Med IT charters for some Tour Operators from the UK regionals, using BKS, Channel AW, BMA, and Cambrian,
operating from BRS/CWL LPL CDD SEN MME LBA.
Caledonian and Donaldson had still used their Brits on holiday IT's, but Greece was not a usual destination, and by this time they had stopped flying them.
The only airline still flying the Britannia for IT package holidays in 1973 was Monarch (For Cosmos) and from what I recall a Brit was never put on that route for Cosmos, nor flying there for another Tour Company.
IF Monarch ever sent one to CFU (in lieu of a 720B) then it is a very remote possibility, but it would have been a LTN flight, or possibly from BHX.
Incidentally I do not recollect Cosmos Holidays ever featuring Corfu holidays that early on, although the 720B's had arrived in 1971.
(The PPRuNe LTN History MayFly archives might tell us more of those early Monarch 720B movements)
I don't even recall Britannia Airways ever flew their Brits to Corfu for Skytours in the 1960's, not until they got the 737's.
(I will check with old Britannia AW crew I know)
Horizon and 4S were going to Corfu with 1-11 Jets from 1969 - BUA BAC 1-11 500's,
and Laker 1-11's flew for Lord Bros from LGW, and for Arrowsmith from MAN.
Clarksons had been using Dan Air Comets also from 1969 from LTN and MAN, and began using the B727 in 1973.
MATO were flying from BHX using Dan Air.
Cambrian Airways started flying to CFU in 1971 from LPL and BRS/CWL with their 1-11's for Hourmont Travel, then as Cambrian Air Holidays.
BEA's Enterprise and Flair from 1970 used KT Comets to Corfu from LGW and MAN, then their 707's came a year later in 1971.
I first went to Corfu in 1973 and it was a BEA Airtours 707 on an Olympic Holidays charter.
Olympic Holidays were perhaps the first specialist Greek Tour Operator (still going today)
This is a treat -
Later -
Vic Fatah set up Sunmed 'Go Greek' who were a Greek holidays specialist Tour Operator in 1970 running package holidays to the Greek Islands using charter flights, considered most exotic at the time, as were the aforementioned Olympic Holidays also doing.
Olympic Airways also had own in-house tour operator Allsun Holidays, and flew their own night summer Charter flights in the early 1970's from LHR to CFU, RHO, HER and also to ATH using B707/720B and B727, and shared these flights with some other Tour Operators.
Allsun also used the BEA Trident Scheduled night flights from LHR to CFU, RHO and HER.
Are we any closer to 'Which wing is this 1973?'
Corfu Airport of course, is infamous for the BCAL BAC 1-11 500 RTO and over run accident into Mouse Island Lagoon the summer before in 1972,
and Cambrian Airways BAC 1-11 skipper Cedric Flood recalls :
Our own BAC 1-11 Corfu incident was probably closest to a disaster experienced by Captain Cedric Flood while taking off from Corfu bound for Liverpool, in the summer of 1971.
An engine failed just as the aircraft was lifting off, and the climb-out performance was greatly affected by the combination of high ambient air temperature, a full flight, and heavy take-off weight.
In fact the aircraft showed such little inclination to climb at all until the undercarriage doors had closed following retraction.
Even then, the rate of climb was minimal, but displaying considerable skill Cedric eased the aircraft around the circuit and successfully landed at a weight considerably in excess of the normal maximum permissible.
Gnome de PPRuNe
It's couldn't be a Caravelle? Might anyone have subleased one?
As pointed out earlier in the thread, the window is quite flat at the bottom, might fit quite well with the Caravelle's curved triangles?
As pointed out earlier in the thread, the window is quite flat at the bottom, might fit quite well with the Caravelle's curved triangles?
We only really saw SAM and Aviaco Caravelles on IT charters back then. Sterling and Transavia often popped in to LGW MAN and LTN.
Having looked at a lot of 727 wing tip photos this morning my money is back on the 727.
727 wing
Here is a Dan Air BAC 1-11 500 wing just to throw a spanner in the works !
DA BAC 1-11 500
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I want a "like" button so bad right now. That's an amazing set of photos and reflections, thanks so much for that rog747.
The neatest solution to this would be that the picture is of a trailing edge of a 727 wing. It seems possible that you could get a shot from one of the rear rows with the tip showing on a 727-47, and avoiding the engine. But against that there is no static dispersion (though maybe not enough resolution in the photo to see that). If it's the leading edge, the aircraft is flying south, and that's difficult to fit with the sequence of the slides. I am going to go back and double check the slide matrix numbers, but as I understand the approach it tended to make landfall from the west over Lake Korrission and then turned left either to land on 35 in a northerly direction directly, or up to the north and turned round for 17 as was certainly the case for this landing.
What would be very informative now would be to find out what the standard approaches to Corfu were.
The neatest solution to this would be that the picture is of a trailing edge of a 727 wing. It seems possible that you could get a shot from one of the rear rows with the tip showing on a 727-47, and avoiding the engine. But against that there is no static dispersion (though maybe not enough resolution in the photo to see that). If it's the leading edge, the aircraft is flying south, and that's difficult to fit with the sequence of the slides. I am going to go back and double check the slide matrix numbers, but as I understand the approach it tended to make landfall from the west over Lake Korrission and then turned left either to land on 35 in a northerly direction directly, or up to the north and turned round for 17 as was certainly the case for this landing.
What would be very informative now would be to find out what the standard approaches to Corfu were.
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Please may I also thank Rog747 very much for all the wonderful contributions over the years. We probably queued together for breakfast in Little Eddies once…
I only go back to the early ‘80s but the arrival then was from Brindisi FIR (with no radar) boundary at TIGRA direct to the KRK VOR then teardrop to leave it heading north across the bay for RW35 or circle to RW17, which was always fun in the October storms. Obviously join visually high righthand downwind if ATC, traffic and weather allowed, which this might have been. Brindisi and then Kerkira radars and also the GAR VOR on the airport appeared in the ‘90s I think, then RNAV approaches this century.
Assuming non-stop UK-CFU I’m also starting to favour a 1-11 although the wing panelling and leading edges look different. Any photo experts able to play with the image?
Let the fun continue!
I only go back to the early ‘80s but the arrival then was from Brindisi FIR (with no radar) boundary at TIGRA direct to the KRK VOR then teardrop to leave it heading north across the bay for RW35 or circle to RW17, which was always fun in the October storms. Obviously join visually high righthand downwind if ATC, traffic and weather allowed, which this might have been. Brindisi and then Kerkira radars and also the GAR VOR on the airport appeared in the ‘90s I think, then RNAV approaches this century.
Assuming non-stop UK-CFU I’m also starting to favour a 1-11 although the wing panelling and leading edges look different. Any photo experts able to play with the image?
Let the fun continue!
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Definitely looks like a leading edge shot to me - if it was a trailing edge, we'd be looking at the outboard portion of the aileron tapering to a fairly sharpe point, probably with some wicks somewhere.
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Boeing 720 wing in flight.....the thick leading edge looks comparable....but why is there no engine/nacelle visible as the 720 cabin is stubby ahead of the wing and it would surely be in shot?
It's not a tailplane.
If OP's supposed flight path is accurate, we are looking west as the aircraft flies north. Thus it's the port wingtip we are looking at.
But I don't have any idea which aircraft it is.
But I don't have any idea which aircraft it is.
